Achieving an 85% balanced outfit

Jul 23, 2008
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Hi all,

excuse my ignorance but I am new to caravaning and my research has left me with as many questions as I have found answers.

My main question concerns achieving a balanced outfit (85%). I am due to order a new company car which is limited to one model (BMW 3 Series) and We are looking at buying our first caravan. Having looked at layouts, we favour something along the lines of the Lunar Quasar FB and Avondale Dart 630/6. Using the 85% rule this will be a problem.

Am I right in assuming that as long as my van is only 85% of the weight of my car and that I don't exceed the manufacturers weight limits or train weight, that I will not have a problem. i.e not using the MTPLM, but the actual weight of the caravan and load?

furthermore, is it exceptable (keeping within the manufacturers weight limits) to load the majority of equipment in the car to increase the car weight in relation to the van. Thus achieving an 85% actual weight ratio.

This would certainly make the avondale a possibility.

I apologise in advance if this is a really stupid question.

many thanks
 
Mar 14, 2005
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lutzschelisch.wix.com
Firstly, the 85% figure is a recommendation, not a rule and although it is a factor which contributes to stability, it is not the only one. It is therefore quite conceivable that, under otherwise adverse conditions, an outfit is unstable even though it is below 85%. Conversely, many people tow all the time at over 85% without a problem. It should therefore be seen as a reasonable starting point for a novice.

Secondly, the weight ratio is always calculated by using the MTPLM of the caravan and the kerbweight of the towcar. It therefore represents the worst case, not the actual condition. Except in the extremme condition of an empty car towing a fully laden caravan, the actual weight ratio will always be more favourable. However, there is little point in calculating the actual weight ratio because it cannot be compared with any other data and would therefore be rather meaningless.

Summarising, 85% does not guarantee you a balanced outfit. Instability doesn't suddenly occur once you go over 85%. It is a relatively big grey area as you go from white to black and other factors play just as important a role.
 
Aug 28, 2005
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i normally tow out T/A with our 4 wheel drive , but i have sometimes used our Mondeo Estate TDCI , towing at 100% and i cant tell the differrence ,
 
Mar 13, 2007
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hi neil

two questions for you, first: if you are limited to only one car choice and wish to tow with it, go for the heavy model with best power output, second: why as a newbie and novice tower set out with such a large van to begin with learn to tow with a smaller unit first.

having said that, the 85% rule isn't a rule it is actually nonsense and has no foundation in law, it was formulated by the caravan fraternaty and adopted as a way of trying to assess the best towing weights applicable for a safe tow without any regard for unknown factors, ie: to disuade anyone from towing say a 22ft boat with a fiesta at a time long ago before there were actually any towing laws in force, it is out of date and useless and the sooner people stop quoteing it to newbies as some form of holy grail the better.

the only lawful way to tow is by adhearing to 3 mesurements

1. the cars maximum gross vehicle weight(the total weight the car can pull car + passengers + luggage + trailer) and is the biggest figure on the vehicle vin plate.

2.the cars kerb weight (self explanatory)

3. the trailer (van in our case) mtplm.

providing figure 2+3 is less than 1 it is legal to tow it and it does not matter what the percentage is some car manufacturers figures are at or over 100% it may not be practical in some cases but it is legal.

colin
 
Mar 14, 2005
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lutzschelisch.wix.com
You have stated some misleading information there, Colin. The car's kerbweight has no bearing in law except for driving licence requirements if you passed your test after 1st January 1997. The important figures are:

1) The car's gross vehicle weight. This is the total weight of the fully laden car including all passengers, payload AND noseweight of the caravan.

2) The actual axle load (not the total weight which includes the noseweight) of the caravan. The noseweight is already included in 1. above.

3) The maximum permitted gross train weight, as specified by the car manufacturer.

4) The maximum permitted towload, as specified by the car manufacturer.

The sum of 1) and 2) must not exceed 3) AND item 2) must not exceed item 4). Also, item 1) and the total weight of the caravan must not exceed the respective limits, also as specified by the manufacturers.

Whilst you are correct in saying that the total weight of the caravan may exceed the kerbweight of the car and still be legal if permitted by the car manufacturer (and subject to driving licence requirements), it would require extreme care and probably exceed the safe capability of the average driver, certainly at 60mph. Although advisability of staying below a 85% weight ratio is debatable because there are so many other factors which also affect stability, going over 100% (where permitted) should only be attempted with low loader or similar trailers, not with big slab-sided caravans.
 
Mar 13, 2007
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hi lutz

sorry it took so long to reply as you probably know I have had problems in posting.

any way you are correct of course but my answer was only there to serve as a reminder that it is the car manufacturer that sets out the maximum trailer weight and the ratio of car to trailer percentage not some mythical 85% formula that can be misleading for a newbie to get to grips with.

misleading because if a 85% figure said the max trailer weight for a car was 1150kg and you wanted to tow one of 1225kg you may think this was illegal when in fact the manufacturers given figure was 1350 kg a whole 125kg under and a whopping 200kg over the 85% rule even if this meant towing at a 97% ratio.

the other side of the coin is that some manufacurers reduce or even ban trailers from certain models as they have no tow bar fixing points and therefore it is impossible to get a type approved bar.ie, ford ka

also for instance rover 25/45 models have a max trailer weight of 1000kg immaterial of the cars max gross train weight, a 85% ratio on say a rover 45 2.0td would be 1175kg thats 175kg over weight and illegal, a 1000kg limit is in this circumstances is only about 80%.

I hope this explaines my answer and put it in context.

colin
 
Mar 14, 2005
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lutzschelisch.wix.com
I think what you are trying to point out is that, first and foremost, you MUST stay within the manufacturers' specified limits, regardless of any 85% weight ratio recommendation. This is especially true if the these limits result in a max. towload which is less than 85%.
 
Jul 23, 2008
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Many thanks for all your replys.

The goalposts have now moved somewhat, but thanks to your explanations I am clear about the decisions I need to make. I am aware that the 85% rule is not a legal restriction, but being a newbie I am keen to make sure that whatever I choose is safe. The info about what is required legally is obviously very useful.

As for those goalposts, changes are afoot with my company's car policy. It now seems I will have a choice of vehicle after all, which is likely to include the Mondeo and new vauxhall Insignia.

As for why such a big van? My family consists of a 19 year old boy/man (he is already considerably bigger than me), a 6 year old girl, my wife and me. The six year old is likely to bring friends regularly, and parents will probably tag along on occaision. We are also considering a 4 berth with an end washroom and using an awning for extra berths.

I should have made it clear, I do not intend to buy Immediately. I plan on taking a towing course & to hire for a trial period first.

As for which vans we are now looking at:

4 Berth - Sterling Eccles Moonstone

6 Berth - Fleetwood Sonata Symphony

6 Berth - Lunar Quasar FB

again, many thanks for making everthing much easier to understand. Any other advice regarding towing, vans etc that you feel may be useful to a newbie will be greatly appreciated.
 

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