Which gas

Aug 10, 2009
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Which type of gas do people on here use, at the moment we use Butane. But at our service today our engineer
recommended Propane mainly for cold weather usage. Any pro's and con's.

Steve
 
Nov 21, 2015
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We are on propane, it also burns hotter so we find we use less gas than on butane.

Got the propane lite bottles, they certainly are much lighter than the old ones!!
 

Parksy

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Nov 12, 2009
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I normally use propane but I keep a spare butane pigtail in the seat locker in case I have difficulty in obtaining a full propane bottle like I did last August.
Even the Calor depot had no full 6kg propane canisters available.
Apparently there was a shortage due in part to the empty canisters being stolen and sold as scrap metal.
 
Mar 14, 2005
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Although I used propane for many years in UK in Spain and France I use butane as it is readily available at controlled prices. 12.5 kg size costs 16 euros ie. Around 13 GBP max. Allowing for exchange rates. Compare this with the charge for 6kg refill in UK.

The bottle lives in the front locker as usual and we have never had any trouble with ignition or running even in outside air temperatures down to minus 5 C. It could be that as we always change the bottle in early Spring we may be getting a 'winter' version with a proportion of propane,. 12kg bought about now will last us though to mid April in Spain, short summer outings in UK, 6 Autumn weeks in Provence with enough for the trip back to Spain. Perhaps worth considering if you visit Europe.

From memory the individual on-bottlle regulators for propane and butane were set at slightly different delivery pressues. One was slightly more than the 30 mb of current regulator and one was slightly less I think. It would be interesting to know which was which and what the effect of running each gas at the current pressure is on relative heat output and consumption.
 
Mar 14, 2005
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Hi

Depending on the ambient temperatures, generally you can choose to use either commercial Butane or commercial Propane gas in your caravan, but always check the caravans gas data plates or specification to ensure you have the correct working gas pressure regulators for each gas. Most recent UK caravans have a common 30mBar working pressure for both gasses, but older caravans may require a 28mBar regulator for Butane, and 37mBar regulator for Propane.

Both Butane and Propane are members of the Hydrocarbon petroleum gasses. Pure Butane's formula is C₄H₁₀ and Propane's is C3 H8. But commercial bottled gas is not 100% pure and will contain small percentages of other gasses from the Hydrocarbon series so the specific mentioned below may be be even less noticeable.

Both gasses have some very similar characteristics, and the differences would only really be detectable using scientific equipment, so there is generally no discernible difference as far as the user is concerned, except for the ambient temperatures in which each gas can be used.

The ambient temperature affects the pressure of the gas inside the bottle, and if the bottle is too cold the internal pressure will drop to atmospheric pressure and no gas will be produced.

It's worth adding that when you take gas from the bottle, the liquified gas at the bottom attempts to boil to replenish the vapour you have used. It uses the latent heat of mass of the remaining liquified gas, and in doing so it cools the bottle. The bottle tries to drag heat out of the ambient air around it. Roofing contractors with their frosted bottles of propane gas are a testament to this self cooling effect. Consequently never wrap gas bottles up with thermal insulation, as you will actually make matters worse as the bottles can't grab the heat energy from the ambient air.

The practical minimum ambient temperatures for using each gas are
Butane about 5C
Propane about -40C

In practical terms, Butane should only be used in ambient temperatures above 5C, But Propane will continue to provide gas throughout the whole of the winter in the UK.

The Polisher has written "We are on propane, it also burns hotter so we find we use less gas than on butane." Propane burns with a flame temperature 1930C and with and calorific value of 11,080kcal/kg compared to Butane which has a flame temperature of only 1900C and calorific value of 10.93kcal/kg But Propane is less dense than Butane so a greater volume of propane has to pass to achieve the same mass as the butane throughput So whilst Propane may have the greater heat energy by mass it is less by volume, but whether it is less or more total heat than butane is dependant on the design of the appliance, and the gas supply pressure

To answer RayS last point, I have given the regulator difference at the top of my post. The effect on appliances is that Propane which has a slightly lower gas density finds it easier to pass through the burners injector and emerges at a slightly greater velocity compared to the slightly more dense Butane. But Propane with its lower density has to pass more volume to get the same mass of gas through. This tends to make a Propane flame longer and appear more vigorous than the equivalent butane flame which tends to be more compact but actually produces more heat per unit time.

The calculations to work out the actual heat output differences between Propane and Butane are quite complex and are affected not just by the diameter of the injector hole but by its tubular length and the formations in the gas air venturi mixing tube. But is was generally the case that if Propane was supplied at 37mBar and Butane at 28mBar the performance of the appliance was very similar.

The upshot of the new common 30mBar standards is Propane is supplied at a lower pressure so the appliance will produce less heat output, and Butane is supplied at a slightly higher pressure which will produce more heat compared to Propane. It's worth pointing out that where an appliance has a thermostatically control modulating control valve, once the appliance is up to temperature the thermostat will compensate for any differences in gas type heating effect, and you will not be aware of any difference in operation.
 
Jun 2, 2015
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Beat me to it prof.
The main thing as has been said is the usable temperature. Below around 5 degrees Butane struggles to get a pressure as it doesn’t boil off. Being denser you get more energy per unit than propane. Importantly they have different regulators. I actually have butane and propane bottles, the caravan came with a propane fitting so we have a propane bottle to supply that , I also have a butane bottle (that was given to me) that I use for the cadac (until it runs out or it is too cold to use). I also carry an assortment of reducers for different bottle types that I have collected over the years so I can runthe cadac and the caravan off propane if desired. I expect that I will keep using propane for the caravan as we do go year round, and butane for the cadac especially over the summer months as I prefer it.
 
Aug 10, 2009
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Thanks for all your replies. We are going to use our full butane bottle to run the cadac and swap the other bottle for Propane. Our supplier is happy to exchange types as they come in the same price band.

Steve
 
Nov 16, 2015
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We use, calor lites, I have three bottles, as we used to do a lot of French touring, now I know the French bottles( Le Cube) are so much cheaper and have the same fittings as BP gas lites. Thinking of going to the Caravan Show later this month just to ask Calor what are they doing about Calor lite, its 2 years now of low supply.
Thought the two big clubs could have asked more questions. Three weeks ago got a new bottle at Hertfod CC site, he had 4 full bottles.
Hutch
 
Aug 4, 2004
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Refilled our Calorlite bottle yesterday but at a cost of £28.75 so a heck of a jump in price! Luckily a Calorlite bottle lasts us about 3 - 5 years.
 
Nov 16, 2015
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Dazid, is the gasit bottle fitted in the van , and are you able to just fill in a normal LPG garage, whilst its in the van. still not convinced for myself due to supply of gaslite service points.
Thanks
Hutch.
 
Mar 13, 2008
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Hi. Use a Safefill cylinder and refill with autogas. Do your homework (where the nearest autogas station is) before you leave home and you will never run out of gas. Cylinder is almost paid for with savings. Some stations are selling for 51pence a litre!! Each to their own. I know some decry filling your own cylinders but it is no less safe than filling a converted car if you follow the rules. The connections are identical. I have always asked first If I can fill my cylinder and have never been refused. The beauty of a Safefill is that you only need one cylinder and you can top it up before you leave home. No more replacing cylinders that have some gas left in before exchanging.
Regards, Mike
 
Mar 14, 2005
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Hello Mike
I don't recall anyone decrying
Mike_374351805 said:
...Hi. Use... filling your own cylinders
I have expressed the point that not every road side LPG station will allow you to fill portable cylinders.

You are doing the right thing when you
Mike_374351805 said:
... always asked first If I can fill my cylinder and have never been refused.

What I do 'decry' are unsafe practices of trying to refill cylinders without functional safe filling systems usually which can be dangerously and easily over filled. This applies to all the hired cylinders that should only be filled by the bottle owner using their in house accredited systems for safe filling.

Don't forget that one of the duties of the bottle owner is to ensure it is periodically pressure checked for safety. For details contact the company that supplied your bottle.
 

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