Another faulty blown air heater

[Andrew_5105555]

I have a carver fan master 4000f,it stopped blowing hot air in the summer but only on electric,it was fine with gas.I was advised through the forum that it could be the slider swich pcb,anyway i left it until we finished touring for the year,i have now checkedelectric again and the fault has developed.

Now when i switch the heater on with the switch under the seats the main breaker drops if i disconnect the slider switch it still trips out any help would be appreciated ta Andrew+Nicola.

 

[gary]

A nice simple problem to solve then!

First the slide switch will still possibly be faulty but the second is because of the lack of use since whatever went wrong in the summer?

The element/s while dormant will have absorbed some moisture, this is causing a leakage to earth and tripping the RCD.

Possible solution is to run the gas fire for a considerable time at a high setting to dry out the elements, this though while on a high gas setting will also require the fan running.

I'm not though 100% clear if only the electric heating was not working as you seem to suggest the fan works ok?

If the fan does work ok then this suggests the slide switch may not be at fault, at least entirely.

Do all the lights on the switch work brightly and only one at a time?

gary... AKA Diane!?

 

[Andrew_5105555]

A nice simple problem to solve then!

First the slide switch will still possibly be faulty but the second is because of the lack of use since whatever went wrong in the summer?

The element/s while dormant will have absorbed some moisture, this is causing a leakage to earth and tripping the RCD.

Possible solution is to run the gas fire for a considerable time at a high setting to dry out the elements, this though while on a high gas setting will also require the fan running.

I'm not though 100% clear if only the electric heating was not working as you seem to suggest the fan works ok?

If the fan does work ok then this suggests the slide switch may not be at fault, at least entirely.

Do all the lights on the switch work brightly and only one at a time?

gary... AKA Diane!?

Hi yes the fan runs fine and blows out when i use gas heat,the lights on the slider come on in sequence and i can hear relays clicking,one light seems slightly duller than the others but does come on.

ta Andrew.

 

[gary]

One dim light might just be some fluff down the hole, however it could well be a fault if the holes clear. Fan working and relays clicking though is a sign the switch is trying to work, it also suggests the main control board is ok as this is responding to the switch correctly.

Truth is though I would not even look elsewhere for a fault unless the switch has been checked first. My guess is one of solder joints of the pins of the switches connector header is broken inside the switch.

A sure sign of damage is the header bent back where it's been strained perhaps by the whole fire front jumping off while travelling?

It sure be square too and the plastic pad firmly down on the pcb

 

[Andrew_5105555]

Hi Gary i have been away for the weekend dried heater out with gas and it now does'nt trip out. I replaced the slider switch the heater blows ok but does not get hot on electric,it is fine on gas,do you think the heater is beyond repair? Any further help would be appreciated ta Andrew.

 

[gary]

Beyond repair? lets start the new year with some confidence eh!

From what you have said the relays are clicking on an off which means if 240v is getting to the relays it should pass to the elements.

So is the power switched on at the isolation switch and is the mains 'kettle' plug type connection to the heater fully pushed in? you will find this plug behind the heater in the top right hand corner. This is where the main control box is and the kettle plug pushes in sideways at the bottom of the box.

Won't be the first time one of these plugs has vibrated out!

PS don't throw the old slide switch away, infact how did you manage to get a replacement?

 

[Andrew_5105555]

Hi Gary i have tried the kettle type plug it is all the way in (i unplugged it and put it back in).I got a new slider switch from Barrons in the north west i was working local and called in and was suprised they had them in stock.

 

[gary]

I should have known the kettle plug was in and power getting to the heater...otherwise it would not have been tripping out on the RCD!! ~Dooh

I've ignored both elements being duff as ones a possibility but two going down together seems to remote, however to be sure you will need to check them. The element connections are behind the gas control rod under a long slim metal box, this box is held by a single screw at the bottom which once removed allows the box to go up and off.

Now you will see the two pairs of wires going to the elements, red and black to one and brown and black to the other, between these two pairs and using a multimeter you should get 58-60 ohms resistance. Make sure all 240v power to the van is disconnected while your doing this ~underlined.

At the moment though I'm still assuming these are ok which leaves one or two other possibilities, one is, I've once know a fault on the temperature sensor to kill the electric heating.

The sensors two thin black wires plug into the control box at the top, un-plug this connection and see if it works now?

It's also possible theres a fault on the slide switch loom connectors

 

[Andrew_5105555]

Thanks Gary i will have a look at them at the weekend and speak to you again next week Andrew.

 

[Andrew_5105555]

Hi gary after between weekends away and work i have stripped the heater and done the checks you suggested,i removed the cover to the heater elements between the black and red wire(bottom element) i am getting zero ohms,between the brown and black wires i get 59 ohms,so maybe i have been running on one element for a while,could one element faulty cause the heater to fail?I also unplugged the heat sensor and this made no difference.I have checked all wiring and connections from slide control to control box and unplugged/checked all other connections.I also then plugged the van in and checked voltage to both elements and i am getting zero volts.

Have i missed anything kind regards andrew.

 

[mauron]

Hi Guys,

I've been totally enthralled with this thread. (NO, I'm not joking....really!) I'm looking forward to Gary's response on this, it's very impressive to think of all that knowledge out there.

Cheers Ron.

(Do you think I should get out more?)

 

[gary]

Tell you what Ron it's dragging on a bit, 20 odd weeks I make it? I must have had in, fixed and send back a dozen of these fires plus countless slide switches in the mean time?

Anyway one element down would make no difference except it's only giving half the heat! problem would seem to be in the main control box if we can rule out the 'brand new' slide switch?

The really bad news is new elements are rarer than Hens teeth so unless Barron's have some of these squirrelled away your stuck with one for the time being.

I was going to look which wire feeds element one so the good one can be powered with slow fan or it will be worse than useless on it's own on fast fan.

I will check and let you know but I think it's time for you to send control box, slide switch and connection loom to me for checking.

I will get to the bottom of it!

 

[Andrew_5105555]

Tell you what Ron it's dragging on a bit, 20 odd weeks I make it? I must have had in, fixed and send back a dozen of these fires plus countless slide switches in the mean time?

Anyway one element down would make no difference except it's only giving half the heat! problem would seem to be in the main control box if we can rule out the 'brand new' slide switch?

The really bad news is new elements are rarer than Hens teeth so unless Barron's have some of these squirrelled away your stuck with one for the time being.

I was going to look which wire feeds element one so the good one can be powered with slow fan or it will be worse than useless on it's own on fast fan.

I will check and let you know but I think it's time for you to send control box, slide switch and connection loom to me for checking.

I will get to the bottom of it!

Hi gary thanks for the response i will remove the items you require is the cntrol box the black box all the wires plug into?i will remove the slider and the loom from this to the control box and send them to you if you could let me know where to send them thanks again for your quick response and help,ps hi ron sorry to say the saga may soon be over.

 

[Andrew_5105555]

Hi gary see my reply above ta andrew.

 

[gary]

Contact details on my website Andrew, www.arcsystems.biz

 

[Andrew_5105555]

Hi gary sussed out the problem with heater,i stripped tonite to send you the bits,checked out wiring loom this checked out ok,so i removed and stripped control unit worked out how it worked then carefully reconnected it and switched on,when slider is moved only one of the relays is now operating and this was the one feeding the faulty element so i have swopped the wires and the heater is working now albeit only with one element.

I think it has only been working on one element since we got the van so it now feels normal to us,so i have 2 faults probley breaking at diffrent times.

Anyway thanks for all your help over the last 10weeks if i could buy you a beer i would thanks again,

Andrew+Nicola.