I have just purchased new alloys for my explore 474 caravan, my question is: can I use the wheel nuts from my steel wheels
alloy wheel nuts
- Thread starter graham_374551145
- Start date
Damian
Moderator
No , you will have to get specific alloy wheel nuts as the seating is different and the torque setting is higher than those used on steel wheels
They DON'T have to be specific ALLOY wheel nuts - they have to be the correct size and taper to fit the wheels AND the bolts - that's not the same thing.
Car manufacturers use the same nuts/bolts for each of their models for both steel and alloy wheels - M-B are the exception.
The wheel supplier should inform you of the correct nut/bolt specification.
Car manufacturers use the same nuts/bolts for each of their models for both steel and alloy wheels - M-B are the exception.
The wheel supplier should inform you of the correct nut/bolt specification.
excuse my ignorance here roger, but is it not recommended not to use steel studs/nuts along with alloy ?
im sure ive seen other threds in here referring to this.
im sure ive seen other threds in here referring to this.
See below an extract from A{pipe delimiter}l-ko's website.
Damian is absolutely correct!
ATTENTION
Some manufacturers are now being offered aluminium wheel rims as an option on many new caravan models. As there could be differences in installation requirements for steel and aluminium wheel rims, it is important to confirm fitment requirements with supplier/manufacturer of the wheel.
The standard M12 wheelbolt supplied by AL-KO (Our Part No. 2081670018) has a 60o conical seating arrangement and can be torqued to a MAXIMUM of 88 Nm (65 lb/ft).
If the seating in the wheel to be fitted differs from this or a higher torque value is required then an alternative wheelbolt will be required. This would normally have to be sourced through the wheel supplier as there is no alternative in the AL-KO range.
Cheers
Dustydog
Damian is absolutely correct!
ATTENTION
Some manufacturers are now being offered aluminium wheel rims as an option on many new caravan models. As there could be differences in installation requirements for steel and aluminium wheel rims, it is important to confirm fitment requirements with supplier/manufacturer of the wheel.
The standard M12 wheelbolt supplied by AL-KO (Our Part No. 2081670018) has a 60o conical seating arrangement and can be torqued to a MAXIMUM of 88 Nm (65 lb/ft).
If the seating in the wheel to be fitted differs from this or a higher torque value is required then an alternative wheelbolt will be required. This would normally have to be sourced through the wheel supplier as there is no alternative in the AL-KO range.
Cheers
Dustydog
thanks guys for all your comments - it seems i need to contact the wheel manufacturer
thanks again Graham
IF alloy wheels need different wheel nuts/ bolts to steel wheels - someone needs to tell the motor industry - they simply ensure that alloy/steel specifications are the same and use the same torque setting.
If a caravan manufacturer fits straight-taper steel wheels and spherical taper alloys, or vice-versa, it's an unsafe practice.
If caravan alloys need different nuts/bolts to steel - you'd better not have a steel spare!
If a caravan manufacturer fits straight-taper steel wheels and spherical taper alloys, or vice-versa, it's an unsafe practice.
If caravan alloys need different nuts/bolts to steel - you'd better not have a steel spare!
If you have alloy wheels and the correct bolts then these can happily be used on steel wheels. You just do not tighten them so much. However, bolts designed for steel wheels cannot be used on alloys as the grade of steel is different and cannot take the higher torque.
Again, it would be sensible for all bolts to be made suitable for both alloys and steel wheels, but again ALKO seem to try and reduce the options available to their customers. They know full well that many manufacturers supply alloy wheels as standard but instead of listing a specification that should be followed, sidestep the issue.
One does wonder what the manufacturers do with all the spare steel wheels and tyres they 'inherit' with the chassis from ALKO.
Again, it would be sensible for all bolts to be made suitable for both alloys and steel wheels, but again ALKO seem to try and reduce the options available to their customers. They know full well that many manufacturers supply alloy wheels as standard but instead of listing a specification that should be followed, sidestep the issue.
One does wonder what the manufacturers do with all the spare steel wheels and tyres they 'inherit' with the chassis from ALKO.
By the way, even in the motor industry there are different torque settings for steel or alloy wheels. I suspect this is due to the lower flexibility of the alloy, so a higher tightening torque is necessary.
aye ok roger,did say excuse my ignorance on the matter.
i didnt know if the combo was homogeneous or hetrogeneous.
i didnt know if the combo was homogeneous or hetrogeneous.
It depends on the profile of the bolt holes in the steel wheels
Swift at least now have the profile such that the alloy wheel bolts fitted as standard can be used with the steel spare
This wasn't/isn't always the case and I carry a set of steel wheel bolts which came in handy when the alloy wheel and some bolts disappeared en route 2 years ago(came off and went into the canal was decided after extensive search!)
Swift at least now have the profile such that the alloy wheel bolts fitted as standard can be used with the steel spare
This wasn't/isn't always the case and I carry a set of steel wheel bolts which came in handy when the alloy wheel and some bolts disappeared en route 2 years ago(came off and went into the canal was decided after extensive search!)
Just checked the Bailey handbook and they say that alloy wheel bolts used on steel wheels should be torqued to the steel wheel bolt torque so presumably its Ok to use the same bolts on Bailey steel and alloy wheels providing they are the alloy wheel ones
Damian
Moderator
Alloy wheel bolts are ok touse on steel wheels as the torque for alloys is 110nm, but for steel is 88nm, so just use 88nm if you have to use the spare.
Obviously the seating taper may not be the same but it wil be sufficient until the damaged alloy tyre can be replaced, which should be as soon as possible.
Obviously the seating taper may not be the same but it wil be sufficient until the damaged alloy tyre can be replaced, which should be as soon as possible.
Damian, what you have just said is both untrue and a very dangerous statement to make.
The alloy bolts might be strong enough in the "yield strength" sense but to advise anyone to use a wheel with miss matching seating tapers is absolutely wrong even for a few miles. The contact area will be much reduced and on the road this could lead to local deformation and rapid loosening of the wheel. Even if the wheel is not lost both the wheel and bolts will not be safe for reuse after such abuse.
The alloy bolts might be strong enough in the "yield strength" sense but to advise anyone to use a wheel with miss matching seating tapers is absolutely wrong even for a few miles. The contact area will be much reduced and on the road this could lead to local deformation and rapid loosening of the wheel. Even if the wheel is not lost both the wheel and bolts will not be safe for reuse after such abuse.
Damian
Moderator
JTQ, whilst I appreciate your comment, it is not as bad as you are trying to make out.
If you have no other option in an emergency situation and do not have two sets of bolts, then using the bolts for alloy wheels will get you out of a situation.
I do NOT mean driving at the max speed, but taken carefully it will not present a problem.
I have, and know of many others who have, had to do this at one time or another and it has not been an issue, and the bolts were fine, the wheel did not fall off, and no damage was done to the steel wheel.
If you have no other option in an emergency situation and do not have two sets of bolts, then using the bolts for alloy wheels will get you out of a situation.
I do NOT mean driving at the max speed, but taken carefully it will not present a problem.
I have, and know of many others who have, had to do this at one time or another and it has not been an issue, and the bolts were fine, the wheel did not fall off, and no damage was done to the steel wheel.
Then really it is irresponsible of us to go caravanning without the right bolts for the job. Its not as if the cost, weight and bulk of a set are significant relative to so much that we take as indulgences?
Its also irresponsible that if the UK manufacturers supply wheels requiring differing bolts they don't supply them as standard if you opt for a spare-wheel. How different to my German vans, not only the spare but the bolts and a very clear statement about using the right bolts.
Its also irresponsible that if the UK manufacturers supply wheels requiring differing bolts they don't supply them as standard if you opt for a spare-wheel. How different to my German vans, not only the spare but the bolts and a very clear statement about using the right bolts.
Damian
Moderator
Oh to live in a perfect world !
I have a German van, and very nice it is.
But, they dont get everything right all of the time.
I have a German van, and very nice it is.
But, they dont get everything right all of the time.
It is very bad practice. The wheel location and much of the load carrying is on the taper contact area, all the fluctuating rolling load once the contact relaxes. Its not as if loose wheels is unheard of on caravans even with the designed taper contact?
Damian
Moderator
My lunar Lexon twin has alloy wheels.The handbook says
NB:Special nuts are supplied with alloy wheels and these can be used where a steel wheel is used as a temporary spare.
It also say IMPORTANT When a wheel has been removed and replaced the torque of the wheel nuts should be re-checked after approximately 15 miles of running.
Thats what I have had to do in the past with no problem.
Jim
NB:Special nuts are supplied with alloy wheels and these can be used where a steel wheel is used as a temporary spare.
It also say IMPORTANT When a wheel has been removed and replaced the torque of the wheel nuts should be re-checked after approximately 15 miles of running.
Thats what I have had to do in the past with no problem.
Jim
The steel wheels fitted by ALKO have a 60 degree profile which is the same as most alloys, so they will seat just the same. The big difference is the torque as the alloys are much more rigid in design.
If you look at this link from AL-KO scroll down to page 44 right hand side of page FIG 42, it is showing two types of bolts? i have a spare set specifically for the steel spare wheel.
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AL-KOmatic
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