Are Caravan folk different to other people?

[Parksy]

I was happy and really interested whilst following the other topic about about Government expenditure, it beats what loo chemical or porch awning to use

I 'm sure I got a vote as a European to choose our local MEP and as a tax payer I thought I also paid money to Brussels. A lot of caravan's venture across the channel and tour throughout our EU land. I've been told that I'm an EU voter and citizen with an EU Parliament. Do UK caravan people now lose those rights if we are only allowed to discuss and comment on domestic UK issues

"There has been a wide spectrum of opinion expressed but this discussion has gone from domestic financial cuts to the wider implications of EEC membership and it's straying well outside the remit of a caravan forum anyway.
Most of those with strong opinions have expressed them so it's time to put this topic to bed now"

Ros

 

[Parksy]

I don't intend to enter into any sort of argument about your 'rights', what taxes you pay to whom or what you are allowed to discuss.
When Parliament or the Brussels bureaucrats pay for this forum I'm sure that your rights will be upheld.
We tend to discuss things such as toilet chemicals and porch awnings on this caravan forum because there isn't much information about them on political websites or in party manifestos.
You've had your say, I'm glad that it made you happy but the topic is now closed.

 

[OmOnWeelz]

I don't intend to enter into any sort of argument about your 'rights', what taxes you pay to whom or what you are allowed to discuss.
When Parliament or the Brussels bureaucrats pay for this forum I'm sure that your rights will be upheld.
We tend to discuss things such as toilet chemicals and porch awnings on this caravan forum because there isn't much information about them on political websites or in party manifestos.
You've had your say, I'm glad that it made you happy but the topic is now closed.

WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOAH what have rights to do with my question. GOM syndrom is it? Did Mrs Parksy not have your dinner on the table waiting for you

I've not known caravans have anyting to with party politics or voting but finance sittuation's throughout Europe does affect caravan users as we have to pay local prices and VAT and Fuel rates when touring. We go to the Irish rebublic every year and sometimes take the caravan, it's not a cheap holiday now and with the current crisis and a VAT and TAX hike proposed there it could get a lot more expensive as could caravan trips to other EU countries if current problems get to a crisis.
But I'm really genuinely very sorry I said anything, that is controversial I'll repeat ten times "I must stick to TV reception and issues regarding recording soaps in the caravan"

I guess that Practical Caravan just wants us to be Little Britain caravanner's only

Ros

 

[Damian]

Hmmm

 

[Lord Braykewynde]

Hmmm

Hmmm????

That's not much of a clue. Hmmmm it a bit more and I'll name that tune in five.

 

[ShadySadie]

In answer to the original question. Some here possibly are

Learn from my PC forum experience OmOnWeelz - Ros, it's a waste of time questioning what goes on here, the forum has had a full frontal lobotomy and positive humour re-alignment

but the moderators were left with their S of H.
The moderators here are a nice bunch but they don't eat, they hang by their toes in darkened rooms and swoop in when something flutters down here. Damian's 'Hmmm????' will be due to his vague last memories of eating a dinner in his pre-moderator days.

Nice to see you Parksy and Damian. Don't worry my broomstick has been clamped

Sadie

 

[Parksy]

WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOAH what have rights to do with my question. GOM syndrom is it? Did Mrs Parksy not have your dinner on the table waiting for you

Do UK caravan people now lose those rights if we are only allowed to discuss and comment on domestic UK issuesSurprised

Hi Om On Wheels (collectively known as Ros & Chris)
The examples above surely show why mods intervene in topics now and again.
It's fine to have a bit of a moan about Government policy or things which we dislike but when we start to become partisan or insistent as far as this forum is concerned it's time to draw stumps.
It's all too easy to lose track of what we wrote previously as the examples quoted clearly show. You mentioned your rights that you asked about losing then later asked what the same rights had to do with the question.
I'm not attempting to belittle anyone, we've all felt strongly that the mods have been unjust and it's all so unfair from time to time but the discussion had run it's course and had started to go around in circles so it ended.
I enjoy the odd political debate but as the old saying goes - there's a time and a place and the Practical Caravan forum is no platform for strong opinions.
Enjoy using the forum for what it is, the heavy stuff just turns regular members who are interested in caravans off using the forum for what it was meant for.

 

[colin-yorkshire1]

I enjoy the odd political debate but as the old saying goes - there's a time and a place and the forum is no platform for strong opinions.
Enjoy using the forum for what it is, the heavy stuff just turns regular members who are interested in caravans off using the forum for what it was meant for.

I refer the gentleman to a comment I made earlier "I thought we did NOT do politics on this forum well I never guess the mods are all asleep or it's ok as long as we are all on the same side peeing in the same bucket and slapping each other on the back"..

to which he replied
"Hi Colin, surely you know by now that the mods never sleep

Since the new forum was launched the mods have at long last been given proper moddying tackle so it's a very simple matter to edit or delete comments which cross the line and we can also lock topics if we have to."

Quite right as far as it goes, however all long topics go astray at some point thats the very nature of forums any debate will have opposing views some of these quite strongly held be it political or technical in nature defining a debate into very narrow constraints not only defeats the object of a debate but also stops it widening out to cover other related topics I would say this enhances the job of a forum to show a wider held view and far from putting people off it can engage them more the longer it goes on. if thing go astray thats what the modding tackle is for isn't it.
and secondly this was the point of my post above what has politics got to do with caravans one could argue nothing but that would be very wrong caravans are used by "people joe public" who lives and pleasure activities are affected by politics not just at home but abroad the minefield of legistlation comming from europe affects us all in one way or another a debate that askes the question do we want or need this is just as relevent as the price of fuel or rather the tax on it " another political question" during the topic one comment was made "with the new white paper on welfare reforms set to hammer the disabled by removing the disability care allowance exept for those in residential homes and some of the mobility aspects how long will it be before all the mobility cars have to be sent back". ok so that comment was made by me but how many on the forum use mobility cars to tow their vans so it is a political statment but with ramifications that could stop some using their vans entirely far more important than the correct nose weight don't you think.

I would suggest that trying to divorce political debate from a caravan forum when the users of the forum are affected by politics is a bit shortsighted for a long time this was a taboo subject and I am glad the new forum as a little more grown up than the old one in its outlook and may this continue as the years go by I will look forward to a bit of "I told you so" as the tories make the same mistakes as the last lot did. "notice the non partisan bit parksy very PC".
colin

 

[Lord Braykewynde]

I would suggest that trying to divorce political debate from a caravan forum when the users of the forum are affected by politics is a bit shortsighted
colin

Very true ya ol' tyke.
To be honest I couldn't see why it was locked

There was no name calling or nastiness like the past, just a bit of banter. It doesn't matter what interest in life you have, whether it's bird watching, rambling, cycling or whatever, politics are a part of it. This is the reason Chit Chat topics have a high number of posts. Without those posts PCv goes into a kind of torpor.
I don't accept that 'newbies' might be put off the forum. If they are here for information they would look under the appropriate topic/thread which is explained by the sub-headings. If, for example, I was new and was offended by what I saw in Chit Chat I simply wouldn't look in there. To my mind there isn't anything to be offended about but I do accept that some people are 'holier than thou' and butter wouldn't melt in their mouths (we all know at least one) but it's these people whose inquisitiveness keeps them looking and then, just as we all know, they will find something that displeases them and these people aren't happy unless they are complaining.

 

[OmOnWeelz]

'sense of humour'
I never really expected that peoples rights could become an issue here or really be removed because we're interested in caravanning, obviously 'tongue in cheek' comment is also taboo

Some good points made there 'Colin-Yorkshire'.
Ros, from the bottom of the PC forum learning curve

ps. I'm new here and I've not been put off by anything. We were sent an email because of a link on a post re a newspaper petition. I can't see what was wrong with that as we can't force anyone to follow our views or the link or force anyone to sign the petition, but the post was removed

 

[JonnyG]

As you know, being one of the more level headed and non confrontational users of this forum

One has to understand that good moderating comes from not bashing heads after the fact, but by trying to prevent the situation arising in the first place.
Either way, it is a difficult thing to judge at times. So OK a thread might not be too heated but if the moderators feel its very close to becoming heated,then maybe pulling it earlier rather than later saves a lot a grieve,even though we don't realise it,ever.

 

[DerektheSecond]

Hmmm

Hmmm????

That's not much of a clue. Hmmmm it a bit more and I'll name that tune in five.

When a child is born, Johny Mathis

now whats the prize?

 

[Parksy]

Thanks Johnny G, your comments are accurate.
Nobody is trying to stop forum members from ever mentioning politics but by the same token there are as many different viewpoints as there are members of the forum.
I locked the topic because it had begun to move from a fairly good natured general discussion.
We don't do party political broadcasts here.
I removed the OmOnWheels post containing the link and I would have expected my explanation for the removal which I gave in my email would have been sufficient.
If the use of this forum is such a steep learning curve then I suggest that a browse through the forum terms & conditions from the red text link at the foot of the forum page might be informative.
The locking of the topic was not due to any individual post or because of any abuse, it was simply because the discussion had begun to become entrenched and above all to stray well outside the remit of this caravan forum.

 

[DerektheSecond]

Thanks Johnny G, your comments are accurate.
Nobody is trying to stop forum members from ever mentioning politics but by the same token there are as many different viewpoints as there are members of the forum.
I locked the topic because it had begun to move from a fairly good natured general discussion.
We don't do party political broadcasts here.
I removed the OmOnWheels post containing the link and I would have expected my explanation for the removal which I gave in my email would have been sufficient.
If the use of this forum is such a steep learning curve then I suggest that a browse through the forum terms & conditions from the red text link at the foot of the forum page might be informative.
The locking of the topic was not due to any individual post or because of any abuse, it was simply because the discussion had begun to become entrenched and above all to stray well outside the remit of this caravan forum.

What no prize?

 

[Lord Braykewynde]

Ros, from the bottom of the PC forum learning curve

Don't expect miracles overnight. It took JonnyG 5 years to learn as you can see from his post ... heh! heh! heh!

 

[OmOnWeelz]

Sorry Parksy Mod.
Chris got the email I just got the message that a post had been removed.
I've read the forum terms and conditions and etiquette sections and I've just re-read them, I still don't see how they cover the subject locking and removal. Reading the rules and comparing with the actions, personal interpretation is what forum users have to live with it seems as they are very 'wooly'.
Must be a difficult job for you and Damian and good luck with it. But It's no wonder that so few post on the forum. I think I'll go back to my knitting and plotting for running a coup d'etat ousting of our parish council by our local caravan users stalinist group

Ros

 

[Parksy]

Sorry Parksy Mod.
Chris got the email I just got the message that a post had been removed.
I've read the forum terms and conditions and etiquette sections and I've just re-read them, I still don't see how they cover the subject locking and removal. Reading the rules and comparing with the actions, personal interpretation is what forum users have to live with it seems as they are very 'wooly'.
Must be a difficult job for you and Damian and good luck with it. But It's no wonder that so few post on the forum. I think I'll go back to my knitting and plotting for running a coup d'etat ousting of our parish council by our local caravan users stalinist group

Ros

That's the problem when two forum users share the same identity.There's no method of ensuring that an emailed message reaches the person who the information is for.
The T&C's which apply in the case of the removal of the post containing the link are as follows. I've underlined the parts which apply:

3. Prohibited use
You agree not to use the Website:

• to create a database (electronic or otherwise) that includes material downloaded or otherwise obtained from the Website except where expressly permitted on the Website;
• to disseminate advertisements on the Website or use the Website for any other commercial purposes (which would include using the Website to promote or encourage the sale of your goods/services);
• to place links on the Website where those links take users to unlawful material or material that contravenes these Terms and Conditions;
• to transmit or re-circulate any material obtained from the Website to any third party except where expressly permitted on the Website;
• in such a way so as to remove the copyright or trade mark notice(s) from any copies of any material made in accordance with these Terms and Conditions;
• to disseminate any unsolicited or unauthorised advertising, promotional materials, "junk mail," "spam," "chain letters," "pyramid schemes," or any other form of solicitation;
• to disseminate any material that contains software viruses or any other computer code, files or programs designed to interrupt, damage, destroy or limit the functionality of any computer software or hardware or telecommunications equipment;
• to disseminate any material which is or may infringe the rights (including intellectual property rights) of any third party or be unlawful, threatening, defamatory, obscene, indecent, offensive, pornographic, abusive, liable to incite racial hatred, discriminatory, menacing, scandalous, inflammatory, blasphemous, in breach of confidence, in breach of privacy, which may cause annoyance or inconvenience or may restrict or inhibit the use of the Website by any person or which constitutes or encourages conduct that may be considered a criminal offence or give rise to civil liability in any country in the world;
• to disseminate any material which compromises the privacy or security of anyone other than yourself;
• to disseminate any material which does or may bring Haymarket or any of its brands or subsidiaries into dispute or in any way damage their reputation;
• to disseminate any material where use of the material by Haymarket, or any third party licensed or permitted by Haymarket, will give rise to any third party claims; or
• to post link(s) that take users to material that contravenes any of the above restrictions.

4.1. The pages of the Website where you are capable of posting content are provided for your private, non-commercial exchange of lawful, relevant, fair and appropriate information, opinions and comment. Use of the Website that is inconsistent with those stated purposes is strictly prohibited. By submitting any content to the Website, you:

4.2 Haymarket reserves the right (but not the obligation) at its sole discretion to refuse, review edit, move or remove any content that is posted to, or available on, the Website without the need to give any reasons for doing so. However, Haymarket will not review the materials that you or anyone else makes to the Website and therefore, unless we are specifically notified of the nature of any item of content, you cannot assume that Haymarket is aware of it. If you object to the publication of any material placed on the Website please contact Haymarket using the contact details shown on the “contact us” section of the Website and we will take whatever action we deem appropriate.

6.1.5. your website does not contain content that is distasteful, offensive or controversial, that infringes any intellectual property rights or other rights of any other person or otherwise does not comply with all applicable laws and regulations.

I hope that this has helped you to understand why the post was removed. I explained earlier why the topic was subsequently locked.
Best of luck with the caravan users Stalinist group when the parish council becomes a workers collective.

 

[OmOnWeelz]

I've read the forum terms and conditions and etiquette sections and I've just re-read them, I still don't see how they cover the subject locking and removal.

Hmmmm, I can see where Damian is coming from. Was there some point posting it all when I've read them numerous times. I got my girlfriend to read them and the threads, she writes legal 'compliance' jargon for multinationals. 'wooly' is how she described the forum rules when compared to the topics

But do enjoy youself Parksy Mod
Back to the plotting and 'knit one pearl one'
Ros

 

[Damian]

Quote "Hmmmm, I can see where Damian is coming from"

Sorry but please do not interpret that posting as being in conflict with what Parksy has done by locking the topic, he just beat me to it.
It has long been the case that certain topics degenerate from the main topic into a free for all which usually ends up in a forum brawl.
The most likely topics are Politics, Religion, Minority groups and such like.
It has in the past, long term and recent, that the forum has been abandoned by those who do not wish to see or read such items and those who feel intimidated by what appears to be a small number of posters who seem to dominate and spoil the general feel of the forum.
It has taken over 4 years to bring the forum into a more welcoming place, mainly due to lack of editing software available to the Moderators, but that has changed, and as has been said by myself and others, this is a predominantly CARAVAN forum.
It is NOT a political platform, it is NOT a religious platform or any other kind of platform for posting topics which are deemed to be controversial or inflammatory.
Having tried to let the said topic run and see what it went like, it was taken off topic yet again and was heading into troubled waters, that is why it was locked.

If people want to discuss Politics and the other topics which seem to draw out very entrenched views, then please find another forum which caters for that kind of discussion, but it certainly will not be on this one.

 

[colin-yorkshire1]

If people want to discuss Politics and the other topics which seem to draw out very entrenched views, then please find another forum which caters for that kind of discussion, but it certainly will not be on this one.

"Hmmmmm" sounds a bit like a scene from the us drama law and order you know the "soft cop hard cop bit".
sorry Damian mate but I think you are wong to play the hard cop bit especialy in this context yes it is a caravan forum and all the sections of it cater for this exept one "chit chat" I quote" For non-caravan issues: jokes, trivia, gossip." I am not suggesting for one minute that there should be free for all section within the forum but it is there for topics not covered anywhere else on the forum.
wether you like it or not politics DO effect caravans they are used by "people joe public" who lives and pleasure activities are affected by politics not just at home but abroad the minefield of legistlation comming from europe affects us all just as much as domestic ones do you know this probably better than most of us being in the caravan industry and posting on such matters regulary.
trying to divorce it completely is a mistake I will make a bet that when the effects of the government cuts are fully felt in the spring and peoples spending power reduces this will effect all our abilities to use our vans and there will be a flood of post on the subject.just wait and see.

regarding apposing views turning into argument ok I agree it sometimes did happen but this is according to parksy is no longer a big problem with your new modding tools. everyone as different outlook on life and beliefs unless we talk about our differences we will never find common ground to stand on.
my biggest expponant over the years was probaly Euro/peter sadly no longer with us, I probably disagreed with allmost every word he ever wrote, being on completely different sides of the social fence so to speak. however dispite being on different planets sometimes I allways respected his point of view because he geuinly believed them and was not afraid to speak his mind. the world and more over this forum is a poorer place without him or anyone else that would dare to put a foot on the line sometimes.

colin

.

 

[Parksy]

regarding apposing views turning into argument ok I agree it sometimes did happen but this is according to parksy is no longer a big problem with your new modding tools..............

Well I obviously got that wrong then didn't I?
It would no longer have been a problem if decisions that had been taken were accepted and things moved on but there always has to be this great debate with every member involved posting their personal opinion of moderators and telling us where we've been getting it all wrong for all this time.
I locked the topic in question to try to prevent it from descending into the usual childishness but that's turned out to be a waste of time because the same old points scoring has simply transferred itself to this topic.
It doesn't seem to matter how many explanations of the rules or reasons why are posted by moderators the same old disruption and dissent happens every time.
It's all a bit unnecessary and time consuming so I think that it's probably better if no more explanations are forthcoming, it's so much easier to just delete the entire argument and to have done with it which is what I'll do from now on.

 

[OmOnWeelz]

Parksy.
Practical Caravan describe the Practical Caravan 'mission' thus -
"Inform, inspire and entertain the UK's caravanners"

Ros nor I could see no problem with the points raise in the locked topic, obviously some users were 'inspired' and 'informed' and obviousley all were entertained or no one would have been posting. A difference of views and all out rudeness to others is a different matter.
The chit chat section of the forum is probably the best section the forum has re Practical Caravans "MISSION" statement. You should not take criticism as being personal or against you or Damian. The magazine management and editorial staff who I assume you are answerable to are the ones that may be giving you misleading guidance re how you police the forum.
The magazine has published a mission statement and is then going against its own idea of what its purpose is. Practical caravan has established a strong web presence with this Forum and Facebook and Twitter feeds, with open public scrutiny in all three mediums you are going to attract all points of views and subjects that affect caravan users.
Providing foul language or rudeness is not involved the threads are accomplishing the PC mission. If you stop the informative, entertaining and inspiring posts by locking or removing them what is the point of Practiacal Caravan's mission

Chris

 

[Parksy]

Parksy.
Practical Caravan describe the Practical Caravan 'mission' thus -
"Inform, inspire and entertain the UK's caravanners"

Ros nor I could see no problem with the points raise in the locked topic.................
.............Chris

I must try to remember to consult you in future then seeing as how you 'both' are experts on forum matters.
You need to sort out who you are, either Ros or Chris.
Please choose separate forum usernames because you appear to be separate ( but strangely familiar) people arguing under one name.