i did......answer was ....................we are not allowed to sell a caravan to a customer whos towcar could not legally tow the caravan concerned.........whether thats an in house thing or a mandate from some other body i dont know.
Lutz, not a generalisation, because as stated it was specific to me, however 87% of caravan behind you is still significant, and not to be carried out without caution. I also tow a 22 foot rib on a unbraked trailer , which weighs just under 750kg's again I tow with caution and we are talking 43% ratio and without any real turbulance issues. In my opinon all this talk of 100% ratio car to caravan, is a compromise to safety, and a situation you find your self in, unless money or tow car/caravan choice is unlimited. Obviously there are many factors affecting stability, and you would appear to be a authority on many of them. As before my personel opinion,and experience which has consisted of 2 single axles and 2 double axles. Across france and Spain, too many times to remember.
Hi,
Surely DVLA only refer to UNLADEN weight, for Group B only licences? It the caravan club who refer to kerb-weight.
602
Surely DVLA only refer to UNLADEN weight, for Group B only licences? It the caravan club who refer to kerb-weight.
602
Yes, the DVLA refer to the unladen weight of the towcar but this is not documented anywhere. However, the law will eventually be updated to reflect current terminology, which is either 'Mass in Service', as stated in the V5c certificate, or MIRO, which is the term used in the EU Directive, but which the same as 'Mass in Service'. The term 'kerbweight' has never appeared in law and will not be used.
I have been informed that the DVLA already interprets unladen weight to be 'Mass in Service' or MIRO, even though the law has not yet been changed.
I have been informed that the DVLA already interprets unladen weight to be 'Mass in Service' or MIRO, even though the law has not yet been changed.
Hi Chipie.
I've towed for about twenty years at 100% of the tow capacity of my cars and have had no major problems.
Twin axle vans need to be loaded just as carefully as single axle vans the real benefit in having 4 wheels is that they inherantly want to go straight and offer pivotal resistance, so tend to reduce swaying.
From the legal point of view, as long as the gross train weight (caravan + car + all occupants incl driver + luggage and fuel) don't exceed the highest figure on your VIN plate of weights + or the quoted max train weight for your car by the manufacturer, you are good to tow. Also what you have to do is use the lighter of the weight for the caravan nose weight Vs car towbar load, as the maximum nose weight for your caravan. Generally 75Kgs is a sensible weight.
Finally there is no real sort of time served guide to being competent to tow to the max. Being aware of what you are doing and being cautious pays dividends.
As long as your outfit is legal, go for it.
Atb Steve L.
I've towed for about twenty years at 100% of the tow capacity of my cars and have had no major problems.
Twin axle vans need to be loaded just as carefully as single axle vans the real benefit in having 4 wheels is that they inherantly want to go straight and offer pivotal resistance, so tend to reduce swaying.
From the legal point of view, as long as the gross train weight (caravan + car + all occupants incl driver + luggage and fuel) don't exceed the highest figure on your VIN plate of weights + or the quoted max train weight for your car by the manufacturer, you are good to tow. Also what you have to do is use the lighter of the weight for the caravan nose weight Vs car towbar load, as the maximum nose weight for your caravan. Generally 75Kgs is a sensible weight.
Finally there is no real sort of time served guide to being competent to tow to the max. Being aware of what you are doing and being cautious pays dividends.
As long as your outfit is legal, go for it.
Atb Steve L.
We bought our last two vans from a reputable dealer and they asked for the vehicle registration etc. They told us, they WOULD NOT sell a caravan to us if in their opinion, the outfit was caravan heavy.
Hi LMH,
Provided the dealer asked the question before the contract was signed then yes they can refuse, but if you have already signed a contract then if they try to refuse, it is breach of contract.
Provided the dealer asked the question before the contract was signed then yes they can refuse, but if you have already signed a contract then if they try to refuse, it is breach of contract.
Quite frankly I don't see that it's anything of the dealer's business to ask question about the towcar. What would happen if you tell him at the time of ordering the caravan that you intend to tow with a Toyota Landcruiser and then turn up to pick up the caravan with a Ford Focus?
Hi Chipie
I have a twin axle bailey wyoming (approx same weight as yours)
I towed this behind a 520d saloon (new shape)
Had no issues whatsoever , i have been towing for a number of years but unit was very stable.
The only thing the car did not like was reversing up an incline - clutch started to smell.
Only got rid of the BMW because it was a company car , we towed over 10 ,000 miles over those 3 years
Regards
Andy
I have a twin axle bailey wyoming (approx same weight as yours)
I towed this behind a 520d saloon (new shape)
Had no issues whatsoever , i have been towing for a number of years but unit was very stable.
The only thing the car did not like was reversing up an incline - clutch started to smell.
Only got rid of the BMW because it was a company car , we towed over 10 ,000 miles over those 3 years
Regards
Andy
Thanks John. After Lutz's reply, I've double checked with my husband.
When we were looking for our first van, I joined this very forum and also did a bit of research.
The first car I had, it was recommended I tow no more than a van 1000kg fully loaded. I went to have a look round the reputable caravan dealers site and they asked me what I intended to tow with, so I told them, and they also said max 1000kg fully laden. They said sorry but they didn't have anything that light in stock. I knew that becaused I'd already looked at the smaller vans.
I bought a suitable van privately. I changed my towing vehicle shortly after buying my first van.
When we bought our second van, the same dealer asked what our towing vehicle was, took the registration details and obviously our names, went off to his office, then came back and confirmed that it was capable of towing the van we had seen at the dealership this time. We then bought the van.
When we went back to p/x the second van, the same salesman dealt with us and asked if I had the same towing vehicle to which I replied yes. He then double checked the numberplate was still the same so they could make a plate up.
I'm not lying, that's our experience in this country.
Lisa
When we were looking for our first van, I joined this very forum and also did a bit of research.
The first car I had, it was recommended I tow no more than a van 1000kg fully loaded. I went to have a look round the reputable caravan dealers site and they asked me what I intended to tow with, so I told them, and they also said max 1000kg fully laden. They said sorry but they didn't have anything that light in stock. I knew that becaused I'd already looked at the smaller vans.
I bought a suitable van privately. I changed my towing vehicle shortly after buying my first van.
When we bought our second van, the same dealer asked what our towing vehicle was, took the registration details and obviously our names, went off to his office, then came back and confirmed that it was capable of towing the van we had seen at the dealership this time. We then bought the van.
When we went back to p/x the second van, the same salesman dealt with us and asked if I had the same towing vehicle to which I replied yes. He then double checked the numberplate was still the same so they could make a plate up.
I'm not lying, that's our experience in this country.
Lisa
From reading your reply, Lisa, I get the impression that the reason for the dealer to ask what you will be towing with had more to do with getting the number plate made up than checking the suitability of the towcar.
Although the dealer has a right to choose to what he sells to whom, asking questions about the towcar are largely pointless because one can change the towcar the day after picking the caravan up from the dealer.
Although the dealer has a right to choose to what he sells to whom, asking questions about the towcar are largely pointless because one can change the towcar the day after picking the caravan up from the dealer.
No Lutz, we bought two vans from the same dealership. We got a number plate made up from somewhere else when we purchased the first van from the dealer.
When we bought the second van from the dealership, I believe the law had changed and one could no longer get a number plate made up from auto shops etc. That's why they asked if we still had the same towing vehicle so they could make a number plate up for that van and also to check that we still had a towing vehicle up to the job of towing the van. I particularly remember the salesman making a comment that the towing vehicle on their records was up to the job.
Lisa
When we bought the second van from the dealership, I believe the law had changed and one could no longer get a number plate made up from auto shops etc. That's why they asked if we still had the same towing vehicle so they could make a number plate up for that van and also to check that we still had a towing vehicle up to the job of towing the van. I particularly remember the salesman making a comment that the towing vehicle on their records was up to the job.
Lisa
Sounds a bit absurd to me what the dealer was doing there because it can only apply if you actually turn up with the car that you said you would when you ordered the caravan.
He did a lot of extra, and to my mind unnecssary, work to check the suitability of a towcar that, theoretically, could be sold or swapped the very next day.
I agree that swapping the towcar is a bit easier over here on the Continent because cars and caravans are treated totally separately and are therefore freely interchangeable without having to tell your insurance, vehicle licensing office, or anyone else, but in principle the same applies in the UK, even though it's not quite as straightforward because you'd have to have a new number plate made up each time you swap.
He did a lot of extra, and to my mind unnecssary, work to check the suitability of a towcar that, theoretically, could be sold or swapped the very next day.
I agree that swapping the towcar is a bit easier over here on the Continent because cars and caravans are treated totally separately and are therefore freely interchangeable without having to tell your insurance, vehicle licensing office, or anyone else, but in principle the same applies in the UK, even though it's not quite as straightforward because you'd have to have a new number plate made up each time you swap.
Well, I remember when we were looking for the first van and we were limited due to the first tow cars kerb weight and poor bhp, we went to about three or four dealerships in total and all asked about the tow car. My nephew also visited the same dealerships and was asked about his towcar too.
Anyway, if it's not illegal to tow at 100%, then it's up to the driver. Even if you've got torque to burn, personally i wouldn't tow at 100% but that's just me.
Lisa
Anyway, if it's not illegal to tow at 100%, then it's up to the driver. Even if you've got torque to burn, personally i wouldn't tow at 100% but that's just me.
Lisa
I wouldn't recommend towing at 100% either, but I'd get very upset if someone tried to prevent me from doing so, so long as I would not be breaking any law.
Hi,
I tried to hire a car transporter trailer. They asked, and I told them my car was a Volvo estate. They refused to hire me their trailer. But on another occasion they let me hire it because I now had a Land Rover. Trailer has MGW of 2000kg.
Car accessory shops can still make and sell number plates .... but they need to have a licence to do so. About
I tried to hire a car transporter trailer. They asked, and I told them my car was a Volvo estate. They refused to hire me their trailer. But on another occasion they let me hire it because I now had a Land Rover. Trailer has MGW of 2000kg.
Car accessory shops can still make and sell number plates .... but they need to have a licence to do so. About
Sorry Lutz, I know than MTPLM is the figure normally used but the example I stated is based on two actual caravans and demonstarated the meaninglessnees of using MTPLM when a 1600kg mtplm van is actually lighter behind the car than one of 1500kg, it is the ACTUAL weight of the caravan that counts not the nubers stamped on the side unless the numbers are 2' high and made of lead.
towing our 1600kg MTPLM caravan with a car of say, 1500kg is no problem at all, just put a self imposed MTPLM of 1500kg on the caravan and reduce the payload by 100kg.
It was certainly MIRO that governed our choice of caravan, NOT MTPLM.
towing our 1600kg MTPLM caravan with a car of say, 1500kg is no problem at all, just put a self imposed MTPLM of 1500kg on the caravan and reduce the payload by 100kg.
It was certainly MIRO that governed our choice of caravan, NOT MTPLM.
But it's still the MTPLM not the actual weight that determines whether you can tow with a Category B licence or whether you need a B+E.
No wonder number plate thieft has rocketed, just think about it.
You have to use a congestion charged zone every day, or have your max quota of points on your license.
What better way to escape charges or fines than to nick a set of plates of a car that is the same make & model as yours. If you go for the same basic color too, you then have the perfect clone.
We had an old lady in Ledbury being prosecuted for failing to pay dozens of London congestion charges for her ageing mini. Eventually she got let off! Because she could prove on several occassions that her car was in Ledbury Herefordshire and not 140 miles away in the centre of London.
So there's the answer to numberplate thieft.
Steve L.
You have to use a congestion charged zone every day, or have your max quota of points on your license.
What better way to escape charges or fines than to nick a set of plates of a car that is the same make & model as yours. If you go for the same basic color too, you then have the perfect clone.
We had an old lady in Ledbury being prosecuted for failing to pay dozens of London congestion charges for her ageing mini. Eventually she got let off! Because she could prove on several occassions that her car was in Ledbury Herefordshire and not 140 miles away in the centre of London.
So there's the answer to numberplate thieft.
Steve L.
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