Who sold this poor chap this car?

[Dustydog]

An amusing but slightly concerning story

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[Buckman]

An amusing but slightly concerning story

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There are several new posts. Are you referring to the EV and the gentleman not having a phone to download apps and not been given a cable to recharge the EV?

 

[Parksy]

This story proves that EV infrastructure isn't keeping pace with the rush to cease production of IC engines.
Britain will definitely be carbon neutral if owners of EVs can't go anywhere because of the lack of suitable charging facilities.

 

[Dustydog]

There are several new posts. Are you referring to the EV and the gentleman not having a phone to download apps and not been given a cable to recharge the EV?

Hadn’t seen any others on here so pass

 

[Tobes]

This story proves that EV infrastructure isn't keeping pace with the rush to cease production of IC engines.
Britain will definitely be carbon neutral if owners of EVs can't go anywhere because of the lack of suitable charging facilities.

That't not what I read from it. I read that the new owner of the car was unfortunately unprepared for their foray into EV ownership. Not their own fault, but unprepared none the less. To take on an EV without having a type 2 cable, or having a plan to have enough charge to get to your destination is simply planing to fail. They may not have know that, and again, not their fault. The e-2008 has a real world range of 155 miles - just enough to get from Oxford to Ingoldmells via teh direct route, passing through Northampton, Peterborough, Spalding and Boston, all with rapid chargers that are contactless enabled.
I agree, Parksy, that the charging infrastructure needs to continue to build out, and at a pace to keep up with the current uptake of EVs. But this was not about missing or failed chargers. It was about lack of education and potential miss-selling.

 

[Parksy]

The EV was mis-sold, but that doesn't alter the fact that EV charging facilities in Britain are inadequate.
There were no EV charging points within 12 miles of this unfortunate drivers home.
On another thread there are questions about public charging facilities for EVs towing caravans.
They don't seem to exist.
I'm not anti green technology, but the government haven't thought this through.

 

[Dustydog]

Very sadly Tobes most people don’t have your intellectual ability to comprehend what an EV is nor its requirements. Whoever sold this vehicle to the purchaser is a disgrace and deserves the sack. Is there no moral compass left in life? I struggle with IT. What I know is self taught . My two degrees don’t make me IT capable .
This is not a good story and shows there is something very wrong in the EV sales market🤬

 

[Tobes]

The EV was mis-sold, but that doesn't alter the fact that EV charging facilities in Britain are inadequate.
There were no EV charging points within 12 miles of this unfortunate drivers home.
On another thread there are questions about public charging facilities for EVs towing caravans.
They don't seem to exist.
I'm not anti green technology, but the government haven't thought this through.

Again - no argument that the charging infrastructure needs to continue to expand rapidly. And that the owner should have had a charge point pre-installed, especially if there is no public infrastructure in range of his home (although Zapmap shows 16 chargers inside 8 miles of Ingoldmells, if that indeed is where the gentleman lives). Also no argument that having dedicated chargers for towing vehicles would be a great thing. But the fact is that this case was not about any of those things. It was a lack of education and perhaps miss-selling that cause this poor soul be in the situation he was in. It shouldn't have happened. But it was not an EV issue. The same thing would have happened to someone who didn't know how to fill a petrol car and could not pay for a petrol filling service too.

Very sadly Tobes most people don’t have your intellectual ability to comprehend what an EV is nor its requirements. Whoever sold this vehicle to the purchaser is a disgrace and deserves the sack. Is there no moral compass left in life? I struggle with IT. What I know is self taught . My two degrees don’t make me IT capable .
This is not a good story and shows there is something very wrong in the EV sales market🤬

Dustydog - I absolutely agree that the failure here was on the dealership that sold the car to the customer. Their simple advice was poor. At the minimum, they could have given the new owner a list of locations with contactless charging on their route home and indicated to use one untill they had sufficient range for the journey. Not hard to do, but clearly not done. I would say though that this bad apple does not spoil the barrel. The EV center in Milton Keynes is the opposite. Great, unbiased manufacturer independent information, with demonstration rapid and fast chargers, cars available for multi day hire for experience. Unfortunately we find poor sales practice in all walks of life. Back in the '90s My gran, at about the age of 80, decided one day out of the blue she wanted a new car (she had a mini city). She took my cousin (who would have been about 12) into the mini dealer and asked for a new car. The sales guy sold her a top of the range 1.6 mini cooper. She was totally taken advantage of. Fortunately my uncle was able to get the sale reversed the same day.

 

[Dustydog]

Tobes. Forget the drum banging for EV just on this one occasion. No one is castigating EVs but it will be a very long time before ICE s give way to EVs. This says it all.
Electric may be the future but it took a total of 280 miles driven by a 2.0 Diesel and a 4.2L turbo diesel to get this situation sorted.😁😁

 

[Parksy]

The stranded EV was apparently a motability vehicle Tobes.
Disabled drivers are greatly reliant on their motability vehicles, and the motability organisation is probably one of the largest provider of vehicles in the UK.
This case is remarkable because a motability supplier mis-sold an EV, but it's also about the lack of EV charging points in some rural areas.
The recovery specialist made the point that they took the EV to a Tesco EV charging point 12 miles from the owners home and waited while the EV was recharged because the lack of charging points meant that recovery to the home address would have been pointless.
EVs are fine for younger drivers who are internet savvy enough to plan their journeys and use the various apps needed for successful completion of longer journeys.
An ageing demographic of disabled drivers who may not be so internet savvy may struggle with this hasty and ill conceived government race to achieve green status at the expense of less wealthy motorists.
If an affordable EV becomes available that will tow my 1625 kg t/a caravan from home in the West Midlands to our regular holiday destinations of Cornwall or the Lake District without significant delays for charging personally I might consider becoming an EV owner.
Unless or until that day arrives I remain unconvinced by this unmandated green agenda.
Again - It's not been thought through.

 

[Tobes]

I am in full agreement with the fact that it will be a long time before EVs replace diesel. Indeed , I don’t believe they ever will. I also agree that the charging infrastructure is not sufficient yet for the country’s needs. And I agree that for some drivers (motability or not) are not cut out to take on an EV. But blaming the EV, or the infrastructure in this case, is the same as blaming a laptop for being too complicated to write a letter on, for someone who has only used pen and ink. Both the car and the infrastructure are more than up to the job that was required. What failed was the dealer, and perhaps motability, and one could argue society in general. For someone to be able to buy an EV as a mobility tool, and not have a home chargers is crazy. The flip side is if you have a home charger with an EV, you never need to visit a fuel station again, at least for most journeys, removing a reliance on assisted fuelling.
Let’s be clear. Today there is no mandate on buying an EV. Yes - there are a few incentives, more for the company car driver than the private owner. But buying an EV or ICE is an choice, and will remain so for at least 8 if not 13 more years. That choice is in the hands of the consumer. If something about an EV, or any purchase, is not right for the user, don’t buy it. My guess here (and that’s all any of us have) is that the owner was miss sold a tool they had no capacity to use. That’s not the fault of the tool, or the infrastructure supporting it. It’s the fault of the salesman and ultimately, unfortunately, the buyer.
As for not buying an EV until it suits one’s own needs (like towing a 1625kg caravan 250 miles non stop), that’s an eminently sensible decision. It’s a decision that you can make personally based on your own local circumstances.
But let’s imagine for a moment that someone had bought a caravan who’s MRO was too heavy for the towed mass limit of their car, but gone away with it and then been stopped by the police for overloading. Is that the fault of the caravan? Or the car? No, it’s the dealer and ultimately the owner. Same situation here. I feel sorry for the gent, but blaming the infrastructure is simply wrong.

 

[Dustydog]

I feel sorry for the gent, but blaming the infrastructure is simply wrong.

According to the author of the story
Electric may be the future but it took a total of 280 miles driven by a 2.0 Diesel and a 4.2L turbo diesel to get this situation sorted.

So the recovery agents needing to drive 280 miles to remedy the situation is not an infrastructure problem ? That really stretches the test of reasonableness and sensibility

 

[Tobes]

I feel sorry for the gent, but blaming the infrastructure is simply wrong.

According to the author of the story
Electric may be the future but it took a total of 280 miles driven by a 2.0 Diesel and a 4.2L turbo diesel to get this situation sorted.

So the recovery agents needing to drive 280 miles to remedy the situation is not an infrastructure problem ? That really stretches the test of reasonableness and sensibility

Sorry Dustydog, but the distance the recovery driver had to cover to fix the situation is totally unrelated to the EV infrastructure. The original journey was arguably in range for the car had it been charged to 100%. It could have been charged at any one of a number of locations using contactless only chargers on route. We don’t know where the driver ran out, but it could have been just 20 miles out side of Oxford, needing a round trip of 280 miles to recover the car. That’s not an infrastructure issue. It’s a logistics issue.

 

[Dustydog]

Amen

 

[JezzerB]

What failed imo was owner and vehicle. I really can't be bothered to read it as it's more anti ev drumming but anyone buying any car should do a little bit of home work before purchase and the dealer the same. My father in law's neighbour did this. Bought an ev after . The dealer did some explanation so did we buy he was unprepared as where he lives don't allow charging( he does so secretly as it's a farcical excuse why not to I won't go in to) and he's really found the process tricky since the charge infrastructure isn't ideal but he's really getting into it now. So few people CBA to read a manual let alone about a product. Really annoys me

 

[Buckman]

The person who purchased the EV never had a Smartphone so had no idea of where charging points were located. It also seems that he was not supplied with a cable to charge the vehicle anyway or is the cable an additional purchase.
Either way the person who sold him the vehicle obviously has no conscience and was only interested in their commission from the sale and taking advantage of an elderly disabled gentleman. I hope that Motability take up the issue and severely rap the dealership! 😡

 

[Tobes]

The person who purchased the EV never had a Smartphone so had no idea of where charging points were located. It also seems that he was not supplied with a cable to charge the vehicle anyway or is the cable an additional purchase.
Either way the person who sold him the vehicle obviously has no conscience and was only interested in their commission from the sale and taking advantage of an elderly disabled gentleman. I hope that Motability take up the issue and severely rap the dealership! 😡

What is so frustrating about this is that the car Satnav will have known where chargers are even without a smart phone. It would also have been bleating warning about low battery status, and a rapid charger does not need a user provided cable. If the gent had had a contactless card, with just a little bit of training and information, he could have safely got home.

I am in full agreement with you Buckman, the dealer failed in their duty, certainly at handover, and probably in the sales process too. Especially if they had known he was a Motability customer.

 

[Buckman]

What is so frustrating about this is that the car Satnav will have known where chargers are even without a smart phone. It would also have been bleating warning about low battery status, and a rapid charger does not need a user provided cable. If the gent had had a contactless card, with just a little bit of training and information, he could have safely got home.

I am in full agreement with you Buckman, the dealer failed in their duty, certainly at handover, and probably in the sales process too. Especially if they had known he was a Motability customer.

More than likely the car never had a Satnav and even if it did highly unlikely the gent would have known how to use it never mind searching for locations of EV charging stations. Taking into account the probable type of handover, the elderly gent probably did not even know why the car was bleating!

 

[Tobes]

More than likely the car never had a Satnav and even if it did highly unlikely the gent would have known how to use it never mind searching for locations of EV charging stations. Taking into account the probable type of handover, the elderly gent probably did not even know why the car was bleating!

The e-2008 has navigation built in to all the spec levels. The one on show is one of the top two specs (it has the "lion claw" headlights). The low battery waring in an EV is not like the little fuel filler icon on a petrol car. It will flash up on the screen with an audible noise, and probably need an "ok" to remove it before it times out after perhaps 30 or 60 seconds. It's likely (though I don't know for Peugeot) the nav will ask you if you want to find a charging location local to you (mine does, Tesla do). It definitely has the ability to find and guide you to a charger if asked (again - without smartphone).
In fact looking at the spec on the website, the car should have a 6m Type-2 charging cable included as standard.
But again Buckman, I agree with you - even with all the driver aids trying to tell the chap he was in need of charge, he may not have known. Complete failure in the training of the user and its capability.

This makes me consider a simple test though for potential EV owners. "Do you own and use a smart phone?". Answer yes - carry on. Answer no - time to do some digging to understand if an EV (or perhaps any modern car) is right for them? BTW - I am not suggesting that non-smartphone users are not suitable for an EV. But it's a simple indicator of the ability to use technology., and many new cars (ICE and EV) have a number of features that are unlocked by virtue of a smartphone app.

 

[ProfJohnL]

We don't have all the facts so we cannot be sure the sales person was negligent. In a sale it is the legal responsibility of the buyer to ensure the product or service is capable of doing what they expect it to do. However dealers are also required to use their expert knowledge and experience to assist the customer to come to the best decision, but they can't override a customer view except by refusing to sell the product.

Perhaps the sales person was not aware of the customers need to travel beyond the vehicles range becasue teh customer may not have told him (or her), so lets not cast aspersions were there could be reasonable uncertainty about the apparent blame.

Despite my comment above, there does seem to be some reason for the sale to be investigated.

Just becasue there is some possible problem with this sale, it should not be used to condemn all EV sales, after all the car sales market for ICE vehicles doesn't exactly have a blemish free reputation.

 

[Raywood]

There seems to be a lot of conclusions jumped to here. Cannot condemn anyone in the circumstances.

 

[Buckman]

There seems to be a lot of conclusions jumped to here. Cannot condemn anyone in the circumstances.

However it seems that he was not informed about the app and they did nto supply a charging lead so even if he made it home, he would not have been able to charge the vehicle. I think that blame lies squarely with the dealership.

 

[Hutch]

I have read and reread the Sleaford recovery report and I cannot see where it states that the car did not have a recharge cable, it only states the elderly driver did not have a smart phone, to down load the App. The recovery folk took him to tesco to recharge him,
I think people are reading too much into this.

 

[Tobes]

I have read and reread the Sleaford recovery report and I cannot see where it states that the car did not have a recharge cable, it only states the elderly driver did not have a smart phone, to down load the App. The recovery folk took him to tesco to recharge him,
I think people are reading too much into this.

It's a good spot - and my mistake in this thread .

They didn't include a lead _to charge from home_. I.e. a 3 pin plug to car charger adapter (aka granny lead). Some cars come with them, some don't. The Pug doesn't. But it should come with a type-2 cable and indeed - there is a picture of the car on the back of the transporter, charging via a type2 lead at a Tesco PodPoint (presumably in Skeggy). You need an app to start a pod point charge. You don't need an app to start a CCS rapid charge on one of a bunch of chargers that would have been passed.

The thing for me is this. Whatever went wrong, however the gent ended up stranded, this was not a case of insufficient or broken infrastructure.

 

[Hutch]

I think the old gent, just didn't get it right on his first run home.

A friend of mine, who has a MG electric, last week was called up by his son to pick him up late one night from Norwich back home to Tring, a round trip off 200 miles, as he has only had his car for 6 weeks and only done 1200 miles, his wife nagged him into taking their diesel car, in case of not finding a recharging point. He did tell her that he had ZapMap, but Gungadin was braver.