Winter drain down and floe apparatus ?

[saint-spoon]

I was chatting to a colleague at work about draining the caravan water system down before the first frosts to prevent the pipes from freezing; as a marine engineering type by profession I am fully conversant with the problems that we can get with liquids collecting in bends and low spots in pipework. Anyway, I took at look at the kit designed to blow the system through and reckon that floe asking £45+ for a connector and bit of plastic hose is a bit steep. Does anyone use this kit? Has anyone come up with an alternative? And any recommendations on how to get all of the water out of the system?
Cheers in advance team, you have thus far been a great help.

 

[Gabsgrandad]

I made my own some years ago, at zero cost, all the 'bits' were already in the garage and just needed 'amending'. Pictures below of the bits, has been working for years does the job perfectly. Using the vans own pump attachment,a bit of an old pump,the connecting plastic bit, and a bit of suitable pipe. (mine was actually off the stylus arm of an old record player! Bonus it being chromed)

 

[brian_c]

Hello Saint Spoon.
I have one of the Flo kits. I got it has a present so I don't think I would have justified the cost to myself if not.
Having said that it really does shift a fair amount of static water from the system.
That is after all the taps open and drain valve open for any return journey from site.

My previous method of winterising the fresh water system was to rely on the trip home with taps and valve open as stated I must say that in quite a few years my method has worked because I've not yet had any issues with freezing up.

So the Flo system in my case is probably a bit of belts and braces. It's actually redundant now though because we have sold the caravan and downsized to a van which is much older with a different Whale water inlet the same goes for my nearly new Alko Hitchlock so I suppose both items will be finding their way to Free Adds shortly.
Whilst I appreciate the Flo system does shift a fair drop of water I won't be getting another one.

If I come across any bits and pieces to enable me to knock up my own in the way Gabs grandad has done then I should say it would be a worthwhile exercise would give me the belts and braces security again

Best regards Brian

 

[saint-spoon]

Cheers chaps. I am going to have a think about it and come up with something of my own I suspect; I am pretty sure that an airbed compressor with an attachment to fit the water inlet will do the job… if not back to the drawing board so to speak.

 

[brian_c]

Just be aware the maximum recommended pressure for the operation is 15 PSI (Fifteen)

 

[carper2]

I was given one for Christmasa couple of years ago. It does a good job and has possibly saved me a lot of worry about my pipes freezing.

Les

 

[Gagakev]

As Brian has said watch out for the PSI, does your airbed compressor have a read out?

I have one of the floe kits, as I didnt have any spares ( or the time ) at the time to make one up, my way of thinking was at £45.00 it was loads cheaper than having and replacing a burst pipe.

 

[Spurtle]

The Floe system is much like most other bits of equipment that are marketed to do a specific job, in that if you are technically minded you can put together a system that will do exactly the same thing, for seemingly a fraction of the cost. The hidden cost being your time of course.

If you are a technical type of chap and have time to put something together it's a useful thing to do, as anything that makes sure that drain-down is done throroughly is a good thing.

I don't do a vast amount of drain-downs but I have a full set of Floe adaptors as it is much easier for me to turn up to do the job and not have to rake around in a box full of pipes/hoses/clips and other bits and bobs , until I eventually end up with the right combination.

As has already been mentioned , watching the air pressure is important. I fitted a second regulator to the side of my compressor that I can connect the air line to as required.... It is limited to 1bar maximum output pressure, so should leave all the water system joints exactly as they should be.....still connected..

 

[ajbyorkshireman]

Ive read that using an old submersible pump with the electrics disconnected and the pump replaced with a tyre valve works as well.
Tho yes the 15 psi is to be aware of.
Not tried it yet as we use the van thro the winter.

 

[Jules_ht]

Provided there is enough air in the system to allow some expansion room for the remaining water you're not going to have a problem with the pipes, are you?

 

[WoodlandsCamper]

There were very few reports of frozen pipe problems (in 30 odd years) before Floe started marketing in the last couple of years, so the choice is up to you.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Provided there is enough air in the system to allow some expansion room for the remaining water you're not going to have a problem with the pipes, are you?

Hello Jules,

Its not so much the pipes, as they are plastic and do have considerable elasticity, its the various fitting that are used like non return valves or taps and pressure switches, not forgetting filters and water heaters.

Water retained in some of these has nowhere to go without moving some component, and that is what usually happens, things like 'O' ring seals get dislodged, plastic housing can be distorted or sometime split so the fitting is no longer capable of performing the function it is designed to do.

Water heaters, if the tank has any remaining water, the top will freeze first and that may prevent the water from below expanding upwards, so it expands sideways and that may cause damage.

If a caravan is in use, then the caravan structure will absorbed some heat, and that heat takes roughly 24 hours to dissipate after last use. So for frost damage to arise, it will usually only happen when the caravan is not being used, and if there are sustained low temperatures for more than 24 hours.

The only sensible thing to do is to drain the entire system if you are not using the caravan for more than couple of days and freezing conditions are likely to occur.

 

[Jules_ht]

The only sensible thing to do is to drain the entire system if you are not using the caravan for more than couple of days and freezing conditions are likely to occur.

Makes sense, and I do that (in as much as opening the drain tap and all the interior taps drains the system).

Does anyone who has not blown all the water out have any direct experience of problems with their water systems due to cold?

A device like this hadn't even crossed my mind until I read this thread!

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello Jules,

The simple answer is yes they have, in the types of components I mentioned above. It was also the case that quite a number of Carver Cascade 2's suffered problems with the heaters non return valves fitted to their inputs, because owners had not fully drained down. Water filters if frozen will often release grains of carbon that get stuck in various valves, Pressure switches with stretched diaphragms.

I have come across all these issues in customers caravans, and all due to incomplete draining followed by frosts.

 

[Hutch]

Hi Jules, a couple of years ago, I had drained down the system by just opening the drains and opening taps, but a snap freeze, managed to burst the plastic fitting behind the truma inlet to the van,
I use the van all year round , but drain down the system, After every trip by takeing the filter out and using the flexy end of a push on water filling hose, over the sink tap, blow down the pipe, alternate between hot and cold selaected on the taps. This removes a surprising amount of water from the system. Also a little bit of anti freeze or salt down the shower drain if you have a U bend there.
Hutch,☺

 

[saint-spoon]

Thank you EH. I had a similar idea using the airpump that cam e with the airtex awning to blow down the shower hose; it has a pressure gauge on it so no over pressurising. It seemed to shift a lot of water. I’m off out in the van with the wife and kids this coming weekend so I might give the tap adaptor a bash as well. I am still looking at a way of going in from the water inlet to the water heater so as to ensure that it is fully drained. Funnily the hand book says nothing about draining down. Off topic a bit, I once descaled the hot water pipe to my bathroom sink using a tap adaptor from an aquarium water purifier, a bicycle pump and a bottle of viakal. I had a chunk of scale that was blocking the pipe and reducing the flow so much that the boiler wouldn’t kick in; improvise, adapt and overcome.

 

[NigelHutson]

Several years ago (many!), I was caught out by a cold snap, and whilst we were very fortunate that no lasting damage was done to the caravan, one of the joints feeding the shower separated. Fortunately that joint was behind the shower tap, so the leaking water only ran into the shower tray and nowhere else.

Since then, whenever we've put the caravan to bed following a winter outing, I removed the shower head and with all drain taps open blew as much water out as possible. However, a couple of years ago I was bought a Floe kit, and wouldn't be without it (or something that does the same) now. As an experiment, I once tried to clear the system using the "windbag" (me) system, and then the Floe. It was amazing how much water came out when using the Floe.

Expensive, maybe. But it does the job, and what's more gets rid of water that could harbour bugs.

 

[Raywood]

I always drain down the system before leaving the site and leave the mixer taps open on half hot and cold and blow down them. I leave the drain valve open so that on the road home the movement should clear any remaining pockets of water.
If you are on grass do not let very hot water out or you will kill the grass.

 

[bertieboy1]

What did we all do before his device came on the market
I've never had freezing pipes problems in 25 years using conventional draining down methods for winter.

 

[Fellwalker]

After our last trip we drained down the caravan as usual and left water heater plug open for the journey home. At the weekend we used our floe to remove any water that may be still in the pipes before winter sets in .Its amazing how much water still remains in the pipes after you think it's all drained out, a pint and a half we got out of our system which potentially could of froze over winter. Even though I'm of the same opinion that the floe device is expensive for what it is, I wouldn't be without it. There's no debate use the floe or chance having frozen pipes and costly repairs. Better safe than sorry I say

 

[pitpony]

Just been down to the caravan to drain my system down, first of all I went to a local tyre company who gave me a extra long valve for free , because I have a Truma inlet hose I removed the plastic end and fitted my valve with a jubilee clip, then I proceeded to carry out the system drain down removing a good 33% of a basin full of water, removed the valve and put back on the plastic end all for free,

 

[Robtel]

I've been using the Floe kit for the last few years and reckon it is a good idea, if you can rig up something similar cheaper ( or even for free) even better.
In my home area we seem to be in a location prone to heavy and prolonged frost, minus 15 is not uncommon and minus 20 is not unheard of. Prior to using the Floe I only ever had one instance of a plastic connection bursting but still prefer to take no chances and drain down as much as is possible. Similar to others, before leaving the site I open the drain valve and taps but still find the Floe gets a significant amount if water out when used on return home. I use it after outings all season not just for a winter drain down rather than have stagnant water sitting in dips or bends of the water piping. I have on a couple of occasions been a bit tardy in draining and when eventually getting round to it the water that was expelled was of a colour that you would not really want to be drinking. Well worth the small extra effort in my opinion but each to their own methods.

 

[KeefySher]

At last Years NEC show Floe were doing a show offer that brought the price down by half if I recall correctly.

Being our first caravan decided it was worth buying. On the MH owned for the previous 9 years had suffered frozen water pump and burst connections through not being disciplined enough to fully drain the system.

Since buying the Floe, although we use the caravan all year, it is so simple and quick a drain down and blow through at each return home has become common practice. Using a 12v air pump that has a gauge on it makes simple work. I stand outside in the cold holding the floe and pump, the better half stays inside in the warm and opens each tap, drain, close, tell me to operate pump and move on to next tap.

The cost of the Floe is far less than that of finding bursts, going to dealer if required, faffing about getting parts etc.

You know it makes sense

 

[WoodlandsCamper]

If laying up the van for the winter it isn't only the water pipes that need to be drained in case of freezing conditions. Don't forget:

Drain the toilet header tank
Empty the toilet waste tank
Remove any bottles of toilet chemicals
Remove bottles of liquid (and possibly tin cans) from the kitchen cupboards and fridge
Remove any liquids from the front locker
Drink any alcohol left over
etc

When we came back from the Woosiefest the OH found a very expanded can of drink from the back of the fridge. It appears that at the very back things freeze. It's a good job drinks cans are recessed top and bottom and can take the expansion.

 

[pitpony]

If laying up the van for the winter it isn't only the water pipes that need to be drained in case of freezing conditions. Don't forget:

Drain the toilet header tank
Empty the toilet waste tank
Remove any bottles of toilet chemicals
Remove bottles of liquid (and possibly tin cans) from the kitchen cupboards and fridge
Remove any liquids from the front locker
Drink any alcohol left over
etc

When we came back from the Woosiefest the OH found a very expanded can of drink from the back of the fridge. It appears that at the very back things freeze. It's a good job drinks cans are recessed top and bottom and can take the expansion.

Which way other than using the draining pipe from the toilet header tank do you remove all the water from the toilet system for the winter,