Wind Power questions

[SpudDog57]

We have driven via Bethune stop over to Chambery. On route we passed a number of wind farms, none of the blades were turning at a speed that could produce any decent power. We counted 5 blades doing complete very slow turns out of several dozen wind turbines across France in two days. we spent nearly three hours at one service area and the near by wind farm was just at stand still the whole time even with a faily good warm breeze.
How do these wind farms work?
Do they work?
Are they really cost effective and do they really produce any real significant power.
We've also seen a few small private wind generators on farms and not one of those has been turning

 

[Lutz]

Germany probably has more wind farms than any other country in Europe. In a couple of states they meet between 40 and 50% of the total demand for electricity. In the state of Lower Saxony they produced over 6 gigawatts in 2010. The wind farms are privately owned, but normally connected to the national grid so they are turned off during off-peak periods when there is less demand for electricity. I don't know whether the same applies to France, but to make the investment for building ecologically friendly power generation such as wind farms attractive for small enterprises, the government has laid down minimum prices that are paid to their owners for feeding the national grid with electricity generated in that way and this price is higher than conventionally produced electriciity. As long as this is the case, the big power companies prefer to resort to electricity produced by (for them) cheaper means rather than purchase kilowatts from wind farms at a higher price.

 

[SpudDog57]

"building ecologically friendly power generation such as wind farms attractive"
Well no one seems to give any ecological thought to the blot on the countryside that the three armed bandits make. Parts of Cornwall we've seen have been ruined by the eye sores. It must be bad enough for people to have the monsters ruin their countryside. We would be wild to have to look at the things standing still.

 

[Lord Braykewynde]

Well no one seems to give any ecological thought to the blot on the countryside that the three armed bandits make. Parts of Cornwall we've seen have been ruined by the eye sores.

Unbelievably some people think they are attractive

 

[ValA.]

We had three of the earliest wind turbines, very near to us, put up in 1992. They were such a novelty that they were all 'named' by local school children. They are now derelict and the blades have been removed. In the early days they were a tourist attraction - now no longer so, and the local people are now fighting against them being replaced with even larger structures! It was said they didn't even generate enough electricity to run the pumps on the reservoir where they were installed!
Perhaps wind turbines have a place - and it's not in the middle of beautiful countryside, but in the middle of the North Sea!

 

[Gafferbill]

…….French wind farms only really produce back up generation to their Nuclear power stations.
They rely on Nuclear for 78% of their electricity needs, the highest ratio in the World.
If you use the Dover/Dunkerque ferry one of their Nuclear stations can be seen at Gravelines between Calais and Dunkerque and it is the 5th largest in the World.
It is a worrying thought that they have around 20 Nuclear stations dotted around the Country!................

 

[LMH]

There's some in Camber. A local farmer made a killing by selling his land for them to be sited on. They can be seen from all over Romney Marsh and East Sussex. I personally don't have a problem with them. It was however, interesting to note that half of the ones situated in Camber didn't appear to work.

Lisa

 

[colin-yorkshire1]

Well no one seems to give any ecological thought to the blot on the countryside that the three armed bandits make. Parts of Cornwall we've seen have been ruined by the eye sores.

Unbelievably some people think they are attractive

would not say attractive but they are a dam site better than a sky line full of cooling towers in my opinion.
it is a pity that the complaints of the MIMBY's are given such creedence when alternative power sources are suggested for an area, ok so may be turbines are not the the only way to do it but I suspect the objections would be the same for a field full of solar panels,
these people though still expect the lights to come on when they flick the light switch the power has to come from somewhere so why not locally, speaking from someone who lives under the shadow of a coal fired power plant it is a tad annoying.

 

[Gafferbill]

......yes Lisa been to Camber many times with the caravan and cycled pass Dungeness Nuclear power stations.
They are 55miles from my house!
I too do not have a problem with them as long as nothing goes wrong!!

 

[Lord Braykewynde]

would not say attractive but they are a dam site better than a sky line full of cooling towers in my opinion.
it is a pity that the complaints of the MIMBY's are given such creedence when alternative power sources are suggested for an area, ok so may be turbines are not the the only way to do it but I suspect the objections would be the same for a field full of solar panels,
these people though still expect the lights to come on when they flick the light switch the power has to come from somewhere so why not locally, speaking from someone who lives under the shadow of a coal fired power plant it is a tad annoying.

Well you do come up with some surprises ya ol' tyke.
It seems funny to see an ex-miner who has moaned in past posts about pit closures and destruction of communities and now complaining about coal fired power stations. There are still mines open in the country supplying these stations with coal keeping people in jobs. Two of them, Thoresby and Welbeck, are in my old stamping ground and my late BIL was a deputy at Welbeck.
Out of interest I checked to see how many of these coal fired power stations were in the UK. A total of 17.
Now for active wind farms. A total of 3178 with 291 planned. No comparison about which is the biggest blot on the landscape.
I wonder how many wind farms would be needed to meet the output from one power station

What does make me laugh is when there are any reports of pollution the media and tree huggers show pics of steam coming from cooling towers

I did find out some more figures of interest.
To replace a nuclear power station with wind turbines supplying the equivalent output it would take an area of land 8.24 times the size of Glasgow which equals 8760 wind turbines.

 

[LMH]

......yes Lisa been to Camber many times with the caravan and cycled pass Dungeness Nuclear power stations.
They are 55miles from my house!
I too do not have a problem with them as long as nothing goes wrong!!

My horse used to have a fabulous view of Dungeness A and B from her stable.

Lisa

 

[colin-yorkshire1]

Well you do come up with some surprises ya ol' tyke.
It seems funny to see an ex-miner who has moaned in past posts about pit closures and destruction of communities and now complaining about coal fired power stations. There are still mines open in the country supplying these stations with coal keeping people in jobs. Two of them, Thoresby and Welbeck, are in my old stamping ground and my late BIL was a deputy at Welbeck.
Out of interest I checked to see how many of these coal fired power stations were in the UK. A total of 17.

It's not really supprising LB just a throwback from history, the power plants were sited where they are because of the proximity to the coalfields the bigger the coal field the more power stations. we have 5 within a 20 mile area thats almost 1/3 of the countries total.
While the pits were suppling the coal locally it did make economic sense but now the last pit is earmarked for closure due to the ready supply of cheaper imported fuel and the temporary supply from the now near exhausted strip/drift mining the coal fired power plants are becomming obsolete.
Had the events of the early 80s not taken place and as a consequence rendered the coalfields redundant the siting of any new power plants would have to be nearer the fuel source ie on the coast or in the wind farm senario a hill in the country side.

While areas like ours used to have almost 100% employment due to king coal all that has now gone. employment mainly being replaced by wharehousing and retail parks at a fraction of the total numbers employed before.
yes I am a ex miner but also a realist alternative power sources are a must for the future if the lights are to stay on. because when the old power stations close. and they will within the next 10/15 years (3 of ours are well past there sell by date allready) wind power may be bigger than you would think.

 

[Lord Braykewynde]

yes I am a ex miner but also a realist alternative power sources are a must for the future if the lights are to stay on. because when the old power stations close. and they will within the next 10/15 years (3 of ours are well past there sell by date allready) wind power may be bigger than you would think.

OK ya ol' tyke but you don't come up with an alternative solution.
Wind turbines aren't the answer. How do we lose land to accommodate all these turbines. Do the maths.
One power station = over 8000 turbines = an area 8.24 times the size of Glasgow.
That is like losing land to build another 8.24 cities and that is just to replace ONE power station. We cannot afford to lose land at this rate especially when you consider the country has to build a city the size of Nottingham every year just to house immigrants.
It's sheer madness.

 

[Lutz]

I find it difficult to understand how the 8.24 times the size of Glasgow was arrived at. Someone probably assumed that the land that the wind farm is built on is unusable for anything else. However, I've seen cows grazing quite peacefully under the rotors.

 

[Lord Braykewynde]

I find it difficult to understand how the 8.24 times the size of Glasgow was arrived at. Someone probably assumed that the land that the wind farm is built on is unusable for anything else. However, I've seen cows grazing quite peacefully under the rotors.

Quite simple really Lutz.
We are only a small island and to cover the countryside with wind turbines to an area 8.24 times the size of Glasgow just to replace one power station is sheer madness. It's like flooding the land all the way between Glasgow and Edinburgh with turbines. It matters not if cows graze underneath them or other wildlife feast on the dead birds that get caught on their nocturnal migrations they are a blot on the landscape and we don't have the land available to replace our power stations with turbines.

 

[Lutz]

If you had one built on the roof of your house to meet your own power needs you wouldn't need any extra land and one could shut down a couple of power stations at the same time.

 

[SpudDog57]

If you had one built on the roof of your house to meet your own power needs you wouldn't need any extra land and one could shut down a couple of power stations at the same time.

I would probably be kept awake by the droning hum of the blades turning and doubt that a wind turbine would offer much power where we live, we live in a very sheltrered location. Would the ice maker only work when the wind blew and my wife would only be likely to Iron my shirts in cyclone wind.
"Sorry the sunday roast is off" No wind today

I think power stations will not be closing for a long while yet. Imagine turbines on every suburb homes rooves, would that be any kinder on the eye?

 

[Lutz]

The suggestion wasn't meant to be taken that seriously. Few power stations will be closing (hopefully the nuclear ones first) and perhaps one or two will still be built, but someday we'll have to get accustomed to wind parks etc. in order to meet our needs, whether they are pretty or not.

 

[Lord Braykewynde]

"Sorry the sunday roast is off" No wind today

I think Lutz might have a point. There's plenty of wind in the Braykewynde household

 

[ValA.]

SpudDog57 wrote: "Sorry the

SpudDog57 wrote:

"Sorry the sunday roast is off" No wind today

I think Lutz might have a point. There's plenty of wind in the Braykewynde household

“If there is anyone on the forum whom I have not insulted, I apologise profusely. ”
Maybe we should all have personal windpowered generators? Lady B wants to iron - lunch is beans on toast, dinner is Chilli Con Carne - hey presto, plenty of power!

 

[Lord Braykewynde]

Maybe we should all have personal windpowered generators? Lady B wants to iron - lunch is beans on toast, dinner is Chilli Con Carne - hey presto, plenty of power!

No need for all of that Val. Just one vindaloo will power the house for a week

 

[colin-yorkshire1]

The suggestion wasn't meant to be taken that seriously. Few power stations will be closing (hopefully the nuclear ones first) and perhaps one or two will still be built, but someday we'll have to get accustomed to wind parks etc. in order to meet our needs, whether they are pretty or not.

perhaps Lutz's comments were made as a joke but there is some truth in it and in someway the point I was trying to make earlier some alternatives have to be found, take coal fired power plants as a example there have been 106 coalfired power plants comissioned since there heyday of king coal, at present 18 are still active with 4 due to be decomissioned in the next 6 years, That means 88 of them have allready gone. some of the shortfall has been taken up with nuclear gas and oil fired power plants but it is still not enough. fossil fuels take millions of years to make but can be exhausted within a few decades. Nuclear plants do have there own unique problems as illustrated by the accidents, at "3mile island" "chenobyl" and now at "fukushima".
so renewable sources of energy have to be taken seriously not made a joke of no one is suggesting wind power could meet 100% of the power generation required to keep the lights on but it has to be part of it and if that means sticking a turbine on every hill in the country we may have to do it.

 

[SpudDog57]

Nuclear powers France aand they own quite a blit of your Brit power do they not, and the wind turbines seem to be doing very little. Nuclear is the way to go, it just has to be built in the right place with the right safety back up. You can't rely on gas and coal or wind.