Abbey paint bubbles

[rob and jen]

Hi,

After cleaning my 2005 Abbey Spectrum 620 (GRP side walls) yesterday I noticed some small bubbles on the side pannel. There seems to be a numebr of pin head type bubbles at the base of the side windows (front and rear windows on the side of the van).

One bubble actually came off leaving what now looks like a small paint chip.

I have enquired with my local deal who basically said they had not heard of this and my van is out of warranty so there was nothing they could do.

Has anyone seen or heard of this before and if so how did you get it resolved - I fear all of these bubbles will burst and the side of my van will look a mess.

 

[Damian]

Rob, there could be a couple of reasons.

Firstly what have you used to wash your van with?

However given that you use the normal accepted cleaners, the problem would show up elsewhere.

As the damage is limited to the base of windows, this would lead to osmosis, which is a perennial problem for GRP boats as well, where water gets under the gel coat.

Reasons ,maybe a bad GRP moulding or the raw edge of the window cut out not sealed and an already present bad bond of GRP in manufacture (air gaps)..

Only very close inspection would reveal the answer.

 

[rob and jen]

Thanks Damian.

Used (as always) fenwick caravan cleaner with sponge.

The bubbles are about 12inches down from the base of the window and leaks within window seal don't look apparent.

I think I have inspected best I can but not sure what to do next.

 

[Damian]

Rob, with the extra info you have given, on the inside of the van, at the same level as the bubbles, are there any fixed furniture items? shelves etc?

 

[rob and jen]

Damian,

Behind (inside van) the bubbles at the front is the back of the couch cushion. This cushion moves and is used to make the front bed.

The bubbles at the rear are in the same place, directly infront of the rear couch cushion of which also moves.

Your theory of Osmosis is interesting and widely covered on line - although very worrying aand not something I was aware of!

 

[Damian]

Rob, do the cushions rest against condensation boards?, or more correctly anti-condensation boards?

I am leaning towards too long screws being used in those locations somewhere.

Osmosis is a big problem, or can be, and like yourself not many people really know about it , it causes and treatment, and with so many GRP panellled vans about it is not even mentioned by manufacturers , dealers or anyone else.

Living and working in a very "boat" environment it is something I have seen a lot of.

 

[rob and jen]

Rob, do the cushions rest against condensation boards?, or more correctly anti-condensation boards?

I am leaning towards too long screws being used in those locations somewhere.

Osmosis is a big problem, or can be, and like yourself not many people really know about it , it causes and treatment, and with so many GRP panellled vans about it is not even mentioned by manufacturers , dealers or anyone else.

Living and working in a very "boat" environment it is something I have seen a lot of.

Damian,

The cushions do sit against the anti condensation boards and there are screws roughly where the bubbles are - but not exactly.

On the boat front yes, it looks like a big issue. I wonder if thats why Swiftleisure stopped using GRP.....

 

[rob and jen]

Damian,

Sorry clicked comment and nit reply...

The cushions do sit against the anti condensation boards and there are screws roughly where the bubbles are - but not exactly.

On the boat front yes, it looks like a big issue. I wonder if thats why Swiftleisure stopped using GRP.....

 

[trucker]

Rob sorry to hear of your problems with your van. Although your van is out of waranty, you might still have some redress through the sale of goods act (google sale of goods quick facts.) You will have to prove that the problem was there at point of sale or the way the van was constructed was not satisfactory. If you can prove that the problem is Osmosis you may have a case against your dealer. Id do some more research and find out what the problem is and then decide what you want to do about it.

Kevin

 

[rob and jen]

Hi,

Thanks to all for your comments. I bouught the van privately 3 years ago, so have no redress with a dealer.

I have however, written to Swift leisure and await their response in the first instance.

 

[rob and jen]

Hi,

An update for all for info.

I visited the Caravan and Motor home show in Manchester last weekend and after discussing with a number of dealers there (inlcuding Swift leisure) I have been led to believe the problem is Delamination. Apparetly this is a common problem where the bonded materials as part of the GRP starts to come away causing bubbles and is a recognised manufacture issue - caused by the glue.

I wrote to swift with my initial issue and then sent them a second note when I had this info as I thought it may help them to draw conclusion but got a very disappointing response back to my original note.

They very clinically answered 3 question I posed and basically told me to find a local body shop and get the van sprayed. I was horified with the response and amazed that even though the 3 year warranty had expired, for a van that was almost

 

[Dustydog]

Hi Rob

In the County Court the Judge will tell you and Swift he / she isn't interested in 3 year guarantees etc. More so how long should the caravan last before showing the serious failure you describe.

The Judge will ask Swift if.at the point of sale, they hang notices in their caravans and in their manuals that their paint will only last four years before it bubbles.

Pathetic but true! Subject to there being no other intervening factor that caused the bubbling I suspect Swift will have great difficulty persuading the Judge that their product is not defective.

I am sure if you contact Kath Powell at Swift and explain the problem, never mind the letter you've already sent to Swift, she will try hard to achieve a satisfactory resolution for you. If that doesn't work, don't worry. There are are things we can do.

Cheers

Alan

 

[rob and jen]

Alan,

Thanks for the tip with Kath Powell. After not receiving any response from Swift I resent the note to them on Tuesday asking for the issue to be addressed to Kath. I received an initial response to say that Kath is away from the business but my note will be escalated.

I have just received a response back today and it's not good news. See Following:-

"2005 Abbey Spectrum 620 s/n: 0310780

Thank you for your email.

Whilst I appreciate the comments made regarding the body delamination. We do feel that if this issue was as a result of manufacture this would have become apparent during the first three years of ownership.

As your warranty expired on 14/12/2007 we are unable to contribute financially towards the repairs but we are confident that these can be addressed by your dealer.

I am sorry if you feel during your conversations at the show you were misled in any way I am sure that this was not the intention of anyone involved.

I apologise for any disappointment caused but please be assured I escalated your case and this is the final decision the Swift Group

Yours sincerely

Hayley Jones

Customer Services Advisor"

So it looks like they aren't willing to do a thing to help. I must say that I am amazed by their response and now face, either a cost to repair myself (I can imagine this to be expensive) or a long slog through I guess the small claims court.

Any further advice would be gratefuly received as I've never been faced with this type of situation before.

 

[Dustydog]

Hi Rob

So it seems you took delivery of your 2005 model on the 14th December 2004?

Just for the moment remember your contract for purchase was with the dealer not Swift.

Have you any independent evidence to say the paintwork has failed and why? Causation is very important at this stage. In essence you need to say it is the paint itself that has failed , there being no other intervening factors that have caused the problem.

If you are willing to spend some money with experts, eg forensic scientists , then if they say it is the paint , or quality of the original workmanship then we are on a roll.

See my earlier post. Swift will have to admit in Court their paintwork does not last more than 4 years. Thus the corrollary is that every Swift Dealer will have to place notices saying the paintwork will not last more than 4 years !!

The key factor in moving your case further forward is establishing the true causation of the problem.

If you wish I am happy for Mr Mods to pass you may details if you wish to speak privately.

Cheers

Dustydog