Another towing weight question.

[scaryt]

Hi. I'm sure you've all read and answered these questions a hundred times before but I'm really rather baffled.

I've read that you should ideally tow 85% of the car's kerbweight.

I have a skoda octavia 1.9tdi with a kerbweight of 1375. The manual says it can tow 1400. We've fallen for a swift challenger 5 berth 2002 model in immaculate condition but its unladen weight is 1164 kg its MTPLM is 1419 kg.

Is it utterly ridiculous to even contemplate this caravan?

Thanks so much for the advice.

 

[Lutz]

Where did you get the kerbweight figure for your car of 1375kg from? If it says so in the V5c certificate, fair enough, but data published in brochures etc. can only be taken as a guideline and is normally very conservative. However, assuming 1375kg is correct and 1400kg is the maximum permissible towload, then your outfit will have a load ratio of over 100% and you will also be fairly close to the manufacturer's limit if the caravan is loaded up to the maximum. The outfit will therefore be anything but ideal. If you have never towed before, I'd be very wary about such a combination.

 

[scaryt]

Where did you get the kerbweight figure for your car of 1375kg from? If it says so in the V5c certificate, fair enough, but data published in brochures etc. can only be taken as a guideline and is normally very conservative. However, assuming 1375kg is correct and 1400kg is the maximum permissible towload, then your outfit will have a load ratio of over 100% and you will also be fairly close to the manufacturer's limit if the caravan is loaded up to the maximum. The outfit will therefore be anything but ideal. If you have never towed before, I'd be very wary about such a combination.

Hmm, I've no idea where I got that number from now but I definitely saw it somewhere.

The manual says "unloaden weight ready for work" 1310, is that the kerbweight? Will dig out the V5 certificate to check.

 

[seth1]

Dont load the caravan to the max.

 

[scaryt]

My instinct was to not load it to the max but have scared myself by reading about the 85% limit.

Why does the manual suggest a higher limit than the car can tow?

 

[seth1]

Quite a few far more experianced caravanners than myself who post on this forum suggest the 85% rule to be outdated.Of course overloading the tow wieght of the tow car is something else again.Me personally would put some wieght in it to what im happy with and wiegh the outfit.

 

[Lutz]

Where did you get the kerbweight figure for your car of 1375kg from? If it says so in the V5c certificate, fair enough, but data published in brochures etc. can only be taken as a guideline and is normally very conservative. However, assuming 1375kg is correct and 1400kg is the maximum permissible towload, then your outfit will have a load ratio of over 100% and you will also be fairly close to the manufacturer's limit if the caravan is loaded up to the maximum. The outfit will therefore be anything but ideal. If you have never towed before, I'd be very wary about such a combination.

"Unladen weight ready for work" suggests that it could be the kerbweight, but there are so many definitions that it is impossible to understand exactly what the publisher meant by the term. There is the term "unladen weight" which normally does not include the driver or fuel, then there is "kerbweight" which is understood to include a full fuel tank but not driver, and finally there is the "mass is running order" which is an EU-wide definiton including a 90% full fuel tank and 75kg for driver and sundry items. The V5c certificate introduces another term "mass in service", but that is understood to be the same as "mass in running order".

 

[Mel]

You are working with two different measures. The maximum towing weight for the car is a measure of the car's power. It is the weight that the car can pull from standing on a 1 in 4 slope (or something like that). The 85%-100% of kerbweight is what is recommended for towing stability. If you put a caravan that is heavier than the car onto that car this is bad news stability wise. Look in your cars handbook and find the kerb weight, or kerbside weight. This might help. Also have a look at whattowcar website as it helps with matching the outfit.

hope this helps

mel

 

[Lutz]

The manual does not suggest a higher limit than the car can tow. The manual specifies the technical limit, irrespective of what you are towing. However, in the UK it is generally recognised that the weight of a caravan should ideally not exceed 85% of the kerbweight of the towing vehicle, but this is only a recommendation, not a rule. The car may be approved by the manufacturer to tow a good deal more than 85% of the kerbweight (in isolated instances it could, however, be less), but anything higher than 100% is generally considered to be less than ideal for something as boxy as a caravan and only really be applicable to low-loader trailers.

 

[Gafferbill]

Sarah

The answer to your question is yes.. unless you change your towcar.

Also bear in mind if you passed your driving test on or after January 1st 1997 and thus only have category B entitlement you cannot legally tow with the outfit you are contemplating using the figures you give unless you take a further test

Details here...

http://www.practicalcaravan.com/newforums/fm_messages.asp?FO=13&FM=511599

 

[scaryt]

Thanks all for the detailed answers.

I'm gutted that this caravan won't work as the layout is perfect and can I find that layout in a lighter caravan that is local? It would seem not! And, clearly, I am too fussy.

I have found a lunar quasar with a 1300 MTPLM but still too heavy if I take "unladen weight ready for work" 1310 (which is what it says in the manual) to mean kerbweight.

Will find a corner to sulk quietly!

 

[scaryt]

Just wanted to say I passed my diving test in 1992 so before they changed the regulations on towing.

 

[Lutz]

The caravan would work, Sarah, but it would be less than ideal. That's all I am saying.

 

[scaryt]

Gosh I've just realised how my last comment sounded more huffy than intended (insert an embarrassed face here). I've just started understanding that my dream of the 2002 swift challenger 490 layout might be more of a fantasy than a reality.

I really don't want to be towing anything that would make me unsafe at all and am most grateful for the honest feedback.

I'm thinking even 1300 is sailing close to the wind on the search for a good lightweight 5 berth with corner seating at the back (you see I am *that* fussy1!).

 

[Grahamsprite4]

the octavia 1.9tdi has a minimum kerb weight of 1410 hope this helps Sarah

Graham

 

[scaryt]

the octavia 1.9tdi has a minimum kerb weight of 1410 hope this helps Sarah

Graham

That sounds like music to my ears. Do you mind me asking where you get that weight from?

 

[forestgump]

sarah have a look at the sprite range made by swift but a lot lighter and a bit more modest but still a good van.

 

[IanofMeon]

Hi Sarah

I've owned 4 Octavia 1.9 diesels, the latest one a 2009 Elegance model, my V5 has never given me the mass in service figure. In the past I have emailed Skoda Customer Services with my chassis number and they have returned my exact kerbweight as it left the factory, however they're not so helpful these days. The figure you quote 1310 does not include driver or fuel and is for the base model, now called S used to be called Classic, the higher models with more spec are heavier. With my Elegance the kerbweight with driver and fuel works out just over 1430kgs but maximum tow is 1400. I have always tried to keep with the 85% recommendation and currently tow a Ranger 460/4 at 1208kgs, it tows like a dream and I would be perfectly comfortable to tow heavier maybe up to 1350kgs, there is enough oomph in reserve to cope with that, weight ratios would also be okay if you put some heavy items, wheelclamp. awning etc in car bearing in mind the cars own weight limit. The Octavias gross vehicle weight is 1970kgs, i.e the car plus what you put in it must not exceed 1970, the gross train weight ie the car and load and trailer/caravan must not exceed 3370kgs. The noseweight limit is 75kgs which is counted as part of the car weight so your ideal caravan you've seen at 1419kgs less 75kgs equals 1344kgs if you fully load it. You would not be illegal but it may be too much if you're not used to towing.

Hope this helps.

 

[scaryt]

Thank you all so much. I was concerned about towing something that, although legal, might not be ideal. I saw an ad for an Adria Altea with MTPLM of 1200kg on Sunday night and we bought it yesterday!!!

Thanks Ian for your detailed response regarding Octavias. I'm now even more comfortable that we should be towing safely. Although that first tow up the M1 home will test the nerves.

Do you think it would be a good investment to buy a noseweight gauge?

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello Sarah,

As nose weight is subject to legal limits, then yes a nose weight gauge is definitely a good investment, BUT, whilst it may not be obvious to everyone but the actual load the hitch applies to the car is dependant on the height of the hitch from the floor.

With single axle caravans the change in load as the height of hitch changes is quite smooth, but with a twin axle the change can be quite dramatic over a few cm, so it is vitally important to measure it correctly, even more so as I believe the max nose load limit for the Octavia is only 50Kg.

The nose load of the caravan must be measured with the hitch of the caravan at the same height above level ground as when it is hitched to the car and is ready to roll with all luggage and passengers.

All of the proprietary gauges I have seen do not adjust for height so they may give you a false reading. Even those that fit to the ball on the car add a few cm to the hitch height and thus give a false reading. Many people find that pair of bathroom scales with boom handle cut to length is the cheapest simplest and in many cases more accurate method, though care must be taken to ensure the broom handle does not jump out of engagement with the hitch.

 

[IanofMeon]

Hi Sarah

I agree 100% with John re the noseweight gauges, I reverted back to scales with an old broom handle cut to the exact length that my car would be towing at. However Johns figures for noseweight are wrong, the first Octavias up to 2004 had 60kgs noseweight, the later ones up to now 75kgs.

Ian

 

[scaryt]

I have 75kgs in my head but have read so much recently I have no idea where I got that from.

Is the milenco gauge any good? Otherwise will try the bathroom scales option.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Sarah

I'm sorry if I got you nose weight allowance wrong, you need to check your handbook or speak to the dealer or manufacture to find out what you limit is.

Unless the Milenco exactly matches the height of the hitch when the caravan is connected then no, because it will give yo a false reading.