After sales service

[robert_374370733]

Having bought a brand new Sprite caravan at the end of January 2008,we have encountered numerous problems not only with the vans reliability but also a second rate customer service from both our local dealer and the Swift group who manufactured the van. Problems encountered include;

1. Electrical fault - fridge will not work unless television plugged in. Currently waiting five weeks and still no sign of progress in terms of rectifying this problem. However dealer THINKS the caravan is NOT dangerous to use. (this opinion is made from a laymans perspective as opposed to that of a qualified electrician).

2.Electrical circuit panel eventually replaced after several visits to dealer complaining that leisure battery not working.

3.Sealant around bathroom has been repaired twice to date.

4.Full price paid for the caravan plus additional £495 paid for stabilizing hitch, spare wheel and carrier, and fly screen for the door. Literally weeks after purchase the Swift group discounted these extra's before deciding to provide them for no charge. Further dismay came from awareness that the Swift group are now offering substantial discounts of up to £2,000 on the same caravan. When challenged, a Swift group representative advised that we were 'just unlucky'.

The moral of this message is for any would be caravan buyers beware and choose your caravan manufacturer and dealer with care.

Regards Bob.

 

[Allyson]

Hi Robert

Sorry to hear about your problems.

I am sure that Kath from Swift will reply to you soon, lets hope that sort it soon.

You name the supplier are you going to tell us the dealer you are not please with too?

 

[robert_374370733]

Hi Robert

Sorry to hear about your problems.

I am sure that Kath from Swift will reply to you soon, lets hope that sort it soon.

You name the supplier are you going to tell us the dealer you are not please with too?

Hi Allyson, dealer is Abbey caravans in Newtownabbey, Northern Ireland.

 

[Allyson]

Hi Allyson, dealer is Abbey caravans in Newtownabbey, Northern Ireland.

Hi Robert

We meet up with some people from Southtern Ireland in France they had bought their van from up the North.

I cannot remember what van it was,but it was 2nd hand and came from England, they said people go to Ireland to sell their vans.

Apparently that get a better deal?

When they come back from holidays i will have to ask them which dealer it was, as i understand their are not to many dealers over in Ireland.

Allyson

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello Bob,

If your description is fair and accurate, I agree the tardiness of the dealer is indeed very poor. There is no reasonable excuse for such behaviour.

With regard to the value of the caravan, and current discounting practices, you may have missed out on a better deal but I don't see an issue for the dealer or Swift to answer in that regard.

How many times have we searched for a particular product, and found it, bought it then later found the same product on sale elsewhere for less, or the store has a sale. - It happens to all of us.

As a purchaser you will have struck a deal with the caravan dealer at a price that you are prepared to pay, and presumably you were happy to proceed other wise you would not have purchased it.

If later the manufacture or dealer then has a promotional sale, or perhaps it is at the end of the model line, it is just one of those things in life. I don't think they agreed to reduce the price because you had purchased a caravan to spite you.

That's Life.

 

[robert_374370733]

Hello Bob,

If your description is fair and accurate, I agree the tardiness of the dealer is indeed very poor. There is no reasonable excuse for such behaviour.

With regard to the value of the caravan, and current discounting practices, you may have missed out on a better deal but I don't see an issue for the dealer or Swift to answer in that regard.

How many times have we searched for a particular product, and found it, bought it then later found the same product on sale elsewhere for less, or the store has a sale. - It happens to all of us.

As a purchaser you will have struck a deal with the caravan dealer at a price that you are prepared to pay, and presumably you were happy to proceed other wise you would not have purchased it.

If later the manufacture or dealer then has a promotional sale, or perhaps it is at the end of the model line, it is just one of those things in life. I don't think they agreed to reduce the price because you had purchased a caravan to spite you.

That's Life.

Thanks for your comments John in regards to the manufacturer's right to discount their products as they feel fit. At no point did I feel the Swift group did this specifically to spite me. I feel you have missed the point I was trying to convey which was to expose the vast differences in cost to the consumer depending upon time of year when purchasing. By anyone's calculation, 2k off the original asking price for a budget entry caravan is significant. Being advised to 'take it on the chin ' and 'not take it personally' by fellow consumers such as your self somehow justifies these dealer/manufacturer practices as acceptable.

 

[SwiftGroup_374327846]

Robert

I am sorry that you have had problems with your caravan and these remain unresolved.

Do you want to send me an email with your details so that I can look into the case?

kpowell@swiftleisure.co.uk

Regards

Kath

 

[Dustydog]

Hi Robert

You will have seen from the numerous posts on this forum that many a disgruntled purchaser has successfully managed to obtain a full cash refund from the dealer.

Some are already in the throes of demanding their money back.

What do you want to do? There are plenty of us on here who can offer impartial advice, eg Jo-anne has done it.

Cheers

Alan

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello again Bob,

No, I did not miss your point, and I agree it is frustrating to find out that you have missed an even better deal. I also see how you feel it might devalue the product you have purchased, but regardless of how sore you feel about the timing of events, the manufactures actions are perfectly proper and legal.

As I pointed out, the timing of your purchase was under your control, and you took the decision to purchase when you did.

Do not make the mistake of thinking that a manufacture/dealer owes you anything more than the terms of your agreed contract. The repair of the faults is a totally separate issue to the change in purchase price and free accessories that might be offered to later purchasers.

I too have been caught out by purchasing something, only to find a couple of weeks later the price has been reduced or there is a sale on. - its very annoying but that is what happens.

If a dealer does agree to reduce a price after the contract has been signed, then that is a matter for the dealer to decide. There is no compulsion for them to do anything.

 

[robert_374370733]

Hi Alan, up until now we just wanted the van repaired. Due to mounting fustration that this request has not yet been addressed I would be keen to hear from anybody with knowledge or experience as to what my options are.

 

[trucker]

Robert, im sorry to here of your problems with your caravan, it sounds to me like the dealer is not "dealing" with the matter.

As for the price Im with John L on this one Currently mitsubishi have just anounsed a discount in Exeter dealer of

 

[trucker]

oh and by the way I bought a brand new Abbey in Oct 2006 By the Feb 2007 the microwave, digital fridge and cd radio were free, I paid for all 3. If only I waited

Then in 2008 they upgraded the dam thing and called it a vogue 2

with lots of other things, and so it goes on and on

 

[vernon]

When my wife buys her clothes from M&S, she keeps the receipt and if she hasn't worn it but sees the same item reduced, she takes it back - gets a refund on the original price, and buys the item again at the reduced price, she did this three times on a coat!

I keep telling her, we are paying M&S to store the clothes.

Caravans discounts are different - until M&S sell them perhaps!!!!!!

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hi again and again Bob!

Looking at a bit more detail in your first posting, you have a series of problems that clearly can be actioned under the sale of goods act.

Products with a manufacturing fault are the responsibility of the seller. Your seller is who ever takes your money, so that might be a finance house if you raised a loan with the caravan as security. that is worth bearing in mind. If you paid cash then the seller is the dealer.

Serious faults may be enough to warrant the whole caravan to be rejected and either for you to reclaim your money or a complete new caravan, or to have a competent repair carried out.

The following advice is based on past experience, and has been of use to others, but I am not a soliciter so I strongly suggest that you seek professional legal advice, but I suspect you will find it broadly follows teh following notes:

Whilst I know you would like to have a replacement or a refund, if you took the case to the small claims court, the courts do take a pragmatic view, and if the faults can be fully rectified, without compromising the the physical structure, aesthetic appearance and the market value of the product then the balance of probability would be in favour of a repair.

Based on your description of the faults, and serious as they are I think t is unlikely that you would be able to claim a full refund or replacement.

It seems that a repair will be the most likely course of action. You need to stir the dealer into action, and the most likely way to achieve this is write a carefully worded letter, stating the facts with dates, and pointing out that the faults are a result of the manufacturing process and as such the sale is in breach of the sale of Goods act. Give them a reasonable time to effect full and complete repairs (i.e 14 days), and advise them that if they do not comply, you will arrange to have the caravan repaired elsewhere and they will be liable for all repair costs inucured.

I know that you have involved Swift, but as they are not a party to your purchase contract, they have no direct jurisdiction in the matter, however they agree you have some rectifiable problems, and they may be able to bring pressure to bear on the dealer to effect a speedy solution.

 

[robert_374370733]

Hi John, thanks for the advice. What your saying makes good sense, and at the end of the day I just want a competent repair job done on the van. Any legal action would be as an extreme last resort namely due to the cost of legal and professional representation combined with the unpredictability of court outcomes.

 

[robert_374370733]

Only me again John, just wondering about your last paragraph which exhonorates the manufacturer from any liability. Given the van is sold with a manufacturer's warranty (a big reason for buying new), I would not be so sure that they can walk away so easily. Again I'm not a solicitor though my line of thought makes sense....at least to me. Regards Bob

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello Bob,

I am sorry to say that you have made a classic mistake, and its all down to wording.

A 'warranty' in relation to buying and selling is a statement a seller makes that says a product is free from defects when it changes hands at the point of sale. This is a legal requirement under the Sale of Goods Acts (SoGA.) also note that the warranty has no defined time limit of 12months. In practice some faults can still be subject to SoGA for up to 6 years

A 'Guarantee' is a statement that tells you how the guarantor will respond if a product fails due to a fault developing during use. The guarantor is often the manufacture where retail goods are concerned. It is not a legal requirement it is in fact a gift, and the manufacture can stipulate terms and conditions that must be followed if you intend to retain the scope of the guarantee. , and most importantly it cannot supersede your legal rights under the sale of goods act. You will probably recall that most guarantees have a phrase to the effect' this guarantee does not affect your legal rights'.

As such you do not get a 'manufactures warranty' unless they sell direct. The warranty is always the responsibility of the seller - the person or organisation that takes your money.

This may seem long winded, but in fact it is the most practical way to transfer responsibility. Roughly the same legal issues can arise at each transaction through the supply chain, so in a similar way that you might reject a product for being faulty to your seller, Your seller can reject it back up the chain to their seller and so on. That way the cost of the faulty part or process will find its way back to the point where the fault was created and impinge on any part of the supply chain that allowed the fault to pass through their hands.

Whilst your seller may not have manufactured the product, nor done anything to it, if it came to them in a faulty condition, they should have refused to accept it, or rejected it, rather than selling on in a faulty condition to you.

By selling it on in a faulty condition, they have failed to comply with SoGA, so why should they get off scott free, when they have made a bad business decision.

It is only when sellers accept that they have their legal responsibilities to their customers to supply only good product, then perhaps they will be more careful when purchasing and do the necessary checks to ensue the product is of merchantable quality. For caravans this means a proper PDI. - Which should be at their expense and not charged to the customer!

The manufactures guarantee, is a different kettle of fish. As I have said it is a gift with conditions and not required by law. So the content and working of the guarantee does vary from company to company, but most caravan manufactures offer the opportunity for a caravan owner to take their caravan to any signed up dealer to have guarantee work carried out. Most manufacturers also extend this and agree to honour warranty work as well, BUT only the supplying dealer is legally obliged to do warranty work, so depending on what the warranty work is, some none supplying dealers may refuse to do it.

I am sorry if this seems along winded answer, but I hope that it explains some of the issues relating to warranty/guarantee work.

I whole heartedly encourage you to work for an amicable solution, but if all else fails you might be able to get all the professional advice you need from the Citizens Advice Bureau, and Trading Standards. You will also find that by searching the www for County Court Small Claims, you will find it is not particularly difficult or costly. I suspect that if demonstrate sufficient resolve with your dealer and make them aware you are considering this course of action, you might actually get some spark of action from them, without actually have to issue a summons.

Just to muddy the waters a little more, there are also Extended Guarantees. These are actually an insurance policy, and what you pay is the policy premium. As with the Manufactures guarantee, it is not a legal requirement and it is also a conditional offer. It is down a personal choice if you wish to sign up to one, but it might be interesting to know that a proportion of the premium goes straight to the manufacturer and often works out as more than the average cost of any spare parts they end up supplying to repair long term breakdowns.

I personally steer clear of them because it represent a cost to me, which goes straight to the manufacture, when in many cases any faults are still covered by SoGA.