Aargh! - Damp

[Surfer]

As the mobile technician found 60% damp at the front nearside of the caravan it had to go into the dealer as still under warranty. After a week I decided to phone them for an update to be told that I can collect the caravan, but I need to bring it back in 6 - 8 weeks time for the damp repair to be done.
On querying this I was told that it takes Lunar awhile to authorise and then about 6 weeks for spares to be sent? In the meantime as the ealer does not have storage area can we collect the caravan. It is a 80 mile round trip each time or 50 miles round trip towing from caravan storage to dealer.
The issues here is what would be regarded as a reasonable amount of time for a repair to be done? IMHO 8 weeks is far too long although it appears to be standard within the industry. We wanted to use the caravan over Xmas but are now unsure about this.
The other issue is at 60% damp surely that there should have been an indication of damp at its first service a year ago unless the damp test in the service was not done correctly.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Come on surfer you know the answer to this one.

Caravans should not leak unless they have been damaged, so assuming yours is not damaged the product is faulty and is coverefd by SOGA.
Pursue it under Soga, as it does not require authorisatoin by the manuafcature, its the dealers responsibility. As for supply times, again that is for the dealer to resolve with no expense to you. they are required under Soga to effect the recovery and remedy with minimum of inconvenience to the customer.

 

[Surfer]

Come on surfer you know the answer to this one.

Caravans should not leak unless they have been damaged, so assuming yours is not damaged the product is faulty and is coverefd by SOGA.
Pursue it under Soga, as it does not require authorisatoin by the manuafcature, its the dealers responsibility. As for supply times, again that is for the dealer to resolve with no expense to you. they are required under Soga to effect the recovery and remedy with minimum of inconvenience to the customer.

Thanks I am aware of the SOGA part, but "reasonable time" is the question. I think 6 - 8 weeks is far too long. We will be contacting the CC legal department on Monday and putting them to test to see if they are worth their salt.
As there is damp in the front nearside floor, does any one know what sort of spares would they be waiting for and how would they do the repair?
This is the first caravan in several years that has been found to have damp. As pointed out to me that with such a high level of damp, it was probably there on the first service a year ago.
My concern is with the standard of servcie doen by the dealer which costs us £250. The mobile technician found a gas leak in the caravan due to a poor fitting. This was picked up when a gas pressure test was done. The same applied to a water leak which we had complained about previously and prior to the first service.

 

[otherclive]

Sorry to hear about your damp problem. I guess the wait for any repair work may come down to availabilty of facilities and staff. Depending on how long the job takes within the workshop the company may have bookings for services or repairs that dont allow sufficient time for yours to be slotted in for the required repair period. Where we live most of the (good) car service garages have a 4 week booking period now even for standard servicing/MoT and we go around with fingers crossed that no unscheduled events occur. having three cars helps overcome such events, but few of us have the "luxury" of multiple vans. Good luck.

 

[Surfer]

We went down to the dealer to collect the caravan and bumped
into the CEO of the dealership who made the normal pleasantries. He
asked why we were considering selling the caravan and I told him that we
had not expected damp in a 2 year old caravan and also to be told that a
damp repair could take up to 6 - 8 weeks.

He was quite taken aback and got hold of the service department to
make inquiries. He then told us that he would personally make sure
that the work was completed by Xmas even if that meant he had to drive
up to Preston to get the spares and that we could leave the caravan
there until then.

It then transpired that the workshop had only checked the front panel
and not the floor in front which was also showing 60%. The workshop
reception then asked me for a copy of my damp report showing the
readings.

This immediately rang alarm bells as surely that should not be
required if they had tested for damp in the named area? Anyway the CEO
is not very happy and told us he would investigate it on Monday when all
the service staff are back at work.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello Surfer,

I pleased you seem to have got some favourable action, but why does it have to so diffcult to get it!!!

I had composed what follows before I saw your last posting, but decided to continue to post it as it may be relevant to others::-

Its not necessarily the case that a high percentage reading at year two would have had a raised reading at year one. What is important is the fact that a high reading was detected by an independant engineer (I hope he reported in writing) and again by the dealer.

The dealer has had the caravan and has assessed the damage, and estimated what parts will be needed. That being the case, it shows the dealer has accepted there is a fault. So why does it need the manufacturer to authorise repairs before parts can be ordered? Why has the dealer assumed you want a manufacturers warranty repair rather than a SoGA remedy? Well actually its because under SoGA it is likely to cost the dealer whilst under the manufacturer's warranty it won't cost him less or nothing at all.

As the customer, under SoGA you have to make a decision, as the caravan is faulty, do you want a refund, or a repair. If you choose a repair then the dealer should be ordering the parts immediately.

Under SoGA you are entitled to a FOC repair, so its of no fiscal interest to you how the repairs are funded. It is up to the dealer to negotiate with the manufacturer to recover his costs. Those negotiations should not delay the repairs, if they do, then that is unreasonable.

If the caravan is of a current standard design, the parts should be available within 5 working days, but if its of an older design, then some parts may take longer, as they may need to be manufactured to order.

When the parts are available, it will take time for the repairs to be carried out, so it is reasonable the service department will need to schedule the work. It will have to worked in with the other work they have planned. But a well run service department should be able find space within about 4 weeks or less.

As the dealership has admitted the caravan is faulty, under SoGA they must inconvenience you as little as possible, and are responsible for all costs associated with remedying the problem. You have every right to refuse to collect the caravan, they are obliged to secure the caravan until the repairs are completed. With your permission they could deliver the caravan back to you, and then collect it again when the parts are available.

 

[Surfer]

Thansk John. My thoughts have been very similar to yours. The one concern I have is why the service receptionist asked me for a copy of my damp report and why they had not even looked at the floor?
That is a major concern considering I clearly stated that there was a damp issue with the front and floor nearside? I am still puzzled about this however it did not occur to me at the time when they asked me.
Obviously I am not very sharp on a cold morning! I am now thinking that eventually when we get the caravan back, I will pay for another independent damp test as less than a year now remaining on the warranty. If it shows high reading again, then I will claim for the cost, however if not, at least I will have peace of mind.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Before you agree to a repair, I suggest you remind the dealer of your rights under SoGA and suggest that if they don't provide an additional full years warranty on the whole caravan as compensation for the inconvenience, you will consider your other option of taking a full refund. Get the agreemnet in writing!
Don't forget you automatically get a full SoGA cover for the repairs, but it only covers the repaired elements, and not the surrounding materials.

 

[Surfer]

We phoned Monday afternnon for an update, Tuesday midday and got nowhere. Eventually I told them that if we did not get an update by 12pm on Wednesday we would be officially rejecting the caravan as 60% damp implies structural damage.
We got a phone call this morning from the workshop manager who obviously has a low opinion of a person's intelligence and tried to feed us the biggest load of bullsh*t you have ever heard with every excuse. Although we had advised them of damp in the front nearside panel and also the front nearside floor, they had not even checked the floor.
We were also told that the damp was only 43% and not 60%. We were also told that we were lucky they were looking at it now as we had used another service centre to do the service plus that the dealer's workshop was very busy at the moment. Considering we have purchased 3 brand new caravans from that dealership in the past 10 years plus 2 second hand vans, we are not really amused.
Why would a mobile technician lie to us as they would not be able to do the warranty reapir for damp anyway? Whose damp meter is giving incorrect readings? We are seriously considering sending a "Subject Access Request" even though it would cost us £10. This should then show us the damp and check reports on the first service plus all other related repairs. We were never given a damp report for the previous service or the results of the gas and water pressure test.

 

[otherclive]

Pretty awful customer service from your supplying dealer. I am really surprised though that you had no damp or gas check/test sheets or service schedule check off sheet. For one thing the damp check sheet would be the first thing I ask for, but in reality I've always been given it without having to ask. Nothing other than damp really concerns me as with a van everything else is readily fixable and doesn't lead to such deterioration or expensive and time consuming repairs. Pity the industry cannot understand this concern!

 

[Martin_E]

Surfer,

the industry standard for damp testing is use of a Protimeter, these should be self calibrated every service.
You may find that the dealer has not found the same spot as your service engineer did and found lower readings.

 

[Surfer]

Surfer,

the industry standard for damp testing is use of a Protimeter, these should be self calibrated every service.
You may find that the dealer has not found the same spot as your service engineer did and found lower readings.

The mobile technician gave us a damp report showing where he had checked and it seems that when he got the higher reading he then did further checks in the affected area. Further back the readings drop down to 40%. Also despite informing the delaership that there was damp in the front nearside panel and floor, they never bothered to check the floor. They only checked the floor after I had kicked up a stink! We have zero faith in the dealship being truthful or even doing a proper repair. My wife is furious about the damp as she had inherited some money and used this to fund the purchase of the caravan.

 

[otherclive]

I can understand your wife's deep disappointment with the damp. If only the industry would see how damp problems affect their customers and whilst it may not be possible to esnure 100% integrity why the makers and Dealers dont seek to handle the problem better than they do would relieve peoples' angst. I felt the same when my dealer found damp due to a front cracked panel in year 2. But I must say Chipping Sodbury and Bailey came up trumps and took all of the problems away from me, even though it meant a new front panel. I think one of the reasons why we have not bought a new van since 2005 is that ours had the new front and rear panels and seals replaced and thus far it has been damp-free. Also at 250kg payload in 1400kg MTPLM it suits us down to the ground. Better the devil you know, and the cash saved has already been used!

 

[Surfer]

As we were getting no response from the dealer, we committed ourselves to write a letter to the director at the dealership and also another letter to the finance company. In it we stated exactly the problems found, lack of feedback and our concern that the repair was taking 6 - 8 weeks and that period being regarded as normal. We stated our intention of rejecting the caravan due to it not being fit for purpose etc under SOGA.
The finance company contacted us on Friday to advise that they would get in contact with the dealer to put matters right. On Saturday a very brief letter arrived from the dealership, but not from the director the letter was from the workshop foreman. Basically it was 5 lines stating that they have read our letter and forwarded it onto Lunar caravans for the attention of the after sales manager and that they have entered a warranty claim for the works required and are now waiting parts from Lunar. They have also put our caravan under cover to prevent any further water intake.
This begs the question as to why the parts were not ordered on the 22nd when the problem was diagnosed and why a damp check was not done until two weeks later and why wait nearly a month before putting it udner cover if the problem is that bad. We have lost all faith in this dealership carrying out an effective repair.
We have used the same dealership for the past 9 years and have never really had issues in the past 6 years although we had some prior to that, but then the service improved drastically. If no movement by end of this week, we will officially reject the caravan as not fit for purpose as we also have an issue with the way the ALDE heating system has been installed making if very ineffective.

 

[Dustydog]

Hi Surfer

There are a few of us on here who have pushed these type of issues to the ends of the earth. You know in your situation you will win but sadly it does take some time.
A pretty poor show on. The dealers part. What happened to the CEO involvement?

Happy Christmas and a successful outcome of this debacle for 2014'

 

[Surfer]

Hi Surfer

There are a few of us on here who have pushed these type of issues to the ends of the earth. You know in your situation you will win but sadly it does take some time.
A pretty poor show on. The dealers part. What happened to the CEO involvement?

Happy Christmas and a successful outcome of this debacle for 2014'

It appears the CEO has disappeared? Although the letter was addressed to him, he got the workshop manager to respond back by letter whcih stated we are investigating it and that was about it. Later we got a phone call from the receptionist asking us whether we had any plans for the Xmas period. We told him that we had cancelled and inturn were told that they would be commencing work on the caravan. The finance company has obviously being putting a lot of pressure on the dealer.
It seems that reading between the lines that although they found damp in the caravan on the 22nd November, the delaership had not even bothered to order any spares. They were going to leave ordering until they could find a free date when the repairs could be done and this date would have been in January sometime if we were lucky. I think this is some form of "revenge" for not having the caravan serviced by them however they have now become unstuck!

 

[ProfJohnL]

....... the letter was from the workshop foreman. Basically it was 5 lines stating that they have read our letter and forwarded it onto Lunar caravans for the attention of the after sales manager and that they have entered a warranty claim for the works required and are now waiting parts from Lunar. ......

Hello Surfer,

The sad saga seems to continue... here are a few rhetorical questions:-

Does the dealer understand their statutory dusty under SoGA - It seems not!

A repair under SoGA does not require warranty parts, or a warranty claim to be lodged with the manufacture before repairs can start.

As you know a SoGA claim rests with the parties to the contract of sale, and the opinion or influence of a manufacture on the warrantable status of the claim is totally irrelevant.

If and how the dealer recovers the cost of the repairs should not concern you, nor should it delay the necessary works. That aspect is a matter for the dealer to resolve, and must not influence the works.

You have informed the dealership of your likely intention to reject the caravan, that implies you are invoking SoGA. As SoGA has nothing what-so-ever to do with the manufactures warranty, I wonder why the dealer has "entered a warranty claim" You have not asked them to do that, so why are they now stating its in for Lunar's approval?

What happens if Lunar decline it?

Perhaps you should send them a letter asking them to review their legal responsibilities and include a link to the relevant Act of Parliament.

 

[Raywood]

The professor has given good advice on SOGA. You must write indicating your position and address it to the COE personally. Make it quite clear that if the matter is not rersolved speedily and to your satisfaction you will be taking them to the small claims court. I would also ask for compensation for the loss of use.

 

[ProfJohnL]

... I would also ask for compensation for the loss of use.

As I have stated elsewhere, SoGA looks to be fair, and not provide an advantage to either party. The plaintiff cannot make a pecuniary gain.

Whilst it would be nice to have compensation for loss of availability, in practice SoGA does not automatically provide for this. It only looks at real evidenced losses occurring as a direct result of the fault. So things like the cost of towing the caravan back to the dealers is recoverable, but if a case goes to court, they may also consider what the seller has done to support the customer things like courtesy cars etc.

SoGA is only designed to set the customer back to the position they would have been in if the fault had not arisen.

This is what has happened on another thread, where a SoGA full refund has been requested on a used caravan. the finance house has suggested the caravanner pays 'rental' for the use of a caravan they have already had.

The issue of compensation can only be resolved through SoGA if there is evidence of a financial loss caused as a direct result of the fault. If the fault causes a curtailed holiday then cancellation/recovery fees are legitimate but proving a loss arising out of not booking a holiday is difficult (i'm not saying impossible).

In most repair cases where compensation is made, the compensation is a gesture of goodwill from the companies involved, rather than a legally forced payment.

 

[Surfer]

Thanks for the advice John. Although I am aware of how to use SOGA to my bets advantage, I must admit I never thought of the fact that under SOGA there should be no need to wait for authorisation from the manufacturer. I do know that the finance house are putting a lot of pressure on the dealer however at the moment the dealership is closed until after the New Year so everything has come to a standstill.

 

[Surfer]

Another update. Today in the post came a letter stating that the
caravan was ready for collection subject to approval by the finance
company having it inspected by an independent. Sadly although the
repair was done, they never checked the rest of the job sheet and have
not resolved another issue which requires authorisation from Lunar.
Apparently the leak was caused by the front rail across the top of the front windows not being sealed properly. I would have thought that a leak in that area would have been obvious to the naked eye and for it to affect the floor so badly, would have had to be virtually a gaping hole?

 

[jordanbum]

Hi We purchased a "NEW" Bailey Retreat Willow 20th September which we have used for weekends etc. We have had the usual Teething Concerns!!! door jammed shut,wrong kitchen tap fitted,Rear locker door insecure (the barrel falls out),fridge door laminate fell off. No pdi sheet,Kitchen sink badly scratched due to being transported with bag of Whale fittings in it,Led strip insecure,tiolet roll holder fell off,kitchen work surface scratched,ariel wiring jumbled up. The innerside of the roof had grey dust on it. Then Christmas Day I awoke to find my slippers full of water and was confronted with water running down the inner wall of the "NEW" van. Of course no one available Christmas Day ,we e-mailed and sent photo's to Dealer and Manufacturer . Eventually we got an independant engineer (at our cost ) and as well as the water ingress he showed me where in his opinion the "NEW" van had been repaired around two of the roof vents.Obviously proir to our purchase. When the person from the dealership came along, before he came inside he asked "is it leaking in where the seam is in the bedroom?" After a quick look he said the van would have to go back to the manufacturer as it was to big of a job for them to undertake. We agreed to this and yesterday it was uplifted and taken to THE DEALERSHIP We have had to go backwards and forwards to empty our dehumidifiers (round trip of 160 miles) and empty out the bowl we had catching the water. Yesterday we photographed the bedroom roof as it was bellying down with the weight of the water. We have sent a 14 day letter to the dealership to which the have yet to reply rejecting the van SOGA six year body integrity warranty only lasts three months before failure..............................We have owned many many caravan's over the last 50 years we have never had one from this manufacturer,never had as many concerns and to get a "NEW" van with an inner wall wash is very dissapointing indeed.We are totally gutted . Iam disabled 67 years old ,my wife is older ....This was to be our most expensive van ever and it was to be our bolt hole as the years roll by,, now all gone...we are so so dissapointed

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello Phil,

This is a distressing post.

Now obviously we only have one side of the story, but it seems very likely something has gone dreadfully wrong with the caravan. There should be no problem with engaging SoGA to find a remedy.

Are you making the point that even before the dealers representative entered the caravan, he suspected a particular seam in the bedroom? if so that strongly suggests he was aware of a previous problem with this van, again suggesting the dealer has had to make a repair before you purchased it. That might contravene SoGA as the van had a known fault at the point of sale, or it is a common failing of this model of caravan.

I assume your reference to having make 150 mile round trips to empty the water collection trays refers to the time prior to the dealer uplifting the caravan. However, If those trips were only to empty the water trays, then that is a loss you have suffered as a direct result of the products fault, and you should detail those trips and mileage and claim that as part of the SoGA action.

I assume the cost of the caravan exceeds the small claims courts limit, so I strongly suggest you get a solicitor involved who can steer you though the details of the claim.

 

[Surfer]

Did you pay for any part of the caravan with a credit card i.e. the deposit? Is the caravan on finance as you can get the finance company to fight your corner? It is terrible what the manufactuers throw at the consumer and then hide behind SOGA.
I think Parksy should start a new thread for you to avoid confusion.

 

[Parksy]

.........I think Parksy should start a new thread for you to avoid confusion.

Unfortunately no mechanism exist which would enable me to move a post which has been added to a thread to somewhere else.
I can do this with original posts but unfortunately not with posts added after the original.
The only thing that I can suggest is for Phil in Rhyl a.k.a Jordanbum to copy his post and begin a separate topic with a different title and I'll copy and paste the replies so far underneath because to have two similar but unconnected tales of woe in one thread may lead to confusion.