Hi All. Why is it that caravan construction does,nt seemed to have moved on from the simple wood frame and metal clad build of the 40s and 50s, I really don,t know why this is, We now have PC and mobile fone technology and materials that our ancestors would marvel at yet we panic still, at the thought of our frames going soggy n collapsing with water and damp ingress. Why have we not moved forwards to Carbon fibre or plastic nylon frames, or blown polycarbonate polystyrene frames that are stronger and just as light, why are we not building in modern weatherproof materials, we seem to be stuck living in wooden tin boxes that owe there survival to the elasticity and sealability of their mastiks which fail and cause havoc with your timbers. Is,nt this all a bit strange and surreal in the 21st century, I read a remark on this site a while ago which said "the caravan industry is really a cottage industry" ....is this the reason behind it all. In his novel "2001 A Space odyssey" Stanley Kubrik envisaged we would all be floating in giant space cartwheels at this point in time, unfortunately though....we are STILL in timber framed caravans. Personally, I would pay a bit extra for a Rot/ damp proof van that would last forever. Whats your views on it folks ?
2009 A frame Rottery
- Thread starter Barkas
- Start date
Some of us were out of the wooden frame era way back, 2002 in our case.
Suggest you look at Hymer/Eriba and in the Uk the "fifth wheel Co".
Not that they are perfect by any means but certainly far better that those with soft wood structural members and fixing points.
Suggest you look at Hymer/Eriba and in the Uk the "fifth wheel Co".
Not that they are perfect by any means but certainly far better that those with soft wood structural members and fixing points.
Like JTQ has said, ther's always the Hymer Touring series of caravans that do without structural wood. A not insignificant number of those have survived over 40 years. However, they make do with a steel skeleton frame, and none of the high-tech alternatives that Barkas is referring to, which are probably not economically worthwhile, bearing in mind the low volumes involved and the very cost conscious market.
QUOTE; Personally, I would pay a 'bit' extra for a Rot/ damp proof van that would last 'forever'.
More or less answers your own question, bit would need to be a very substantial bit, forever, would very quickly destroy the market for new vans.
Of course somewhat better construction along the same lines as now would not go amiss... and that should not cost more than a bit extra!
More or less answers your own question, bit would need to be a very substantial bit, forever, would very quickly destroy the market for new vans.
Of course somewhat better construction along the same lines as now would not go amiss... and that should not cost more than a bit extra!
With you all the way Barkas!
When we replaced our (dry) 20-year-old Sprite in 2000 I was shocked to see how little had changed in caravan construction. In fact chassis+floors are considerably weaker - the Sprite's manual said it could be jacked up with the steadies to change a wheel.
Bry
When we replaced our (dry) 20-year-old Sprite in 2000 I was shocked to see how little had changed in caravan construction. In fact chassis+floors are considerably weaker - the Sprite's manual said it could be jacked up with the steadies to change a wheel.
Bry
"A Frame rottery"
That's a little out of date, rusty A frames went out when all chassis became galavanised surely.
I've not seen a rusty A frame or chassis for many years, more modern materials are over due though.
That's a little out of date, rusty A frames went out when all chassis became galavanised surely.
I've not seen a rusty A frame or chassis for many years, more modern materials are over due though.
I would pay extra for self adjusting disc brakes, and hubs fitted with out "jobs worth" one shot nuts.
A van fitted with car standard road lights.
I could go on.
What about Coachman still not using stainless screws, last time i asked.
A van fitted with car standard road lights.
I could go on.
What about Coachman still not using stainless screws, last time i asked.
I think you may be underestimating what is involved regarding your request for self adjusting disc brakes. Disc brakes require much higher brake pressure than drum brakes, making it virtually impossible to actuate by mechanical means and without a servo. In order to maintain compatability with current mechanical overrun brakes, the servo unit and any hydraulic system would have to be self-contained in the caravan, without the need for further connections between towcar and caravan. Such a braking system is conceivable but would be technically extremely sophisticated and I doubt whether the cost would be justifiable, taking into account the degree of improvement achieved.
lutz
i'm not saying it would be easy, but crawling under the van to adjust the brakes is a method not seen on cars for a very long time.
Even my first car a 1962 austin a40 farina countryman, had brake adjustment on the outside of hub.
My second car a 1966 mk1 cortina 1200, did have discs brakes, but no servo as i remember.
The van light units have drain holes to allow water to drip out.
Thats just cheap rubbish.
i'm not saying it would be easy, but crawling under the van to adjust the brakes is a method not seen on cars for a very long time.
Even my first car a 1962 austin a40 farina countryman, had brake adjustment on the outside of hub.
My second car a 1966 mk1 cortina 1200, did have discs brakes, but no servo as i remember.
The van light units have drain holes to allow water to drip out.
Thats just cheap rubbish.
Agree with Lutz, I really fail to see any benefits from disc's, drums are IMO ideally suited to trailers using the equally suitable overrun brake application. It's simple and it works, albeit I'd like to see one improvement in the shape of self adjustment if infact feasible.
Agree with Ray though about one shot nuts the question though surely is.. why are they deemed one shot?
Agree with Ray though about one shot nuts the question though surely is.. why are they deemed one shot?
The car industry is just the same, they have a vested interest in ensuring that their products do NOT last as long as they could. About 40 years ago cars would rot away quite readily as would the engines wear out, "That's not accepable" we said so things improved in those areas, basic engines last 200k and bodywork is still good after 10 yrs so the manufacturers load the cars with expensive electronic "toys" that readily fail such that what are basicly sound cars are being scrapped before their time requiring new ones to be bought
Barkas,
You are absolutely right in what you say about caravan design, in fact most of the improvements seen over time are down to the equipment suppliers not the van-makers.
I do disagree with Garfields analysis however after a life time in the motor industry. In the 1970's its true (European) cars would start to show rot after only about 2 years on the road. The one thing that altered the European industry was the arrival in force of the Japanese. They were including levels of equipment that were extras to European vehicles and their quality was obvious. The European and US car makers had to change or go under and today quality is on a par with minor exceptions. Until the same situation pertains in the van industry (very unlikely) there will be little no real incentives to push quality through. There is also an agressive media interest in Automotive's that is not present on the caravan scene. Also the public, myself included, continue to buy the product and until this changes we will see no effort made by the van makers except some cosmetic changes each year.
The only area that the caravan industy match car manufacture is their retail price structure! As an retired buyer I would just love to do a tear down price analysis of any popular caravan and publish the results....
Happy vanning.....
You are absolutely right in what you say about caravan design, in fact most of the improvements seen over time are down to the equipment suppliers not the van-makers.
I do disagree with Garfields analysis however after a life time in the motor industry. In the 1970's its true (European) cars would start to show rot after only about 2 years on the road. The one thing that altered the European industry was the arrival in force of the Japanese. They were including levels of equipment that were extras to European vehicles and their quality was obvious. The European and US car makers had to change or go under and today quality is on a par with minor exceptions. Until the same situation pertains in the van industry (very unlikely) there will be little no real incentives to push quality through. There is also an agressive media interest in Automotive's that is not present on the caravan scene. Also the public, myself included, continue to buy the product and until this changes we will see no effort made by the van makers except some cosmetic changes each year.
The only area that the caravan industy match car manufacture is their retail price structure! As an retired buyer I would just love to do a tear down price analysis of any popular caravan and publish the results....
Happy vanning.....
To Gary the reason why the nuts are called one shot is just that you only use them once due to the way nut is made for the locking on to threads . as opposed to the old method of locking with split pins . The system now is much faster on production lines
Just to add that the nuts are tightened to a torque way above what the DIY mechanic can achieve, so need the special tools.
Kenneth, I fully understand the term, knowing that, my question was meant to prompt people to question why the term should be applied?!
The method used to produce the nut give a measurable 'friction' between nut and shaft threads, if a used nut produces the same friction as new then surely it can be used a second time?
The method used to produce the nut give a measurable 'friction' between nut and shaft threads, if a used nut produces the same friction as new then surely it can be used a second time?
The measurable 'friction' is produced by making the nut slightly oval ,not round, so once used they will not work
Most nut locking systems can be considered 'one shot' to some extent. This is common and recommended practice in most engineering applications. Even the old alternative of using a split pin to secure a castellated nut is, to some extent, one shot, as the split pin, once removed, should be replaced with a new one, even if the nut is re-used. The only solution that I can think of where a nut locking system does not require replacement is that of using counternuts, but this is very operator sensitive and can, if not performed correctly, subject the male thread to excessive loads.
If you read the ALKO service sheet then the nuts SHOULD NOT be removed as the bearings are sealed for life. It also states that the brakes should be adjusted through the inspection hole.
Hi,
Thanks for this useful information. I'm a new one in this forum. I must appreciate the tools provided by you. Please keep updating me in this regard.
CSK
Camping
Thanks for this useful information. I'm a new one in this forum. I must appreciate the tools provided by you. Please keep updating me in this regard.
CSK
Camping
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