Where the electricity comes from.

Nov 11, 2009
12,950
2,616
40,935
If you're interested in seeing what the source of our electicity is then you may find this website interesting.

Surprising how much is being generated by closed cycle gas turbines, just goes to show why electric have to rise in line with gas. Today in Wiltshire is a NoNo for wind or solar, a distinct lack of both ☹ not at all good for my emulsioning.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Jcloughie
Jun 16, 2020
2,018
627
1,935
If you're interested in seeing what the source of our electicity is then you may find this website interesting.

Interesting reading, thanks.

John
Surprising how much is being generated by closed cycle gas turbines, just goes to show why electric have to rise in line with gas. Today in Wiltshire is a NoNo for wind or solar, a distinct lack of both ☹ not at all good for my emulsioning.
I thought that too

After certain a newspaper (DM), claimed we are at the mercy of Putin, Grant Shapps announced we only have 3% of our gas from Russia. Still massively rising though.

My energy bill last year was about £1200. Octopus offered me a fixed rate that would have worked out at about £1400. I did not respond quick enough and when I did nearer to the end of my fixed term. That had gone up to £1850. I rejected it and chose to go flexible. Is that a mistake, time will tell.


John
 
Nov 11, 2009
12,950
2,616
40,935
Interesting reading, thanks.

John


I thought that too

After certain a newspaper (DM), claimed we are at the mercy of Putin, Grant Shapps announced we only have 3% of our gas from Russia. Still massively rising though.

My energy bill last year was about £1200. Octopus offered me a fixed rate that would have worked out at about £1400. I did not respond quick enough and when I did nearer to the end of my fixed term. That had gone up to £1850. I rejected it and chose to go flexible. Is that a mistake, time will tell.


John
Difficult times for those who have come to the end of their contract, or whose supplier has stopped trading. We took out earlier this year a fixed price tariff to spring 2023. The rate was slightly more expensive than the standard variable tariff and at the time the estimate was that the fixed price tariff to 2023 would cost us about £100 extra. Very glad we made that decision and hopefully sanity will return by the time that contract ends. We pay around £850 -950 per year for energy. The house is exceptionally well insulated and new windows are to be fitted before Christmas, which will all help.
 
Jun 16, 2020
2,018
627
1,935
Difficult times for those who have come to the end of their contract, or whose supplier has stopped trading. We took out earlier this year a fixed price tariff to spring 2023. The rate was slightly more expensive than the standard variable tariff and at the time the estimate was that the fixed price tariff to 2023 would cost us about £100 extra. Very glad we made that decision and hopefully sanity will return by the time that contract ends. We pay around £850 -950 per year for energy. The house is exceptionally well insulated and new windows are to be fitted before Christmas, which will all help.
I do worry for those who are struggling to meet their bills at this time. Though a very long way from being wealthy, we can cope with this. You do well with you energy bills. Our house is as well insulated as I can reasonably achieve. Loft has masses, windows have just had new seals, but the walls are poor. It’s a 1970 construction, therefore very poor. (I know as I was involved in house building at that time ad quality control was virtually non existent). Also building regulations not as stringent. I installed Urea-formaldehyde cavity insulation when it was popular. It made a massive improvement. I would love now to have it extracted and replaced with an up to date alternative. But extraction is double the price of new installation. Nevertheless. It might now be worthwhile with the rising energy costs.

John
 
Nov 11, 2009
12,950
2,616
40,935
I do worry for those who are struggling to meet their bills at this time. Though a very long way from being wealthy, we can cope with this. You do well with you energy bills. Our house is as well insulated as I can reasonably achieve. Loft has masses, windows have just had new seals, but the walls are poor. It’s a 1970 construction, therefore very poor. (I know as I was involved in house building at that time ad quality control was virtually non existent). Also building regulations not as stringent. I installed Urea-formaldehyde cavity insulation when it was popular. It made a massive improvement. I would love now to have it extracted and replaced with an up to date alternative. But extraction is double the price of new installation. Nevertheless. It might now be worthwhile with the rising energy costs.

John
Ours was built mid 80s when regulations for insulation were being changed. But the builders put in the bare minimum into the cavity and loft fortunately the people we bought it from had had the mini spheres insulation blown into the cavity and a lot of roof insulation too. So when we moved in we had the roof off and new breathable membrane installed. All exterior doors were changed as they were mid 80s originals. The windows are all double glazed but again mid 80s so new ones are on order. As well as some improvement in insulation they will be more secure too. We are pretty frugal with energy and the house definitely helps us to keep bills down.
 
Sep 7, 2020
420
191
735
. We pay around £850 -950 per year for energy.
That's a good figure and does require some context so.....

If you think I'm being too nosey please don't answer but is this for all your energy sources i.e Electric, Gas, Oil, Coal, Wood, Scotch - and since you have a caravan are you away for quite a number of weeks throughout the year?

Just interested that's all :)
 

Damian

Moderator
Mar 14, 2005
7,430
838
25,935
Our house was built in 1912 and as was the way then we have huge windows, high ceilings and quite large rooms, and of course no insulation.
I have had cavity wall insulation put in and the loft now has a lot of insulation installed.
The cavity wall insulation made a big difference
in keeping the heat in, as did the loft insulation.
I have recently had all the windows replaced with new and that has helped as well.
The best thing I have had fitted is solar water heating as when the sun shines it produces abundant hot water, and even in winter it absorbs some heat which pre warms the hot water tank so the boiler has less to do to bring the temp up.
Normally I can switch off the boiler from may to november as the sun takes care of all the hot water we need,plus some.
I have explored the possibility of somehow linking the solar to the central heating side as well, but it is complicated and very expensive to do.
Even with everything we have done our fuel bills are around £1000 but as we are home most of the time we tend to be quite heavy on fuel.
Another thing that made a big difference was changing all the light bulbs to LED's.
 
  • Like
Reactions: otherclive
Nov 11, 2009
12,950
2,616
40,935
The reason we sold the caravan earlier is that since summer 2018 the trips out were few and short. And with family responsibilities and lockdowns we haven’t been far. The bill is just for gas and electric. We have gas central heating with a relatively new condensing boiler, and new convector radiators. A supplementary gas fire in the lounge. Until this summer we had a Rangemaster with gas hobs and electric ovens. Our hot water and showers etc is from the boiler. Hot water is only on two hours per day. Boiler we have under manual control, with a Hive thermostat that in winter lives in the lounge. All bar two radiators have TRVs. In winter we close the blinds and curtains, most rooms have both. Have never put the ensuite radiator on apart from testing it when we moved into here in April 2018. Our Hive tells us that on average in winter we are 1-1.5 deg C below the regional average. The house we moved from had similar bills. Both houses are reasonable sized four beds, without internal garages. But here even the garage roof has slab insulation in the roof. Did that when we had the main house roof off last year to install breathable membrane. Evenings in the lounge the hive is set to 19.5 degrees with turn off around 2130. All lighting is LED, and evening in the lounge we tend to have two lights on at 10 watts total.

My Dad insulated our houses using all sorts of materials, and even in our student days I would put that thermo shrinking plastic on the windows, and since owning our own places we’ve tended to insulate without being obsessive, even an early 1800s cottage in Dartmoor.

For several years now we have had fixed rate contracts with BG. And we don’t have a smart meter as fitting was cancelled twice so I’m waiting till spring before trying again. BG are putting us under pressure as without a smart meter I can’t see monthly usage and year on year comparisons. They’ve withdrawn the feature. So I just ring them up and request a current status bill and strangely they send it by post rather than email.

Unkike a lady interviewed on tv about energy prices who complained that she was having to wear a cardigan because it was getting so expensive we dress for the seasons indoors or out and duvets are changed depending on the season. Even the dogs May get fleece jackets on in very cold weather given they are both 14.5 years old.

Yours obsessively

OC
 
Jun 16, 2020
2,018
627
1,935
Evenings in the lounge the hive is set to 19.5 degrees with turn off around 2130.

Yours obsessively

OC
That‘s a big difference to us. Ours is set to 23 degrees until 23:00 and in very cold weather runs 24/7 but at various temperatures and times for every room. We do like to be warm. Even in summer, the Netatmo system controls room and rad stats, they are on but set to 16 degrees. So don’t actually come to life. Each room is iPad controlled, and I can look at the temperature fluctuations and which rad calls for heat through time.

It reports that we are slightly below average energy usage for our area. (I don’t trust that as I can’t see where the data comes from).

I am a bit lost with you saying that your hot water is on for 2 hours per day with a combi boiler, can you expand on that, is it a combi with storage?

John
 
Sep 7, 2020
420
191
735
Thanks for the context of your replies.

We built our house about 12 years back to Passive House Standards. One of the downfalls of living on Skye or the Highlands for that matter is that there is no Natural Gas supply so energy for living has to come from either Electricity, LPG, Oil, Coal or Wood - with the odd house using solar or wind.

We have a high degree of insulation, triple glazed windows and very low air permeability - no air leaks. We have about 150m2 floor space, open plan and about 385m3 by volume. Just the two of us at home most of the time although for many years we would fly south for a couple of winter months but recently that's not been possible.

We took a leap of faith and did not install a heating system, just a wood burning stove, a Mechanical Heat Recovery and Ventilation system and a hot water only Solar Panel. Electric for everything else except the cooker hob which is propane gas. Low energy appliances where possible.

Energy bills for a full 12 months occupation are about £850 per year for Electric, then there's another £400 in Wood and about £50 for the Gas hob via propane bottle.

In actual terms we use about 4200Kwh per year. About 4m3 of hardwood, About 1 and a bit 19kg propane gas bottles.

Everyones figures are interesting but it needs to be understood what our expectations are and how we live in our homes. By comparison some of our neighbours bills are over 3 times ours.
 
May 2, 2020
208
61
635
That‘s a big difference to us. Ours is set to 23 degrees until 23:00 and in very cold weather runs 24/7 but at various temperatures and times for every room. We do like to be warm. Even in summer, the Netatmo system controls room and rad stats, they are on but set to 16 degrees. So don’t actually come to life. Each room is iPad controlled, and I can look at the temperature fluctuations and which rad calls for heat through time.

It reports that we are slightly below average energy usage for our area. (I don’t trust that as I can’t see where the data comes from).

I am a bit lost with you saying that your hot water is on for 2 hours per day with a combi boiler, can you expand on that, is it a combi with storage?

John
Hi John
Otherclive will have a condensing system boiler that will heat stored water via controls a condensing combi heats water on demand.

Gra
 
Nov 11, 2009
12,950
2,616
40,935
That‘s a big difference to us. Ours is set to 23 degrees until 23:00 and in very cold weather runs 24/7 but at various temperatures and times for every room. We do like to be warm. Even in summer, the Netatmo system controls room and rad stats, they are on but set to 16 degrees. So don’t actually come to life. Each room is iPad controlled, and I can look at the temperature fluctuations and which rad calls for heat through time.

It reports that we are slightly below average energy usage for our area. (I don’t trust that as I can’t see where the data comes from).

I am a bit lost with you saying that your hot water is on for 2 hours per day with a combi boiler, can you expand on that, is it a combi with storage?

John
I said “ condensing boiler”. It’s a relatively new Worcester Bosch sits in the kitchen on the wall.
Thanks for the context of your replies.

We built our house about 12 years back to Passive House Standards. One of the downfalls of living on Skye or the Highlands for that matter is that there is no Natural Gas supply so energy for living has to come from either Electricity, LPG, Oil, Coal or Wood - with the odd house using solar or wind.

We have a high degree of insulation, triple glazed windows and very low air permeability - no air leaks. We have about 150m2 floor space, open plan and about 385m3 by volume. Just the two of us at home most of the time although for many years we would fly south for a couple of winter months but recently that's not been possible.

We took a leap of faith and did not install a heating system, just a wood burning stove, a Mechanical Heat Recovery and Ventilation system and a hot water only Solar Panel. Electric for everything else except the cooker hob which is propane gas. Low energy appliances where possible.

Energy bills for a full 12 months occupation are about £850 per year for Electric, then there's another £400 in Wood and about £50 for the Gas hob via propane bottle.

In actual terms we use about 4200Kwh per year. About 4m3 of hardwood, About 1 and a bit 19kg propane gas bottles.

Everyones figures are interesting but it needs to be understood what our expectations are and how we live in our homes. By comparison some of our neighbours bills are over 3 times ours.
That’s an amazingly low energy bill for where you live and especially with open plan. Just goes to show what can be achieved with good insulation and a recovery system. Even in our cottage in Dartmoor the coal/ wood fire would burn pretty well continuously through winter. As well as heating it provided hot water, and over a time the whole end wall of the house from ground to first floor warmed up giving nice warmth to the main bedroom. The chimney was a large one though. At the other end of the house we got warmth from our neighbours fire heating the end walls between us.

Looking at new houses I’m surprised at the lack of solar panels fir those properties that would benefit from them. And insulation standards must have further to go.
 
Jun 16, 2020
2,018
627
1,935
I said “ condensing boiler”. It’s a relatively new Worcester Bosch sits in the kitchen on the wall.

Understood, I thought all condensing are combi, but that some held a reservoir to speed up delivery. I assume therefore that you still have a storage cylinder. We chose to have ours removed to give some useable space. Initial delivery of hot water is slow though, even though the dead leg to the kitchen sink is only about 2 metres.

John
 
Last edited:
Jun 16, 2020
2,018
627
1,935
Thanks for the context of your replies.

We built our house about 12 years back to Passive House Standards. One of the downfalls of living on Skye or the Highlands for that matter is that there is no Natural Gas supply so energy for living has to come from either Electricity, LPG, Oil, Coal or Wood - with the odd house using solar or wind.

We have a high degree of insulation, triple glazed windows and very low air permeability - no air leaks. We have about 150m2 floor space, open plan and about 385m3 by volume. Just the two of us at home most of the time although for many years we would fly south for a couple of winter months but recently that's not been possible.

We took a leap of faith and did not install a heating system, just a wood burning stove, a Mechanical Heat Recovery and Ventilation system and a hot water only Solar Panel. Electric for everything else except the cooker hob which is propane gas. Low energy appliances where possible.

Energy bills for a full 12 months occupation are about £850 per year for Electric, then there's another £400 in Wood and about £50 for the Gas hob via propane bottle.

In actual terms we use about 4200Kwh per year. About 4m3 of hardwood, About 1 and a bit 19kg propane gas bottles.

Everyones figures are interesting but it needs to be understood what our expectations are and how we live in our homes. By comparison some of our neighbours bills are over 3 times ours.
Fantastic and a great plan. Sounds very comfy. Comparatively new regs on permeability have made a big difference and you look like you are ahead of the trend. Scottish regs have always been more stringent on insulation than the rest of the UK.

My house leaks like a sieve. It is dry lined. If a hole is made in the lining plasterboard, say to fit a socket, you can actually feel the wind behind it. Cavity insulation was a great help but is far from a proper job.

I wonder if the people from ’Insulate Briton‘ comprehend what is involved with updating old housing stock. Desirable though it is to do so.

John
 
Nov 11, 2009
12,950
2,616
40,935
Understood, I thought all condensing are combi, but that some held a reservoir to speed up delivery. I assume therefore that you still have a storage cylinder. We chose to have ours removed to give some useable space. Initial delivery of hot water is slow though, even though the dead leg to the kitchen sink is only about 2 metres.

John
Some Combis did have a ready use reservoir but not sure if modern ones do. Our daughters condensing combi is at the front of the house and her kitchen and bathroom are at the back. Despite it being a relatively new one it still took time to supply hot water. So last year we fitted an electric shower in her bathroom. So it’s shower fo r mornings and if they want a bath it’s the combi Boiler. When we installed a kitchen in her place this summer we included one of these ready use hot taps. It is hot enough to make tea, and one complete charge is sufficient when mixed with cold water to do the washing up. She says her boiler has rarely been used since the kitchen was fitted in June/July. We also fittted triple glazing five years ago and new doors so her house is very economical to run and warm too. But I do wish she would turn lights off more 🤭
 
Nov 11, 2009
12,950
2,616
40,935
Fantastic and a great plan. Sounds very comfy. Comparatively new regs on permeability have made a big difference and you look like you are ahead of the trend. Scottish regs have always been more stringent on insulation than the rest of the UK.

My house leaks like a sieve. It is dry lined. If a hole is made in the lining plasterboard, say to fit a socket, you can actually feel the wind behind it. Cavity insulation was a great help but is far from a proper job.

I wonder if the people from ’Insulate Briton‘ comprehend what is involved with updating old housing stock. Desirable though it is to do so.

John
A end of terrace 1930s house opposite my BIL in Coventry had external insulation fitted. It was a big job and I was surprised at the thickness of the slabs. But the owner told BIL that it was prefablevtonhaving the house insulated internally. Whereas a more modern house with cavity wall takes about half a day, this one in Coventry must have taken a week or so. Just imagine trying to upgrade all our older housing stock. The shortage of hgv drivers and others would look a mere drop in the ocean compared to the numbers required to Insulate Britain.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Jcloughie
Nov 11, 2009
12,950
2,616
40,935
A house I rented in Ottawa had hot air heating but being partly open plan the heat tended to rise away from the lower areas. So I rigged up a tumble dryer hose and electric fan to take warm air from the bedroom landing down into the lower den area, which also had a wood burner too. That place was very well insulated and energy bills were low being mostly obtained from hydro and some nuclear. Never could get the car warm in winter, draughty as anything.

1F642198-F260-4ACF-9209-D9E0BE098FCC.jpeg
 
Oct 3, 2013
761
54
18,935
If you're interested in seeing what the source of our electicity is then you may find this website interesting.

Nothing to do with the post - The elerctrical authority demands that generators must produce electricity at a moments notice when demanded by the authority.So companies have to keep their equipment in tip top order ready to generate at a moments notice.Of course you and I pay for this,That's why companies apparently get paid millions "for doing nothing"
 
Nov 11, 2009
12,950
2,616
40,935
Nothing to do with the post - The elerctrical authority demands that generators must produce electricity at a moments notice when demanded by the authority.So companies have to keep their equipment in tip top order ready to generate at a moments notice.Of course you and I pay for this,That's why companies apparently get paid millions "for doing nothing"
It would be no different if the major power generators were state controlled. If you need to meet a peak demand you either need energy stored or sufficient capacity to ramp up output to meet demand. It has to come from somewhere and be quickly available. So if you had six nuclear power stations normal demand may only require four, peak demand five with one being maintained. Users have to pay for all six irrespective.
 
Oct 3, 2013
761
54
18,935
It would be no different if the major power generators were state controlled. If you need to meet a peak demand you either need energy stored or sufficient capacity to ramp up output to meet demand. It has to come from somewhere and be quickly available. So if you had six nuclear power stations normal demand may only require four, peak demand five with one being maintained. Users have to pay for all six irrespective.
Peak demend is easily anticipated,after all they have h.ad years of experience
 
Nov 11, 2009
12,950
2,616
40,935
Peak demend is easily anticipated,after all they have h.ad years of experience
That’s fine as long as all of your generating capacity is available. Tomorrow we will sit in a high pressure zone and wind renewables will be a bit slack so some alternative generating capacity will have to fill the gap. One way or another it has to be paid for.
 
Sep 7, 2020
420
191
735
I've just entered my weekly readings and FWIW the solar pump runs for about 670 hours each year. It kicks in when the solar panel is 6degC higher than the water in the bottom of the hot water tank. So, it tells me that we're getting something but some days will produce hotter water than others.

Also FWIW: Scottish Wind Farms were paid about £69m in the first two months of this year because they were told to constrain output since local demand was less than could be generated and the surplus could not be exported.

For 2020 total constraint payments to Wind Farm Operators for the whole of the UK exceeded £274m
 
Nov 11, 2009
12,950
2,616
40,935
I've just entered my weekly readings and FWIW the solar pump runs for about 670 hours each year. It kicks in when the solar panel is 6degC higher than the water in the bottom of the hot water tank. So, it tells me that we're getting something but some days will produce hotter water than others.

Also FWIW: Scottish Wind Farms were paid about £69m in the first two months of this year because they were told to constrain output since local demand was less than could be generated and the surplus could not be exported.

For 2020 total constraint payments to Wind Farm Operators for the whole of the UK exceeded £274m
Recently £86m in one week to coal fired stations to keep producing through lack of wind. A record price per unit of power. Makes Hinckley C at less than £100 per megawatt hour seem good value. And it can be relied upon when finished. It’s the same to for the smaller DGs that are often sited adjacent to a solar farm. Even in Ireland there’s notice being taken of constraint payments to their power suppliers too. A very disjointed system which will not come into balance for a good while yet despite Mr Kwartengs Departments silky smooth statements to the media.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/sep/13/britain-last-coal-power-stations-to-be-paid-huge-sums-to-keep-lights-on-record-energy-prices
 
Oct 3, 2013
761
54
18,935
That’s fine as long as all of your generating capacity is available. Tomorrow we will sit in a high pressure zone and wind renewables will be a bit slack so some alternative generating capacity will have to fill the gap. One way or another it has to be paid for.
Like I said generators have had years of practise and experience.There;s always a wind somewhere at any given time in the UK
 

ASK THE COMMUNITY

TRENDING THREADS

Latest posts