World has gone bonkers.

[otherclive]

Our daughters new Corolla has arrived with the lease company for her to collect next week. So she is now getting valuations on her 2014 Focus. One company Motorway have offered her a guaranteed price based on lots of photographs, scans of service receipts etc. The guaranteed price is £450 more than Webuyamy car who would be likely to reduce their valuation on account of a cracked rear light and a re sprayed area on the near side rear. Motorway then put the car out to dealerships who bid for the car. So the realised price may be above the guaranteed valuation.

For interest I valued my wife’s Kia Rio and at £8835 it is almost £1500 more than we paid 2.5 years ago from the Kia dealership. My car was £800 less than I paid in November 2019. Clearly thirsty Subaru‘s aren’t top of the trade‘s purchasing league table. My wife is now very keen to go down to one car. 😱 Shock horror, she wants the Subaru.

 

[Jcloughie]

When I bought my car in 2016 I had a low mileage 2015 SsangYong Korando. Volvo told me they did not want the px and therefore made me a poor offer. So I tried ‘We Buy Any Car’. Their inspection found minor faults, genuine but only what most cars have. Their offer was even worse than Volvo. I then tried the SsangYong dealership. They offered £1000 more just over the phone. They had a cursory look when I took it in and immediately did a bank transfer and offered me a lift home. Happy days.

In 1972 I bought a 1955 MG Magnette ZA off a neighbour for £12:50. Poor paintwork but solid and drove very well and served me well. I px’d it a couple of years later and got £25. 100%.


John

 

[Beachball]

I also did that behind my wife back on her 2008 Mitsubishi Colt We buy any car they offered a great deal over the phone they said with it low mileage and service history . so when she is ready to exchange we know where to take it .

 

[Buckman]

It seems that our 9 year old year old Jeep grand Cherokee bought in 2018 is now worth a lot more. Last year we insured it for £12k, but similar lower spec vehicles with a higher mileage are now in the £15k range.

 

[otherclive]

It seems that our 9 year old year old Jeep grand Cherokee bought in 2018 is now worth a lot more. Last year we insured it for £12k, but similar lower spec vehicles with a higher mileage are now in the £15k range.

Our insurance is for market value so we don’t need to think about any adjustments to the policy.

 

[Buckman]

Our insurance is for market value so we don’t need to think about any adjustments to the policy.

We are with AXA so contacted them and had the value increased to £16k. Cost an additional £1.83.

 

[Jcloughie]

Value increase will only really benefit people parting with their car or perhaps downgrading. But out of interest I looked anyway, mine is worth similar to what I paid for it 5 years ago, I think. It was hard to judge as there are so very few for sale nationally. On the flip side. Those newer models which I fancy, have increases in value even more. Far more in fact.

I could sell and buy a run around. Then upgrade in a year or so when prices have returned to the pre covid equivalent. But I couldn’t be botherd.


John

 

[littlebasher]

In the Autumn, i wanted rid of one of our cars on PCP. I didn't initially think to go down the WBAC route, and contacted the finance company to see about handing it back. They wanted £600 to return the car and end the agreement, subject to any damage that they found which was chargeable.

My wife suggested WBAC, so filled in their quote form (the couple of marks on the car being listed), they offered me £2K more than the finance redemption figure!

So took the car down 10 mins later, they checked it over and didn't quibble the price, then it was gone. 5 days later the finance was settled and they transferred me my share

Win!

 

[otherclive]

My daughter collects the new Corolla on Friday, and her Focus should be collected the following week. She has been unable to insure the new car through her present insurer as they do not insure lease vehicles. No problem though finding an insurer for the new car. But when she spoke to her existing insurer they have a £75 cancellation fee that well exceeds the value of her remaining insurance. What a rip off. So she plans to just keep the existing Focus insurance running until it expires in mid March.

Is this allowed or could it cause problems for the next owner of the Focus when they go to insure it if her insurance is still in place when she is no longer the owner or registered keeper.

 

[Buckman]

My daughter collects the new Corolla on Friday, and her Focus should be collected the following week. She has been unable to insure the new car through her present insurer as they do not insure lease vehicles. No problem though finding an insurer for the new car. But when she spoke to her existing insurer they have a £75 cancellation fee that well exceeds the value of her remaining insurance. What a rip off. So she plans to just keep the existing Focus insurance running until it expires in mid March.

Is this allowed or could it cause problems for the next owner of the Focus when they go to insure it if her insurance is still in place when she is no longer the owner or registered keeper.

That charge is ridiculous as it is not her fault that they do not insure lease cars. Why can't she cancel and walk away and refuse to pay the £75 unless the policy was being paid by monthly DD?
I don't think it is illegal to have more than one insurance on a vehicle as long as you only claim on the one.

 

[Dustydog]

“when she is no longer the owner or registered keeper”.


Therein lies the answer. At point of sale she ceases to have an Insurable interest in the car nor does she have legal title. The policy could not and would not pay out.
Cancellation fees are common place today , I don’t like them.
However, I wonder if there is a way out? In good faith your daughter has tried to insure her new car with them.They have now told her no because it is a leased vehicle. Was this made clear to her at inception? If not there is a strong argument that the insurer is introducing new unfavourable terms to the insurance contract. Whilst not a lot of money I think a good worded letter pointing out the contractual error may change the insurers mind.

 

[otherclive]

“when she is no longer the owner or registered keeper”.


Therein lies the answer. At point of sale she ceases to have an Insurable interest in the car nor does she have legal title. The policy could not and would not pay out.
Cancellation fees are common place today , I don’t like them.
However, I wonder if there is a way out? In good faith your daughter has tried to insure her new car with them.They have now told her no because it is a leased vehicle. Was this made clear to her at inception? If not there is a strong argument that the insurer is introducing new unfavourable terms to the insurance contract. Whilst not a lot of money I think a good worded letter pointing out the contractual error may change the insurers mind.

Thanks for the feedback. She has been with her present insurer for a number of years, and doubtless each year the T&C will have been issued. But the chance of a lease car has cropped up relatively recently. Certainly a change to the policy states £75 admin fee (Rip off). Once the Focus has been sold she will notify DVLA as per the V5, and has no further insured or ownership interest in the car. She’s not sure if just leaving the policy to expire could prevent a new owner insuring it. My advice was wait and see. If the new owner has problems they would have to get back to her via the dealership they had bought the car from.

 

[Jcloughie]

Two things in my opinion.

First the cancellation fee with regards to the situation. It is excessive, particularly as it is of greater value than the remaining term of insurance and indefensible. As to whether it can legally be avoided though I don’t know.

But if she simply refused to pay she could be in breach of contract. But that might not be pursued. But if it is it might affect credit ratings and possibly black listing from that insurance company in the future.

Second. I can see no reason why there would be any problem for a new owner. As, when transferring ownership she will not be registered to that vehicle. After all, garages own insurance allows them to drive customers cars.

I would suggest a polite letter to the said companies customer service asking for an explanation and a reasonable settlement figure, stating that she was willing to stay with them if their terms had allowed. Or ask for the credit for the outstanding insurance period to be issued.

John

 

[otherclive]

My daughter has spoken to her insurer and whilst the policy T&Cs do not say anything about lease cars it is their policy not to insure lease cars. When she first applied to insure her Focus (assuming it was a lease car) with them had she input that she was the registered keeper but not the registered owner the insurance would have been declined.
They are considering the cancellation fee and will get back to her. But it seems running the insurance to its expiry date when you no longer own the car is not likely to affect the new owners ability to insure the car. The key seems to get the V5 change of ownership in quickly to show transfer to a motor dealer and refund tax. After that any new owner will require insurance to tax it.

 

[Dustydog]

My daughter has spoken to her insurer and whilst the policy T&Cs do not say anything about lease cars it is their policy not to insure lease cars. When she first applied to insure her Focus (assuming it was a lease car) with them had she input that she was the registered keeper but not the registered owner the insurance would have been declined.
They are considering the cancellation fee and will get back to her. But it seems running the insurance to its expiry date when you no longer own the car is not likely to affect the new owners ability to insure the car. The key seems to get the V5 change of ownership in quickly to show transfer to a motor dealer and refund tax. After that any new owner will require insurance to tax it.

Where does that leave the thousands who fund their cars via a PCP

 

[otherclive]

Where does that leave the thousands who fund their cars via a PCP

Taken from a guide by Parkers:

In the UK there are separate concepts of ‘owner’ and ‘keeper’, and some insurance companies will not insure a car that is paid for through PCP, while others may put the premium up as a result.
But as PCP contracts account for such a large chunk of car sales, this is rapidly changing. So, if one company won't insure you, there are dozens of others that will.



Seems my daughter has her current insurer that will not insure her new lease car. That’s no big deal as she’s okay in finding insurance for the new car, it’s the faff and £75 cost of terminating the insurance on her current non lease car, and not being able to continue with the same insurer, for the new car.

 

[otherclive]

Eventually my daughter sold her 2014 Focus using Sellcar. After contacting them one afternoon the agent visited the next morning. He goes over the car and paperwork very comprehensively , taking photos and videos. He then went to his car and uploaded everything to the company website. They have many car dealerships who use Sellcar to source and offer suitable cars so the Focus was put up for offers and immediately two Ford dealerships made bids. But they didn’t reach what she wanted, one saying it’s service was due in June!! So she rejected them and let the clock run. The agent went back to the bidders and the bid increased but still not enough. Eventually one broke ranks and the bid exceeded her selling price. The final bid price was £800 more than initial bid. She agreed it and shortly after a deposit of £500 was in her account. The balance will be paid on collection which was arranged quickly afterwards. Any discrepancies in it’s described condition is between Sellcar and the successful bidder, no further examinations required.

The price she got was above Motorway guaranteed minimum and only just below WBAcar.com. But their price was for an immaculate car and whilst in very good condition with FFSH WBA would have deducted and there was their £100 commission to pay on sale to WBAcom.

I find it quite surprising that two main dealerships are so keen to buy a 2014 car. It’s not so long ago that anything over 3-4 years was moved on in the trade.

 

[Raywood]

I think the cancelation charge should be reasonable and they would have to justify it,. I would be tempted to write a formal complaint with a threat of using the Ombudsman if there is no satisfactory answer. Might even be worth a Small Claims summons just to annoy them. It would cost so much to defend that they would probably just pay it or negotiate it down.

 

[otherclive]

I really do not think that a single working parent and doing a degree et al would be too keen to take an Insurer to court., or even the Ombudsman, given the constraints on her time. Yes the £75 is unreasonable and far outweighs the remaining value of the insurance which expires in early March. She has now sold the Focus, and found an alternative insurer for the new lease car, which she collects tomorrow. So she might have a go at the unreasonable insurer next week, but if no joy will just let it expire naturally. This is one thing Dad doesn't plan to pick up. The lease car means that there is at least one "millstone" that I can say goodbye too.

 

[Buckman]

I really do not think that a single working parent and doing a degree et al would be too keen to take an Insurer to court., or even the Ombudsman. Yes the £75 is unreasonable and far outweighs the remaining value of the insurance which expires in early March. She has now sold the Focus, and found an alternative insurer for the new lease car, which she collects tomorrow. So she might have a go at the unreasonable insurer next week, but if no joy will just let it expire naturally. This is one thing Dad doesn't plan to pick up.

If daughter has exhausted all complaint avenues with the insurer regarding the excessive charge and then raises the issue with the Ombudsman, the Ombudsman charges the insurer £500 or more.
Most insurance companies would prefer if the matter were not escalated to the Ombudsman and will back down. Therefore in the final complaint letter to the insurer, the daughter states that she has exhausted all avenues and will be raising the issue with Ombudsman, at that point they may back down.
May be worth a punt if insurer refuses to budge on their excessive charge assuming that the premium was not paid monthly by DD.

 

[otherclive]

I will pass on the advice to give her something to do between work, home and university studies. 😀
She will be getting back to the insurer next week, and she can be quite ferocious in her determination not to be seen off on things. Complaint avenues are taking ages these days and the schedule of charges does say £75.

 

[Buckman]

I will pass on the advice to give her something to do between work, home and university studies. 😀
She will be getting back to the insurer next week, and she can be quite ferocious in her determination not to be seen off on things. Complaint avenues are taking ages these days and the schedule of charges does say £75.

However she had no choice except to cancel so in those circumstances it may be an Unfair Clause?

 

[otherclive]

However she had no choice except to cancel so in those circumstances it may be an Unfair Clause?

I’ve spoken to her and her plan is to phone the insurer next week and insist that she talks to a manager. Whether that succeeds or not she will carefully spell out her intended action. This would be use the Complainant procedure, Ombudsman if required and letting them know that this will incur them in more cost than the query is worth. This will all be recorded by the insurers system.

As an aside earlier this week she needed an emergency vets consultation for one of the giant Lops. This was at 1400 and the vets closed at 1500 on the Saturday. They said she couldn’t have one and to contact her insurer. The insurers refused given the rabbits vets were still open. So she persuaded them to see the rabbit. Everything went fine. But this morning she got a letter telling her that because of a breakdown in the Customer and Practice relationship they no longer wished to provide veterinary care to her pets. . She was furious and put a superb email back to the vet copy to Head Office. Strong but polite. Two hours later she was reinstated. It seemed that the Receptionist felt she’d been pressurised into agreeing an emergency consultation. But she’s now moving from that supermarket based practice anyway.

 

[Buckman]

But she’s now moving from that supermarket based practice anyway.

Strangely enough we had a similar issue, but only a warning because we complained. We had an old cat that was ill and said to them that if it was bad to put her down out of pain. £400 later and being told that there was no issue we took cat home. Two days later she died anyway.
We now use a proper vet for all our animals as we got the impression that many of the "vets" at the supermarket place were trainees.