Will the electric car strategy the govement has kill Caravans

Page 12 - Passionate about caravans & motorhome? Join our community to share that passion with a global audience!
Nov 11, 2009
13,373
2,802
40,935
AFAIK the "concession" for hybrids after 2030 until 2035 will require cars to meet a government-set minimum range on battery alone - but that range hasn't been decided yet.
I think it will be to set minimum emissions for hybrids not range. The HMG document July 2021 seems to be the latest thinking following consultation.

https://www.gov.uk/government/consultations/consulting-on-ending-the-sale-of-new-petrol-diesel-and-hybrid-cars-and-vans/outcome/ending-the-sale-of-new-petrol-diesel-and-hybrid-cars-and-vans-government-response#next-steps
 
Nov 6, 2005
5,188
629
25,935
In a way, they're the same - the further a hybrid goes on battery alone the later the engine kicks in and so reduces emissions on the fixed length WLTP test.
 
Nov 11, 2009
13,373
2,802
40,935
They should have a place to park, so why not park and charge?
There are many blocks of flats in town centres that do not have enough parking even for one vehicle per flat. Consequently cars can be parked away from the block, on pavements, on the grass areas etc. The only option for such drivers would be to charge when away from the residence IE supermarkets, nearby on street, car parks, charging stations etc.


https://www.lmp-law.com/2021/10/06/blocks-of-flats-parking-and-electric-charging-stations/
 
Mar 14, 2005
14,733
1,406
40,935
People who live in flats will struggle to run an electric car
The vast majority journeys in cars are less than 15 miles. with many modern EV's managing at least 200 and its only going to get better as new developments come along, owners with out off street parking, or dedicated parking bays will find ways at some point during the week to charge and last the week. It may not be quite as convenient as we have it with dino juice, but there are means and ways.

It may require a change of mindset, but it is possible.
 
  • Like
Reactions: JezzerB
Jul 18, 2017
5,013
1,173
11,935
Yes - one area of expected taxation is for Pay as you go - road charging. The more you use, the more you pay.
One other area of recovered revenue is to stop subsidising the fossil fuel industry.



That's a very debatable statement. It's true that EV's are currently more expensive than their ICE counterparts to buy new, but;
prices are coming down.
VED is (currently 0)
cost per mile is significantly lower for EV vs ICE
servicing costs are lower
residual values are so far higher than ICE (because of lower cost to service and fewer parts to fail).
Someone has to pay for road maintenance and for the NHS so I cannot see EVs having VED at zero for much longer as the loss of that revenue is substantial plus in addition the loss of revenue from the use of fossil fuels. It would not surprise me if the VED became more expensive than the current highest VED rated vehicles on the road. This would place EVs out of the range of many people and noy juts those on the poverty line.
 
Nov 6, 2005
5,188
629
25,935
The vast majority journeys in cars are less than 15 miles. with many modern EV's managing at least 200 and its only going to get better as new developments come along, owners with out off street parking, or dedicated parking bays will find ways at some point during the week to charge and last the week. It may not be quite as convenient as we have it with dino juice, but there are means and ways.

It may require a change of mindset, but it is possible.
The average journey may be low but the vast majority of cars need to undertake occasional longer journeys - working on just the average is false logic.

In the caravanning context, the real world towing range is about 1/3 the official WLTP figures
 
Nov 11, 2009
13,373
2,802
40,935
Someone has to pay for road maintenance and for the NHS so I cannot see EVs having VED at zero for much longer as the loss of that revenue is substantial plus in addition the loss of revenue from the use of fossil fuels. It would not surprise me if the VED became more expensive than the current highest VED rated vehicles on the road. This would place EVs out of the range of many people and noy juts those on the poverty line.
Why do you think VED or it’s replacement could be higher than the current highest rate?……£2245 in year 1 and £155 annually afterwards for new cars.

Or £315 pa fir a pre 2017 XT Forester….ouch.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: JezzerB
Jul 18, 2017
5,013
1,173
11,935
Why do you think VED or it’s replacement could be higher than the current highest rate?……£2245 in year 1 and £155 annually afterwards for new cars.

Or £315 pa fir a pre 2017 XT Forester….ouch.
Where are will the government get the money currently obtained from VED, duty and VAT on fuel, VAT on motor servicing & spares. I would think that over a year it is probably well over a millions of pounds it not billions. Someone has to pay for motorway maintenance, NHS etc and that money has to come from someone.
The government will probably need to source it from somewhere and the easiest target is the motorist and then PAYE. If they tax companies too heavily the companies will simply up and chuck and move to another country. A fine balancing act for any government of any country.
 
May 7, 2012
6,639
886
25,935
People who live in flats will struggle to run an electric car
My feeling is that we will end up with charging stations similar to the current petrol stations, There is one now in Brentwood and there are plans to roll out more.
As form tax the simple answer to increasing the cost of running an ICE vehicle is that the more you charge the more EV's become attractive and the tax raised would actually go down. It is already starting to hurt the treasury although fuel and electricity price increases have helped increase the take as VAT applies. Road pricing looks to be the way the government is thinking but it would take a long time to set up, and how you cover short trips in towns and cities I do not know unless they use satellites with cars being fitted with a box. That might make it difficult to trap those who switch the box of though.
 

Sam Vimes

Moderator
Sep 7, 2020
485
249
935
I guess when enough time has passed then a new normal will set in but right now we are the ones that have to experience the transistion. While I applaud the ideals of zero carbon or carbon neutrality I think that during this transition period there should also be consideration to 'cost neutrality' so that the divide between those that can pay and those that can't doesn't get any wider.

The strategy, at least in terms of home heating, does seem to consider this an important factor but as in the past delivery often falls short.

The vast majority journeys in cars are less than 15 miles. with many modern EV's managing at least 200 and its only going to get better as new developments come along, owners with out off street parking, or dedicated parking bays will find ways at some point during the week to charge and last the week. It may not be quite as convenient as we have it with dino juice, but there are means and ways.

It may require a change of mindset, but it is possible.
I find 15 miles as an average hard to believe. Its always seems to me that motorways etc are packed with cars traveling more than that distance between some junctions. Also a commute to the office seemed to be acceptable within a 30 mile radius

IMHO the issue with "range anxiety" which is pretty much non-existent for any EV driver, but is a thing for ICE drivers thinking of moving to EV........ I just think about when and how I will charge before I hit the road.
I wonder if that's really true that EV drivers don't experience much range anxiety. I also wonder how many EV car owners have access to an ICE vechile as well. The limited number of people I know with EVs all have ICE cars as well. My daughter and son-in-law have one of each and depending on the journey they will choose the car most suitable for the distance and time require - range consideration if not anxiety.
 
Mar 14, 2005
14,733
1,406
40,935
We still have to annually register every vehicle even if its zero VED rated. It would be easy to include the need to record the odometer reading when the vehicle is registered, and the range covered would provide a metric to set the mileage charges.

The Mot also records the mileage. Perhaps MOT's will made compulsory for all even one year old cars.
 
Nov 6, 2005
5,188
629
25,935
We still have to annually register every vehicle even if its zero VED rated. It would be easy to include the need to record the odometer reading when the vehicle is registered, and the range covered would provide a metric to set the mileage charges.

The Mot also records the mileage. Perhaps MOT's will made compulsory for all even one year old cars.
Or just use a "new car tax" to cover the first 3 years and then annually based on the MoT - with much higher enforcement/penalties for un-MoT'd cars.
 
Nov 11, 2009
13,373
2,802
40,935
Or just use a "new car tax" to cover the first 3 years and then annually based on the MoT - with much higher enforcement/penalties for un-MoT'd cars.
I am still surprised that after some years low emission cars are still paying zero or just a bit more. I can understand the need to encourage EV and PHEV take up but for much longer little Fiestas etc have been very low VED, and as they burn very little fuel the taxes and duties on fuel have been reducing. The recent change has gone some way to ensuring some increase in revenue via VED. Mind you after just fuelling up for a trip to Coventry tomorrow £70.44 for E10 at 1.43.9 per litre caused me to suck my teeth. If BIL should offer any cash for fuel or his Chrlstmas lunch it will be rapidly and gratefully received. . If the little Kia had better headlights we might consider taking that. Might think about a light upgrade.
 
Nov 6, 2005
5,188
629
25,935
I am still surprised that after some years low emission cars are still paying zero or just a bit more. I can understand the need to encourage EV and PHEV take up but for much longer little Fiestas etc have been very low VED, and as they burn very little fuel the taxes and duties on fuel have been reducing. The recent change has gone some way to ensuring some increase in revenue via VED. Mind you after just fuelling up for a trip to Coventry tomorrow £70.44 for E10 at 1.43.9 per litre caused me to suck my teeth. If BIL should offer any cash for fuel or his Chrlstmas lunch it will be rapidly and gratefully received. . If the little Kia had better headlights we might consider taking that. Might think about a light upgrade.
I too am surprised - both my little Citroen C1, which has a 1.0 litre petrol and my son's Skoda Octavia, which has a 2.0 diesel, both pay just £20 /year VED
 
Nov 11, 2009
13,373
2,802
40,935
I too am surprised - both my little Citroen C1, which has a 1.0 litre petrol and my son's Skoda Octavia, which has a 2.0 diesel, both pay just £20 /year VED
But like our Rio. But I still don’t agree with it now they are so commonplace.
 
Jul 23, 2021
192
180
135
I too am surprised - both my little Citroen C1, which has a 1.0 litre petrol and my son's Skoda Octavia, which has a 2.0 diesel, both pay just £20 /year VED
Both are in the long tail of lowering emissions cars. Right now we have three cars (which in its self is ridiculous), a Kia Picanto 995cl (no tax), V60 PHEV with a 2.5L diesel (no tax) and the Polestar EV (no tax). Incredibly the Kia is both the most expensive to insure (a 19 and 21 year old on it, with a 17 to be added in May) and run. While the 60hp petrol is cleaner and more efficient than the 2.5d in the V60, the V60 also has 78hp of electric motor and a 25 mile pure electric range, and now no longer does long drives. I should really swap it for a a 2nd full EV, but having the option of a 2nd tow car is hard to let go.
 

Sam Vimes

Moderator
Sep 7, 2020
485
249
935
Just been to the village and noticed our charging station. Suprised to see a sign on it that says maximium stay is limited to 45mins and no return within 30mins.

Its a 50Kw charger and 30p per Kwh. Is 45 mins a reasonable time for a good charge?

Charger.jpg
 
Jul 23, 2021
192
180
135
Just been to the village and noticed our charging station. Suprised to see a sign on it that says maximium stay is limited to 45mins and no return within 30mins.

Its a 50Kw charger and 30p per Kwh. Is 45 mins a reasonable time for a good charge?

View attachment 2648
It depends on the car and if the charger is really pushing 50kW. Its not bad but not great. If I plugged in at between 10% and 30% on my car, 45mins there would add 50% (about 100 miles). After 80% my charging speed slows from 50kWh, so I would likely move on anyway. As a volt and bolt (splash and dash equiv) it would usually be fine.
 
  • Like
Reactions: JezzerB

JTQ

May 7, 2005
2,486
473
19,935
Not sure it’s really an issue. If you plan enough to have fresh petrol or diesel in a can in the garage, you can ensure that you charge your car enough to get to another charging location before the storm arrives .
If the storm causes local problems (where your work is) you probably have several days of commute in a full battery. If you work remotely you can charge out of the failed area.
If you commute any distance and there are still issues, there are probably more pressing things to worry about…
I still wonder, even more now large expanses of the north endured their eighth day off electrical power, the running of their pure EVs is actually proving viable and as suggested being any real issue?
 
Jan 31, 2018
1,514
618
5,935
It's such a rare event I haven't even considered it-in our 1 and 1 month ev owner ship petro and diesel owners have had more issues filling up than we have our Mini-it was an absolute godsend when the panic buying kicked off and still is now prices have shot through the roof!
 
Mar 14, 2005
14,733
1,406
40,935
I do hope the power outage problems in the NE are resolved very soon. Such long and wide spread power outages are exceptional, and very rare in the UK, and will be causing considerable hardship to those affected.

There can be no doubt that anyone who has an EV and can't charge normally will be experiencing major problems, but ICE vehicle will also be having problems as no power means that filling stations can't operate either.

It does strike me though that some people who have chosen to go down the EV route, may also have invested in home solar or wind power generation, and they will be happier.

This goes to show how having more local energy generation and storage can reduce the impact of grid outages. I firmly believe that all new builds and major renovations should include local generation and storage, even if its using the storage capacity of an EV - called vehicle to Grid, or Vehicle to load.
 
Jun 16, 2020
2,197
706
1,935
I do hope the power outage problems in the NE are resolved very soon. Such long and wide spread power outages are exceptional, and very rare in the UK, and will be causing considerable hardship to those affected.

There can be no doubt that anyone who has an EV and can't charge normally will be experiencing major problems, but ICE vehicle will also be having problems as no power means that filling stations can't operate either.

It does strike me though that some people who have chosen to go down the EV route, may also have invested in home solar or wind power generation, and they will be happier.

This goes to show how having more local energy generation and storage can reduce the impact of grid outages. I firmly believe that all new builds and major renovations should include local generation and storage, even if its using the storage capacity of an EV - called vehicle to Grid, or Vehicle to load.
With home solar. Can the owner use the generated power directly, or is it just fed into the grid?

John
 

ASK THE COMMUNITY

TRENDING THREADS