12s plug grey

Apr 13, 2017
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Hi all more questions lol
The aux grey plug when plugged in to your vehicle do all the caravan interior lights stop working?
Trying to put an gray plug on the 110 so can use the caravan in a few weeks time but not sure I've wired up right
Plug it in nothing works in van apart from fridge red light comes on and amp meter goes right down
Any help be great and diagrams
Thanks in advance
 
Apr 19, 2017
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Yes, it is normal for the main 12v caravan supply to go off when you plug in. (Same as if you switched the 12v master switch off).

However, your fridge 12v supply circuit should not be active until the car ignition is on and (usually) also unless the engine is running and the alternator charging.

Is the ammeter showing the discharge in the 'van or the car?. I think you may have a permanent live feed wired to both your 'van battery and the fridge
 
Apr 13, 2017
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im going away in few weeks all im doing for now is putting a live to battery and fridge straight from a fuse constant live, will get a proper aux plug and wiring later in the year,
the lights have stopped working in caravan when plunged in so half way there on that lol
but the amp meter in the caravan has gone to discharge
 

Damian

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Mar 14, 2005
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What you are doing is not a good idea, neither is it safe.
As you have a few weeks get it wired up correctly by someone who knows what they are doing or not at all.
You should not have a permanent live direct to the fridge, it should be switched with the ignition so that the fridge only operates when the car is running.
 
Apr 13, 2017
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Yes I know that if you read my post it's only to go to site one way keep fridge cool Batt charged it will be unplugged on site not used in way home it's fused live just not got the money at moment to get the proper plus wired in so not dangerous at all as it's all fused and car won't go flat I'll have a generator on site during the day and gas on site
Where's the danger ?
 
Mar 14, 2005
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Markm1967 said:
Yes I know that if you read my post it's only to go to site one way keep fridge cool Batt charged it will be unplugged on site not used in way home it's fused live just not got the money at moment to get the proper plus wired in so not dangerous at all as it's all fused and car won't go flat I'll have a generator on site during the day and gas on site
Where's the danger ?

Hello Mark,

As you have found out caravanning has costs associated with it, and sometimes trying to do thing on the cheap by omitting items or changing accepted norms can have unforeseen consequences. Because their unforeseen I can't predict them.

But please bear in mind that the present day arrangements in cars and caravans have been developed over many years and will have taken into account of real wiring and interaction issues of the previews versions of standards and of course of legal regulations.

That doesn't necessary means what you are doing wont work for you , but if anyone else has to look at it, it wont be clear whats been done, and it will cause confusion and possible dangers. There is a temptation to think of 12V systems as being inherently safe, because the potential is so low it wont cause an electric shock, but that is only half the problem with power circuits, the other consideration is the current capacity of the system , and if it's wired incorrectly the risk of short circuits leading to wires and components over heating and potentially setting fire, which in a caravan is a very serious issue..

Also consider what might happen if you have a breakdown and someone else has to move your caravan, if its not wired correctly, it might damage their vehicle. You wold be held liable.

With things like this it really is best to work to the accepted standards, It may cost now but it will save time and trouble and possibly additional costs later.
 
Jun 20, 2005
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Markm1967 said:
Yes I know that if you read my post it's only to go to site one way keep fridge cool Batt charged it will be unplugged on site not used in way home it's fused live just not got the money at moment to get the proper plus wired in so not dangerous at all as it's all fused and car won't go flat I'll have a generator on site during the day and gas on site
Where's the danger ?
I hope you have checked with the site owners running your Genny is ok?
You don't want any trouble from other site users :woohoo:
 
Apr 13, 2017
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right few things here,
1 id never do anything thats dangerous,
2 dont follow me this is only for me as a stop gap keep my batt/ fridge going
temp measure,
3 im not stupid the genny is for a truck fest end of month its all arranged with ppl on sits as no hook up hence the tow bar plug gray otherwise id plug in the night before travel then go on hook up at site,
right glad thats sorted. :lol:
 
Mar 14, 2005
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if you are only worried about using the fridge and battery at the festival why bother with the wiring on your car,run the fridge at home for a couple of days on mains before you go to get it cold, and when you get to festival use gas, as you have your generator you should be able to charge the battery from that..
 
Mar 13, 2007
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hi. the problem you have discovered is not new. it is donkeys years old. as the standards have changed over the years. the fact of the matter is trying to cobble together old and new systems is a nightmare.

old car/new van. old van/new car the systems are completely different. because the design of the systems were ongoing they are not compatible. with a bit of ingenuity you could get something to work.

the rub is this is probably not the place to ask. sorry because the standard answer to such questions would be if it's not standard, not done by a professional. or is outside the remit of the caravan industry it will be unsafe. invalidate your insurance. or make you liable if something goes wrong.

all of which could be true but it tends to be overstated. if it's not a standard installation up to specification and 100% kosher your on your own.
but I will give you some pointers from what you have written.
1. the electrics in the van will not work while the grey plug is connected if the van is new enough to have it's own battery and fridge because the habitation relay prevents it.
2. the vehicle will show a discharge when you connect the grey plug as the van [in the configuration you describe] will be drawing power from the vehicle battery. [whether the engine is running or not] you need at least a smart relay to stop this discharge when the engine is not running [and charging]. or it will flatten your vehicle battery very quickly if left. you could just pull the plug but the first time you forget. [hello it that the AA !!!].

the fact of the matter really is it your van you decide. but no-one on this site [including myself] will say yeah go ahead it's fine.
 
Oct 8, 2006
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I think the OP has used a wrong term that has confused everyone. How many readers here have ever seen a caravan with an ammeter? I think the OP meant the voltmeter.

It suggests that the 12S connection does not have a permanent 12V supply from the car. If the caravan has a habitation relay then when the caravan is connected to the car with the engine not running then the car supplies the 12V for caravan services. The voltmeter reading zero means either there is no 12V from the car or there is a poor connection - earth (0V) as much as the 12V could be at fault.

I wonder what happens when the car engine is started? Does the voltmeter come to life?
 
Jul 15, 2008
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........there is more than one convention for 12S wiring (Grey Plug/Socket) and the OP needs to establish which one he needs to follow.
This will depend on the caravan that is to be connected to the towing vehicle and usually it's age.
The critical date is September 1st 1998.

From the OP's signature containing his model of caravan, it looks as if he should follow the post September1998 wiring convention.

All the information required is here.........just click
 
Jul 22, 2014
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colin-yorkshire said:
the rub is this is probably not the place to ask. sorry because the standard answer to such questions would be if it's not standard, not done by a professional. or is outside the remit of the caravan industry it will be unsafe. invalidate your insurance. or make you liable if something goes wrong.

But not from me; I regard this as a practical forum (the clue is in the name), technical sub-forum. I sometimes ask for practical help here, and get it :) and sometimes I give help when am able. And fortunately the manufacturing corporations/Big-Brother-government/The-EU/'Elf-and-safety-Nazis/The-NSA/JohnDeer/Microsoft/etc/etc have not quite yet stopped us from working on what we ourselves own, even though things are rapidly heading that way.

For the matter in hand, I stongly recommend these two sources of information :-

https://www.caravanclub.co.uk/media/1022790/towbar-wiring-mo.pdf
https://caravanchronicles.com/guides/understanding-caravan-and-tow-car-electrics/
 
Apr 13, 2017
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ok it might be me but all was asking for was bit of info how the grey plug was to work,
i understand the dangers of fire and all that stuff
hence the fuses and relays,
when i plug in the grey plug it cuts off all electrics in van,
found out that was right,
fridge works now, thats great
so all my problem really is is now why does the volts meter (i called it an amp meter before) go to discharge in the caravan?im nearly there,
someone might just say yeah its supposed to go to discharge until you start the cars engine,
as for charging always good to have another option
the caravan is a 1999,
also took the plug apart on the caravan only to find out it has just one battery charging wire where as some diagrams show two one direct from car batt and one ign controlled,
please dont think im being unkind love the feed back just cant stand ppl who think its there duty to give you the rights n wrongs of life,
profile updated :lol:
 
Jun 20, 2005
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With the master switch on the control panel turned on the voltmeter should read the battery voltage where one is fitted. I assume something is drawing a current hence the discharge shown? How old is the battery?
The meters fitted in caravans are not very accurate so make some allowance.
 
Mar 13, 2007
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Markm1967 said:
the caravan is a 1999,
also took the plug apart on the caravan only to find out it has just one battery charging wire where as some diagrams show two one direct from car batt and one ign controlled,
please dont think im being unkind love the feed back just cant stand ppl who think its there duty to give you the rights n wrongs of life,
profile updated :lol:

hi mate. if the vans a 1999 it will only have 1 live feed. from pin 4. pre 1998 vans also only had one feed from pin 2.
the double feed came in on later vans [about the same time] as the habitation relay went from a manual switch in the van to a automatic one, that switches over when it senses the power going down the fridge wire.
all the wiring diagrams from the earliest vans to the latest ones are all different both with pin configurations and what the wires connect to. unless you are aware of the changes and when they occurred. making any two of the systems compatible isn't easy. as I said it can be done with ingenuity.

my comments were not aimed at causing unrest. it is just a statement of fact. many years ago this forum was the talking shop arm of Practical caravan magazine. both the content of the magazine and notice boards of the forum were full of practical ideas. modifications. and how to do DIY work on caravans.
the likes of Rob Jax. John Wickersham. and Nigel Donnely. and others were a font of knowledge on such matters.
However things have moved on in the caravan world. technology. legislation and the blame someone else culture has all but killed off this aspect of caravanning. it is sad but true.

while the forum is still associated with the magazine the Practical side has all but disappeared it is now somehow deemed that DIY is no longer applicable. safe. or trustworthy except for tinkering around the edges with bits that don't do anything to the operation of the van.
anyone who post asking for practical advice on DIY is more than likely to be answered by get it done professionally assuming that if they need to ask they have no idea what they are doing in the first place.

the caravanning hobby as moved away from doing and using to just plain using.
the evidence is in the forum pages.
 
Nov 16, 2015
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I am with Colin, the PC forum is to help us all, there are the folk on here that "Police" the forum and tell us that as soon as you smell a little bit of gas and tightend the pipe to the set torque you must get a gas fitter to check it out, or fix an electric plug get a qualified greeny to certiciey. We are here to help each other. On the simple tasks. Not to get too technical. Ie nose weights 1 inch up,or down by an inch, on a tow hitch, on a 7 meter caravan . Don not even bite Prof. ,!!,!. Let us help each others and not scare the newbies away. We are here to help.
Hutch.
 
Jul 22, 2014
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colin-yorkshire said:
while the forum is still associated with the magazine the Practical side has all but disappeared it is now somehow deemed that DIY is no longer applicable. safe. or trustworthy except for tinkering around the edges
Some truth in what you say. There are several factors working against DiY these days. Its heyday was the 60s and 70s, partly because there was a post-war surge in owner-occupied housing, and partly because the second-hand car market was flooded with MoT failures traded in for new, which had then been repaired :)whistle:) by dealers and resold cheaply.

Taking the latter as a case of unintended consequences, instead of getting old bangers off the road, many were bought up mainly by working class young men who could never have afforded a car before, and kept them going in a culture of weekend kerbside and back-alley repairs with fibreglass and brake seal replacement kits. People were not afraid to roll their sleeves up then. No-one, no politician or car-maker, would have dared to challenge this popular culture.

Paradoxically, although DiY has now shrunk to a minority of enthusiasts who as a group are far more capable than the average 1960's kerbside worker, the non-enthusiast majority increasingly object to this group existing at all, largely for spurious reasons including a disdain for rolling ones sleeves up. It is an effect of democracy I suppose. Politicians in particular, almost all arts graduates, are easily persuaded to frown on "amateur" technical work. Yet, on the several practical car forums I subscribe to we are somewhat scathing about the skill of the average professional mechanic; I have been a deputy foreman at a Rover dealer and I certainly don't have such a rosy view of the professional mechanic as the general public does.

There are technical reasons too. Prof John here rightly points out that 12 volt systems can cause a fire if a wire is overloaded with a high current. That would have been unlikely to occur on my father's 1960's Hillman Minx as all wires on it as I recall were thick enough to need conscious effort to bend - probably around 3 sq mm copper, even for minor uses like the interior lamp. Modern cars however use the absolute minimum amount of copper needed for each function, so any additional current would overload them. There is no standard general purpose wire so the amateur must select with care.

Sorry Markm for this discussion going off at a tangent. I'm on your side, really :)
 
Mar 13, 2007
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DrZhivago said:
Sorry Markm for this discussion going off at a tangent. I'm on your side, really :)

So am I. been banging my head against the wall of indifference for years on this very subject.
but there is only so many headaches one can suffer before one thinks to hell with this. and stop doing it.

caravanning used to be a cheap hobby to get the wife and kids a holiday when you couldn't or wouldn't pay for two weeks at Butlins or a flat at the seaside.
now it's a very expensive hobby unless you are able to use it all the time all year round. a reason some of us stopped altogether.
 
Jul 15, 2008
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......advice is only useful if it is correct.
Once again advice has been supplied in this thread that is not correct.
Technical advice on a forum is better if it can be backed up from a proven source such as the link I provided in my earlier post to the MH&CC technical help sheet. (also provided by Dr Zhivago)
This helpsheet explains, with the diagrams asked for, all the OP needs to know to carry out his DIY.
 
Jun 20, 2005
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Colin has hit the nail on the head :cheer:
Most of us older gits cut our teeth on mechanical things as kids.Money
was tight and diy was great fun!.
Whilst we don't admit it too publicly most of us DO gas and electric things. Most caravan things are not insurmountable.It is not a black art. As long as some pretty basic rules are followed and after work tests carried out and you are not a complete imbecile then there is nothing you can't fix on your caravan.
Many of us carry various spares that may be the envy of a professional ;) SpareThetford toilet parts, 3 way water valves, electrical connectors, and so on.
Caravanning is a hobby and everyone should have a copy of John Wickersham's workshop manual on board. It was intelligently written for the DIY caravanner :cheer: :cheer:
Puts padding down his trousers :p
 

Parksy

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Nov 12, 2009
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I hope that the OP has now received advice from forum members that will help him to sort out this particular issue.
To briefly address comments regarding offers of D-I-Y advice from forum members, there are no forum rules that I'm aware of that prohibit any forum member from submitting advice on practical matters to forum message boards on a peer to peer basis.
Forum members in receipt of such advice should bear in mind that the Terms and Conditions governing the use of this forum state that:

'You acknowledge that some of the content may be supplied by third parties and the accuracy and completeness of it will not have been checked by Haymarket. No liability shall be accepted by Haymarket for any inaccuracy or omission in the information provided on the Website or the Haymarket Materials.'


Forum moderators have never attempted to prevent any advice that does not knowingly break the law from being submitted to the message boards, but neither can we prevent other forum members from advocating a more cautious approach to D-I-Y work on caravans or towing vehicles.
It's the responsibility of individual forum members to decide whether to follow any advice of any sort that appears on this website, particularly with regard to advice offered in forum posts.
 
Mar 14, 2005
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I need to respond to some of the later points raised in this thread. Rather than take this of topic I have started a new topic

Please see
http://www.practicalcaravan.com/forum/general/54628-giving-forum-advice
 

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