Another slice of RIP OFF Britain--The DVLA !!

[NickinFrance]

Presumably those that were taken off the road were confiscated because they were not insured, not because they were not taxed, or the owners were considered by the French authorities as being residents of France and not visitors,

They were taken for 1 of 2 reasons:
1, They were not legal in their country of registration, i.e. no Tax or insurance or MoT, although frequently all 3. For a vehicle to be driven legally in an EU country it MUST be FULLY legal in it's country of registration.
2, Because they were French residents who hadn't re-registered or at least started the re-registration process within a month of their becoming resident.

 

[Lutz]

But fully legal does not mean that they must be taxed in their country of registration. They must only be insured and technically legal. I can't speak for the UK, but it is common for Germans who tour abroad for extended periods to deregister their vehicles when leaving their country and just keep a valid insurance. In fact, they have to as they have to prove that they have a permanent address in the country in order to pay tax. Without a permanent address you get temporary (tax-free) export number plates and the car has to be out of the country within a set period. If there were an EU requirement to have the car taxed, as you suggest, this would not be possible.

 

[NickinFrance]

But fully legal does not mean that they must be taxed in their country of registration.

From the link provided by Gafferbill above:'Taking your vehicle abroad for less than 12 months (temporary export)
If a UK registered vehicle is taken abroad temporarily, it remains subject to UK law. This means that you as the keeper, must by law make sure that the vehicle stays taxed while it’s overseas'
As you can't get a Tax disk without a valid MoT & UK Insurance, it follows that all 3 are needed.
More importantly, that is Le Flicks interpretation of the law.

 

[Lutz]

The above can surely only apply if you continue to be a UK resident. It would be interesting to know how the French police differentiate between a UK visitor whose car appently has to be taxed regardless of whether he is still a UK resident or not, and a Continental visitor to France whose car is not taxed if he is no longer a resident of his home country. Looks like someone is applying two different yardsticks for the same situation.

 

[Gafferbill]

…….. in my opinion Nick in France is correct in all aspects as regards previously UK registered cars.

Like it or not the DVLA is the governing authority over UK registered vehicles.
Their position is stated in the link I have previously provided and once the vehicle has been kept abroad for longer than 12 months it is effectively stateless unless registered in the country it is now kept.
For purposes of policing it will not appear on the database on its new home country.
If the correct forms are not filled in and sent to the DVLA then the vehicle cannot return to the UK without committing an offence if it is driven on UK roads.
If the vehicle is not registered in France then it is up to the French authorities what action they take.
Nick has describe some such action!
I too know a friend who kept a stateless previously UK registered vehicle in France for over 2yrs with French insurance and no Contrôle Technique certificate (MOT)
Last winter he wrote the vehicle off on icy roads and his French insurer paid up in full without batting an eyelid!

The DVLA make the British position crystal clear……. in France it all seems to be a grey area!

 

[NickinFrance]

The above can surely only apply if you continue to be a UK resident.

No, the above applies if you are driving a UK registered vehicle, if you are a resident in another country you must re-register the vehicle in that country.

 

[Lutz]

But what if you give up residency in the UK to go touring for over a year during which you do not become a resident of any other country? The DVLA will never catch up with you once you are out of the country and you can't continue to have the car taxed in the UK if you no longer have a UK address to go back to. Like Gafferbill says, the car virtually becomes "stateless" although it still retains UK number plates.

 

[NickinFrance]

But what if you give up residency in the UK to go touring for over a year during which you do not become a resident of any other country?

I'm not saying that the UK law is logical or enforcible but it is the law. I guess they must think that everyone must be resident somewhere (I don't mean resident for tax purposes)
I would have thought it would be difficult to get insurance with 'no fixed abode' as well.

 

[TheTravellingRooster]

Hi to you all,and 602 of #8. Am I missing something here?!!. A 1973 now't to tax Land Rover is now't to tax because of the age of the whole vehicle and as at the day it was made;is it not?. The Taxation Class is surely on engine size and year of manufacture of the whole vehicle in the first instance. The Discovery was first launch I believe in 1989 and as such the early versions come into the £205.00 per annum bracket. This alteration becomes a modification and by rights should be declared for insurance purposes and move it from exemption bracket into the bracket of thank you very much for your roadfund fee.

 

[JonnyG]

Eu law over rides any regional law, where an Eu country is concerned. The important issue here is one of insurance, and having no tax does not invalidate Insurance, although some insurance companies would have you believe it did.But that case has been addressed.
So if you buy a new car or one that is only a say a year old, then as an MOT is not needed till its 3 years old, as long as you get insurance that covers you for use abroad for 365 days of the year, then according to EU law you are Legal...

 

[Lutz]

I'm not saying that the UK law is logical or enforcible but it is the law. I guess they must think that everyone must be resident somewhere (I don't mean resident for tax purposes)
I would have thought it would be difficult to get insurance with 'no fixed abode' as well.

In many European countries one has to be registered with a local authority in order to qualify as a resident and to be able to register one has to provide documentary evidence of ownership or a rental agreement. It is not possible to register without such proof and one is then not liable for tax (but also not eligible for any benefits, either). A contact address alone is not sufficient.
A foreign visitor purchasing a vehicle can definitely get it insured even though he is unable to qualify as a resident (although, by my own experience, the premiums are generally quite high). For insurance purposes, insurance companies will accept a c/o address.

 

[NickinFrance]

Jonnyg, as many EU countries apply different rules to this situation, I doubt if there is a definitive EU rule on this, also you want to tell the DVLA they are wrong

Lutz, I can only comment on the UK & France but there is no requirement for an EU citizen to register as a resident in either of these countries.
I had a conversation with a UK Police Officer friend a couple of months ago on a similar subject: as a French resident I can drive my French registered car in the UK, whereas my UK resident son can't but if I were stopped in the UK, I have no way to prove I am a French resident, equally, if he was stopped driving his UK registered car in France, he has no way to prove he is a UK resident.

 

[Lutz]

Jonnyg, as many EU countries apply different rules to this situation, I doubt if there is a definitive EU rule on this, also you want to tell the DVLA they are wrong

As you say, there is no common EU rule although I don't know of any country that allows uninsured vehicles to be used on public roads. Taxation is (still) something over which the EU has no control and each country can apply rules as they see fit. Unless specific arrangements have been made to prevent dual taxation, whether tax that is due elsewhere abroad is paid or not is none of their business. However, this works both ways. I heard of a case recently of someone with two permanent addresses at which he was registered, one in Germany and the other in an adjacent country (I can't remember which) and the authorities in both countries insisted that he must register his car in the respective country (and, of course, pay vehicle tax in both). This meant that he also has to have two number plates for the same car, that he has to switch every time he crosses the border. This is probably an exceptional case, as few people will lay claim to two permanent addresses in different countries, but it just goes to show how complicated things can get.

 

[602]

Hi,

My understanding is that a French resident MUST NOT drive a non-French registered car. But can anybody correct or clarify that?

602

 

[Lutz]

If he is liable for tax in France, yes, but only while driving the car in France (he can drive it elsewhere as a visitor)

 

[NickinFrance]

My understanding is that a French resident MUST NOT drive a non-French registered car. But can anybody correct or clarify that?

That is correct, nothing to do with tax, if they are resident, they can't drive a non-French registered car.
In the same way as a UK resident can't drive a non-UK registered car in the UK.

 

[Surfer]

You can only give up residency after 2 years unless you are permanently emigrating however if you return you will be slapped with £120 in fines as the vehicle should have had a SORN declared on it. This is a certificate where you declare the car off road so that you do not pay tax. If you say to them the car was not in Britain at the time then it is still off road.
Anyway how would you get it from the English port to your inland destination without tax as you will not be able to apply for tax until you have paid the fine for not having a SORN. Not worth the effort of evading road tax!

 

[Lutz]

My understanding is that a French resident MUST NOT drive a non-French registered car. But can anybody correct or clarify that?

That is correct, nothing to do with tax, if they are resident, they can't drive a non-French registered car.
In the same way as a UK resident can't drive a non-UK registered car in the UK.

Of course it has something to do with tax. If you are a resident of a country you automatically become tax liable in that country. If you then drive a foreign car you would effectively be committing tax evasion because you would not be not paying any vehicle tax in the country where you are tax liable. (Any vehicle tax that may have been payed will have been done so abroad and that is of no concern to the tax authorities of the country in which one lives)
There is no law that forbids you, per se, to drive a foreign vehicle, but it has everything to do with using a vehicle without paying vehicle tax in the country in which you have taken up residency.

 

[Lutz]

Anyway how would you get it from the English port to your inland destination without tax as you will not be able to apply for tax until you have paid the fine for not having a SORN. Not worth the effort of evading road tax!

One could either get it from the port to your inland destination using trade plates or on the back of a trailer. That shouldn't be too difficult.