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WLTP . MPG and KWh Manufacturers Claimd

Dustydog

Dustydog

With MPG I grasped a 50 mpg claim was more like sat 40 ish.
KWh sadly lost on me. But no problem.

All still list the manufacturers claimed range on a full tank or charge.

The new MB GLC 400 4 Matic Premium lists range at 406 miles,
A few journalists borrowed one for review.
They managed a range of 231 miles 🙀

Any ideas why such a disparity?
 
Top Gear and Electrifying both got around 360 miles range I summer conditions, but expected it to drop to 300 miles in winter even though it has a heat pump system for heating/cooling. Difficult to explain your figures compared to Top Gear and Electrifying’s figures. But auto express shows 250 miles but expects much better when not driven by leaden footed journalists. Could it be down to driving style and conditions.
 
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My daughter is getting used to her new electric mini. The claimed range is 250 ish miles. But after charging to 100% it displays a range of 160. I think that BMW argue that this range is adjusted to their driving style. Use of air con etc. However, they are pleased that they actually get more like 200. They are still learning though.

John
 
I’ve just spoken to my grandson who recently went from a Tesla Model Y long range AWD to the more budget focused Model 3 and his WLTP is 332 miles and currently the car is showing 284 miles range at 94% charged. Like John says about the Mini the Tesla app learns from the drivers style. This is my grandsons third Tesla and he’s never seen range as an issue even going to Stirling his recharge coincided with their rest stop and touring Scotland range and charge were not an issue either.
 
otherclive said:
Top Gear and Electrifying both got around 360 miles range I summer conditions, but expected it to drop to 300 miles in winter even though it has a heat pump system for heating/cooling. Difficult to explain your figures compared to Top Gear and Electrifying’s figures. But auto express shows 250 miles but expects much better when not driven by leaden footed journalists. Could it be down to driving style and conditions.
Click to expand...
Which? Motoring journalists.
How do we know who,to believe?
 
Dustydog said:
Which? Motoring journalists.
How do we know who,to believe?
Click to expand...
Auto Express were referring to their test driving journalists. I believe both as any vehicles economy is governed by the driver, road conditions and journey. Is it any difference to a petrol/diesel car? My grandsons Tesla isn’t that far off it’s WLTP, but may be affected by the fact his partner does most day to day driving between Chippenham and north Bristol. But at the end of the day the harmonised WLTP cannot replicate all possible combinations of driving. What it does do is allow a comparison between different vehicles all tested against the same standardised criteria.
 
The disparity between claimed and achieved struck me as concerning. Even MPG variations were never so different
 
The WLTP is an idealised measurement and does not represent realistic driving conditions. For as long as I can remember, car manufacturers have been able to quote range (EV and Dino juice models) based on government approved conditions. It's a means of comparison between vehicles, rather than a truley realistic assesment of fuel consumption.

Naturally vehicle manufacturers want to be able to show their models off in the kindest way, so they will tend to optimise their performance around these official measurements. This requires a change of driving style.

Move away from those idealised conditions, and fuel efficiency drops off.

There are a number of reviewers who have chosen to promote EV's and I suspect their driving styles may be kinder, than the reviewer's who have preferred ICE vehicles. Unconsciously the petrol heads may use more energy by choosing to accelerate harder during reviews which uses more energy.

The fact is every one drives differently, and will likely achieve variations in efficiency.
 
Dustydog said:
The disparity between claimed and achieved struck me as concerning. Even MPG variations were never so different
Click to expand...
If you read the Top Gear and Electrifying reviews the disparity isn’t so great at around 360 miles during summer driving. So who to believe ?
 
otherclive said:
If you read the Top Gear and Electrifying reviews the disparity isn’t so great at around 360 miles during summer driving. So who to believe ?
Click to expand...
Son’s Volvo EV. Is quite a way off the so called published official figures. But this is dependant on the time of year.

Hot summer , use of the air con eats the battery.

Winter , heated seats , windscreen and the cabin eats the battery
Spring / autumn not too bad but he’s never achieved the official figure. Nor have most of us on the Fossil fuels.
And those who charge their mobile phones in their EV on the road🙀🙀

As and when I decide to have an EV I’d like to test drive it for at least two days and try all aspects. The truth , good or bad will no doubt materialise😎
 
Dustydog said:
With MPG I grasped a 50 mpg claim was more like sat 40 ish.
KWh sadly lost on me. But no problem.

All still list the manufacturers claimed range on a full tank or charge.

The new MB GLC 400 4 Matic Premium lists range at 406 miles,
A few journalists borrowed one for review.
They managed a range of 231 miles 🙀

Any ideas why such a disparity?
Click to expand...
I am assuming the above is a PHEV, you have to change your driving style and learn how to get the best out of a EV/PHEV/Hybrid after a while it becomes second nature.
 
Oscarmax said:
I am assuming the above is a PHEV, you have to change your driving style and learn how to get the best out of a EV/PHEV/Hybrid after a while it becomes second nature.
Click to expand...
No it’s all electric.

Honest John gives a table showing makers and models and gives WLTP figures plus owner figures. There’s differences between the official figures and owner figures for ICE, hybrid, PHEV and EV. As I said in my above post and Prof John too, these tests are only a comparator and not real world figures. But the 231 mile range reported by Dusty is much lower cf WTLP than would be expected. Might be anti EV journalists 🙈
 
otherclive said:
No it’s all electric.

Honest John gives a table showing makers and models and gives WLTP figures plus owner figures. There’s differences between the official figures and owner figures for ICE, hybrid, PHEV and EV. As I said in my above post and Prof John too, these tests are only a comparator and not real world figures. But the 231 mile range reported by Dusty is much lower cf WTLP than would be expected. Might be anti EV journalists 🙈
Click to expand...
I was hoping people like Tobes could give their real life experiences. Journalists are not long term users and probably paint their own picture for the wrong reasons.
The other factors like aircon and heaters appear to be ignored 🤔
 
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Dustydog said:
I was hoping people like Tobes could give their real life experiences. Journalists are not long term users and probably paint their own picture for the wrong reasons.
The other factors like aircon and heaters appear to be ignored 🤔
Click to expand...
This came from Tobes wrt his Polestar 2. Its range solo is less than WTLP, but later posts detailing his polestar 4 show increased towing range but he doesn’t detail the solo range that he gets during normal use.

I seem to recall him also writing that heat pump cooling doesnt have a large effect on range, but as a heater does improve range cf a resistive heater. With the newer battery systems charging times are much reduced, and statistics still show the majority of charging is done at home or workplace on cheaper electricity.

By Tobes
Agree. 2 to 2.5 hours behind the wheel when towing is more than enough for me.
Worth noting, my older P2 had a WLTP of 273 miles, I could achieve 190 to 210 solo and 130 to 140 towing. Of course - your mileage may vary!


This is a week long review in winter of the Polestar 4

www.greencarguide.co.uk

Polestar 4 Long Range Dual Motor Review - GreenCarGuide.co.uk

The Polestar 4 may have hit the headlines for having no rear window, but the big news is that it’s the most agile and fastest Polestar yet.
www.greencarguide.co.uk www.greencarguide.co.uk
 
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I realise this is a bit of thread drift, but I have read somewhere where some journalists have been threatened by some of the new Chinese brands about posting any negative comments regarding their products. If this is true, then how can you believe any review of recent products?

And I still have concerns about most of the Chinese car brands in so far no reviews I have seen so far look at the longer term ownership issues of these brands. For example whilst some of the brands claim to have class leading warranty's, they are so new, we have little evidence of how well they are set up to be able to support those warranty's, in fact we have heard of how some cars have had a warrantable problem, but the companies are unable to get the necessary spares in the UK rendering the car unusable.

Some of us will remember the Hugh problem several of the Japanese, and later Korean manufactures had with body corrosion with the first models they introduced to the UK. How do the Chinese manufacturers cope with UK conditions?

What I have seen is how many of the most recent imports seem to be loaded with technology, but how competently has that been developed and proven?
 
I thought that the bigger magazines purchased the cars in cognito. Mind you I don’t think caravan or motorhome magazines purchase their test vehicles, which may explain why really critical shortcomings aren’t reported. WRT corrosion I’m quite sure the main Chinese brands are on a par with western, Japanese and Korean standards. After all many western car makes have been built in China for some years now. Most VW Golf’s exported to the Pacific region have been built in China, along with other brands. Currently VAG and Stellantis are discussing with Chinese makers the possibility taking up nearly a million under used build slots in their factories. “ Taking tea with the Devil”

My main concern would be dealer support when things go wrong, or repairability following an accident, whether major or minor. WRT technolgy how often have we read of western or Asian brands having issues in that area. An example springs to mind of Buckman’s Yaris, Lexus and Tucson. My daughter and granddaughter both have MGs and the infotainment systems are far better than my RAV4 which is lumbering to say the least.

List of foreign brand vehicles made by automobile manufacturers of China - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org
 
Our electric car has a published range of 220 miles. At full charge the best it ever shows on the Range meter is 185 miles.
In winter this range meter mileage drops from 185 in a startling manner in the first few miles but the last 40 miles of Range meter drops very slowly. We are probably only getting 160 miles in winter.
To be honest we have never compared the Range mileage readings with actual miles driven. It seems about right overall but the drop in Range meter miles does not really correlate with actual miles driven in a sensible linear fashion.
I believe the technical term for a Range meter in EV circles is GOM- Guessometer.
Mel
 
Oh you poor things. Is it 200, is 300, is it 400?

Filled up my dirty diesel car a couple of days back and the computer indicated a range of 845 miles.

Would have been about half of that if towing.

Charge and weep 😉
 
Looking back here , rightly or wrongly. I have always assumed Which? Tests on items were well structured, impartial and on whole accurate.
Clive has quoted other tests / results which are at variance to Which?

How can we determine which review is the most accurate?
I checked out Which? Criteria for testing ,

The following seems reasonable 🤔

www.which.co.uk

How we test cars - Which?

Every car we review is subjected to hundreds of tests in our lab and on the road. Find out why you can trust our reviews, and how they help you choose the best car (and avoid the worst)
www.which.co.uk www.which.co.uk
 
Dustydog said:
Looking back here , rightly or wrongly. I have always assumed Which? Tests on items were well structured, impartial and on whole accurate.
Clive has quoted other tests / results which are at variance to Which?

How can we determine which review is the most accurate?
I checked out Which? Criteria for testing ,

The following seems reasonable 🤔

www.which.co.uk

How we test cars - Which?

Every car we review is subjected to hundreds of tests in our lab and on the road. Find out why you can trust our reviews, and how they help you choose the best car (and avoid the worst)
www.which.co.uk www.which.co.uk
Click to expand...
So how did other EVs ranges compare to the WLTC figures when tested by WHICH? Was the MB you quoted comparable in its reduction compared to WLTC or particularly bad?
 
Talking to son about his E XC60 he asked if the journalists have an 80 % or 100% charged battery. Volvo recommended not charging above 80% . May be claimed figures are based on a100% charge🤔
 
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