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Will the electric car strategy the govement has kill Caravans

Jul 21, 2021
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Rang towing a caravan can cut a electric car range by 75% is it feasible to tow a caravan under these conditions.
 
Nov 11, 2009
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Rang towing a caravan can cut a electric car range by 75% is it feasible to tow a caravan under these conditions.
Only if you are prepared to visit sites a short distance from home or suffer frequent stops to recharge. Ive yet to see any recharging points that would take a car and its caravan.

I guess a similar question would have been asked back in the early 1900s by the Hansom Cab drivers when the new fangled things with noisy engines started to arrive on the scene. But one way or another I am sure that some form of touring will still happen, but possibly not quite as we know it. Many of the younger generation like campers and camper vans, or just going out to ready erected camping units of some form. Things change and people evolve.
 
Nov 6, 2005
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Rang towing a caravan can cut a electric car range by 75% is it feasible to tow a caravan under these conditions.
75% reduction in range sounds like a US test where they tow caravans twice as heavy as ours at 75 mph.

Towing a caravan with an IC car has always reduced my tank range by about 33% so I see no reason why that same reduction wouldn't apply with an EV.

The use of EVs will affect long-distance towing - I routinely do 400 miles in a day when going up to Scotland but with an EV I'd have to stop overnight part-way.
 
Jul 21, 2021
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75% reduction in range sounds like a US test where they tow caravans twice as heavy as ours at 75 mph.

Towing a caravan with an IC car has always reduced my tank range by about 33% so I see no reason why that same reduction wouldn't apply with an EV.

The use of EVs will affect long-distance towing - I routinely do 400 miles in a day when going up to Scotland but with an EV I'd have to stop overnight part-way.
An IC engine becomes more effichant under full load, whereas electrics become less effichant under full load.

Charging points in caravan sites, they are limited, in what they can fit.
 
Nov 11, 2009
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I think that any meaningful towing with EV will have to be with a vehicle designed to tow, IE pick up, large SUV. Batteries are heavy and their energy density is less than diesel or petrol, so for range-load equivalency the EV is at a disadvantage. Most EVs aid their range by regenerative braking systems which are optimised for the cars solo weights. Adding an additional tow load will add complexity. Also to keep vehicle weights down the cars powertrain will be optimised for the solo loads not necessarily including a large heavy additional towed load.
A lot will depend on how important car makers are to satisfy the caravan market. To date we've had a whole range of family cars able to tow satisfactorily and do the day job too. That may not be the case in the future, it remains to be seen if alternative fuel sources such as hydrogen will develop more widely. JCB are themselves initiating a range of hydrogen ICEs as pure EV isn't viable in remote locations or for hard challenging duty cycles.

Whatever happens the future is interesting,
 
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Jun 20, 2005
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Technology is a wonderful thing. Whilst a year or so ago I was a sceptic, now I am optimistic EVs will make successful tugs providing the charging infrastructure keeps pace with the battery technology. However how many of us in 9 years time will be able to afford an EV?
 
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Nov 16, 2015
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Technology is a wonderful thing. Whilst a year or so ago I was a sceptic, now I am optimistic EVs will make successful tugs providing the charging infrastructure keeps pace with the battery technology. However how many of us in 9 years time will be able to afford an EV?
Dusty Dog, you and me have already bought our first ones, to suit what we need for the moment to get to the pub. Ours is Candy apple red, max speed 4mph.
 
Jul 21, 2021
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Technology is a wonderful thing. Whilst a year or so ago I was a sceptic, now I am optimistic EVs will make successful tugs providing the charging infrastructure keeps pace with the battery technology. However how many of us in 9 years time will be able to afford an EV?
Thier is no new battery technology on the horizon (20 years) all tesla did was to increase the physical size of its batteries making them 2-3 % more power capacity per Kg than the old battery's..
 
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Nov 16, 2015
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There is a lot of new battery technology coming on, the shapes are changing from tubular to flat. The different types of battery, li-ion, silver cadmium and many other types. 10 years time, things will be different, but the cost will NOT come down.
 
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Jun 20, 2005
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Maybe Hutch one of these with overhead trolley but wires🚎🚎🚎 😀😀😀
 
Jul 21, 2021
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There is a lot of new battery technology coming on, the shapes are changing from tubular to flat. The different types of battery, li-ion, silver cadmium and many other types. 10 years time, things will be different, but the cost will NOT come down.
Nope, nothing on the horizon that will be affordable, (Silver battery's would increase the cost of the batteries by 400%) the problem is that to achieve a doubling of charge per Kg new chemistry with new elements are required. Tesla are just repacking to give a few% increases in charges per Kg.
Hydrogen is a non starter, 1lt of diesel is equivelant to 800 lts of his gas, so a 20 lt cylinder (welding cylinder size) at 300 bar can only hold about 6000 of H2, about 8 lt of diesel.

Efficiency of making H2 is about 80%. Then if used in a IC engine, similar CO2 km as diesil cars.
 
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Jun 20, 2005
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Thanks Peter,
you appear well informed on these matters. In reality do you believe EVs for towing are still many many years away.? I just can’t comprehend using one for touring the Scottish Highlands
 
Jan 31, 2018
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Towing to max capacity and max speed is generally purported to be 50% battery range not 75%-which on a Tesla X gives you 100 miles before a rapid charge-trouble is chargers aren't really orientated to towing so often you'd need to uncouple-the Ford and Rivian EVs will have 3-400 mile ranges and tow capacity of up to 5000 kg so given that high figure you'd expect less than a 50% drop in range-temp and speed also have an effect just like an ICE vehicle. Short answer NO definitely not-we may see a raft of lighter vans but the weight and power delivery of electric should make superb towcars. I am VERY positive about it as you can tell-we now need more makers with cars that can tow-and prices to come down and ranges to go up=-plus a far better charging network-at the mo it is very hit and miss! But it is fast- a 40 min stop in our mini can gain 100 miles range-and most people like to stop after 150 or so miles-for safetys sake. EVs will make amazing towcars-look how far they have come already and you'll see the potential-drive one and you'll know!
 
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Jul 21, 2021
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Thier are many myths beimg told about how good electric cars are, they say 100% effichant 100% green, neither are true.

To charge an electric car from the mains around 14% is lost as heat, where does the electricity come from? Mainly gas nuclear and imported, only about 10% from renewable.. (the people advocating electric cars say nuclear is renewable.)
The imported electricity is from France will dry up when French go all electric. Some say charge from roof PV cells on house, on average during 1 year is 2kwh per day, so if you used all of it to charge an electric car you could only charge it up 12x a year!

Personal looking at electric runabout car for local and diesel for longer journeys and towing....

Think of this to end with.
A motorway service has say 20 pumps, average person refills in 5 minutes then move on..

Now let's convert them to all electric.

Say an electric car takes 50 mins to charge to 80%.

As it takes 10x longer to charge an electric car as it does to refuel a petrol car, and you will have to do it 2x as often as petrol you will need 400 electric charging stations to replace the 20 petrol pumps.

At 250Kw each that's 100Mw of electricity if all used at same time.
 
Jan 3, 2012
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it all depends if we are still towing because at present i taking it day by day because of my mobility issues but if i am it depends what i can afford for electric car but the caravan would be a lightweight just in case As someone says how many will be able to afford one i am hoping we can but that is some way of still we will look into it more in ten years time :)
 
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Jan 31, 2018
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Thier are many myths beimg told about how good electric cars are, they say 100% effichant 100% green, neither are true.

To charge an electric car from the mains around 14% is lost as heat, where does the electricity come from? Mainly gas nuclear and imported, only about 10% from renewable.. (the people advocating electric cars say nuclear is renewable.)
The imported electricity is from France will dry up when French go all electric. Some say charge from roof PV cells on house, on average during 1 year is 2kwh per day, so if you used all of it to charge an electric car you could only charge it up 12x a year!

Personal looking at electric runabout car for local and diesel for longer journeys and towing....

Think of this to end with.
A motorway service has say 20 pumps, average person refills in 5 minutes then move on..

Now let's convert them to all electric.

Say an electric car takes 50 mins to charge to 80%.

As it takes 10x longer to charge an electric car as it does to refuel a petrol car, and you will have to do it 2x as often as petrol you will need 400 electric charging stations to replace the 20 petrol pumps.

At 250Kw each that's 100Mw of electricity if all used at same time.
The EV is far far far more efficient at turning power into motion however, we use loads of fossil fuels to make,,, err fossil fuels-this can then be reduced-the list goes on. The charging station point is most definitely an issue but it's proven than most journeys are far shorter and range is far less than many actually need. In summary;

UK grid is around 50% renewable energy (and rising) - if you have solar or renewable tariff then up to 100%
EV drivetrain is 3 times as efficient at turning fuel into forward motion
EV's are around 25% worse for environment during production but this is offset within about 20k miles (will be less if 100% renewable energy)
No tailpipe emissions so local air quality massively improved
No smell, quieter, smoother driving, cheaper to run and cheaper overall after an average of 5 years.
But ultimately we didn't buy our EV because it's green-it's just far far far more fun to drive than the 228bhp Clubman JCW we replaced it with-just happens to be costing less than 4p a mile-and with current petrol and diesel prices equivalent to 180mpg.
 
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Nov 11, 2009
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Technology is a wonderful thing. Whilst a year or so ago I was a sceptic, now I am optimistic EVs will make successful tugs providing the charging infrastructure keeps pace with the battery technology. However how many of us in 9 years time will be able to afford an EV?
If our ICE are running okay why bother. buying an EV until it suits you. The pressure may come as fuel stations close down, prices go up and fuelling your ICE becomes as “ easy” as charging an EV on a long journey is currently ⚡🔋
 
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Nov 11, 2009
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As an aside I can’t get my mower out of the garage so daughter lent me her Spear Jackson electric battery mower
When I picked it up she was just finishing mowing her front meadow and it made a. creditable job on its high setting. Doing my lawn heavy with dew was a doddle on the second lowest setting. It made a better job and got closer to the edges than my Alko 1.25 bhp mower. Or should it be PS mower. Ive seen the future. No more oil changing, no more plug replacement, no filter washouts. No visits to fuel station. Cobra for me next time around when the Alko gives way.
 
Jun 16, 2020
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If we didn’t pursue change via legislation of one type or another. There would be absolutely no incentive for industry to change as long as they are selling their product and making a return for their investors. The regular new target for ICE vehicles have made major changes in emissions and improvements in power output.

I see the introduction of EV to be an extension to these policies. And clearly great strides are being made.

Nevertheless. Still out of my pay grade. However. If I did not tow. I would look closely at the small EV car options.

John
 
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Nov 11, 2009
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If we didn’t pursue change via legislation of one type or another. There would be absolutely no incentive for industry to change as long as they are selling their product and making a return for their investors. The regular new target for ICE vehicles have made major changes in emissions and improvements in power output.

I see the introduction of EV to be an extension to these policies. And clearly great strides are being made.

Nevertheless. Still out of my pay grade. However. If I did not tow. I would look closely at the small EV car options.

John

We plan to hold on to the two petrol cars until we see what things we want to do and what future options are open to us. Now without the caravan there will come a day when the dogs are no longer with us. After that we would like to restart or long trips abroad into Europe as well as Scotland too. So we bide our time and see how things develop. But I must say I’m attracted to an EV. It would be so convenient at times to *** up to Tesco and not worry about emulsified oil🛢
 

Ern

May 23, 2021
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We have to enjoy our touring caravan days while we can. It is unlikely that tow cars will be made as manufacturers reduce the production of ICE vehicles - from the largest first and progressively stop making cars with towing capability.
Charge points for electric cars towing caravans? No chance.
 
Nov 11, 2009
11,977
2,219
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There is a lot of new battery technology coming on, the shapes are changing from tubular to flat. The different types of battery, li-ion, silver cadmium and many other types. 10 years time, things will be different, but the cost will NOT come down.
How do you know that cost will not come down. Just look at what the automotive and electronics industry have achieved over the last 30 years. In real terms many consumer goods are cheaper than before. Until recent upheavals costs of flying and many other lifestyle choices has reduced. EV s will eventually follow that path if people’s travel needs still require flexibility and availability.
 
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Jan 31, 2018
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We have to enjoy our touring caravan days while we can. It is unlikely that tow cars will be made as manufacturers reduce the production of ICE vehicles - from the largest first and progressively stop making cars with towing capability.
Charge points for electric cars towing caravans? No chance.
I have to say I totally disagree-there are already a handful of very capable electric tow cars. However as above-well out of our pay range at the mo but they'll come down in price-and of course batteries last far longer than anyone was predicting so there'll be a good second hand market. Charge points-well our small local caravan site is already on the case!
Top ten-
Tesla model 3 current software update 1000kg so Bailey Discovery, Eriba, etc
Van based MPVs -all the same under the badge=Citroen espace tourer Vauxhall e vivaro/ Peugeot etraveller-all 1000kg
Audi A4 etron, Skoda Enyaq VW id4 1000kg 200bhp and 300 mile range in the higher powered /pricey versions
Polestar too-pricey but 400bhp and 1500kg towing capacity-NOW WE;'re talking! Look amazing too_Over 300 mile range and 4 wheel drive
Hyundai Ioniq 5 1600kg towing capacity
Kia EV6 as above
Mercedes EQA base model 750kg, more powerful version 1800kg=twin axle territory!
Mercedes EQC-as above
Audi ETron 1800kg
Tesla Model X -I know 80k is a lot of money but we're at the start of this adventure-2268kg tow capacity air suspension 360mile range on some-so 200 towing, and lightening performance. In my mind things look very rosey!
 
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Jan 3, 2012
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I have to say I totally disagree-there are already a handful of very capable electric tow cars. However as above-well out of our pay range at the mo but they'll come down in price-and of course batteries last far longer than anyone was predicting so there'll be a good second hand market. Charge points-well our small local caravan site is already on the case!
I am totally in agreement :)
 
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Nov 6, 2005
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Thanks Peter,
you appear well informed on these matters. In reality do you believe EVs for towing are still many many years away.? I just can’t comprehend using one for touring the Scottish Highlands
Scotland's tourist areas are at the forefront of charger provision, at least for solo cars - but the big issue in all areas is out-of-service chargers which makes pre-planning very hit-and-miss.
 

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