Are new Caravans overpriced?

[Lutz]

If caravan manufacturers were to offer such extensive factory fitted options, it certainly would further complicate the actual production side of things. Based on their apparent inability to fit the present "standard" items correctly every time, giving them special order options would I am sure be an absolute nightmare for customers who would receive incorrect products, more items that are not properly installed, and reliability problems.

I know I am hyper critical about the UK caravanning industries record on reliability. but they only have themselves to blame. for poor fit and finish of the caravan they produce. And they are responsible for the very poor way they treat owners who do suffer, not only financially, but emotionally when the products they design and assemble let users down in the few short precious days of holiday time they are entitled to.

There is really no reason for a nightmare situation being created as you fear. When the order is placed the system puts together a bill of material against each order and the parts required are delivered to the production line in build sequence so that the line operator doesn't have much of a chance of grabbing and fitting the wrong component.

 

[Jcloughie]

There is really no reason for a nightmare situation being created as you fear. When the order is placed the system puts together a bill of material against each order and the parts required are delivered to the production line in build sequence so that the line operator doesn't have much of a chance of grabbing and fitting the wrong component.

That system fails due to the extensive use of the abacus and slate.

John

 

[ProfJohnL]

There is really no reason for a nightmare situation being created as you fear. When the order is placed the system puts together a bill of material against each order and the parts required are delivered to the production line in build sequence so that the line operator doesn't have much of a chance of grabbing and fitting the wrong component.

I'm sorry Lutz, whilst I agree it should be relatively easy, and the car industry does manage it, but the reality is the UK caravan industry does not follow or adopt processes that could even conceivably manage to identify any particular chassis passing through production to unique from a customer with a unique mix of customer options.

Admittedly it's probably 25 years since I saw caravan production lines in action in person but between 1980 and 2000 I did see a mixture of both caravan and motorhome production lines as an OEM supplier.

I've seen furniture assembled with missed or extra staples and screws,
I've seen parts that got damaged by the fitters removed and thrown onto the shop floor, and fitters pinching parts from other more completed caravans so they can claim they have met their production quota. Not a care for the integrity or quality of the product.

In terms of appliances, product damaged by their forklift trucks whilst in pre assembly storage, product bent to get into poorly designed spaces, wrong stock brought to the production lines attempted to be fitted then literally ripped out damaging them, and then being sent back to the supplier as "Did not Work" Boxed product being returned as faulty where the product has not been removed from the box, but the box has had a hole punched in to just remove the fittings kits.

I attended one manufacture because they insisted our product was at fault, and it turned out they were trying to force a keywayed connector in the wrong way round.

Since then from having seen several video's about different manufacturers, there has been little change to working practices, and facilities illustrated in those video's.

I have zero confidence the UK caravan industry has necessary fine control over its processes and procedures to enable it to safely manage a wide range manufactures options on models of caravan.

I would love to be proved wrong!

 

[Jcloughie]

I'm sorry Lutz, whilst I agree it should be relatively easy, and the car industry does manage it, but the reality is the UK caravan industry does not follow or adopt processes that could even conceivably manage to identify any particular chassis passing through production to unique from a customer with a unique mix of customer options.

Admittedly it's probably 25 years since I saw caravan production lines in action in person but between 1980 and 2000 I did see a mixture of both caravan and motorhome production lines as an OEM supplier.

I've seen furniture assembled with missed or extra staples and screws,
I've seen parts that got damaged by the fitters removed and thrown onto the shop floor, and fitters pinching parts from other more completed caravans so they can claim they have met their production quota. Not a care for the integrity or quality of the product.

In terms of appliances, product damaged by their forklift trucks whilst in pre assembly storage, product bent to get into poorly designed spaces, wrong stock brought to the production lines attempted to be fitted then literally ripped out damaging them, and then being sent back to the supplier as "Did not Work" Boxed product being returned as faulty where the product has not been removed from the box, but the box has had a hole punched in to just remove the fittings kits.

I attended one manufacture because they insisted our product was at fault, and it turned out they were trying to force a keywayed connector in the wrong way round.

Since then from having seen several video's about different manufacturers, there has been little change to working practices, and facilities illustrated in those video's.

I have zero confidence the UK caravan industry has necessary fine control over its processes and procedures to enable it to safely manage a wide range manufactures options on models of caravan.

I would love to be proved wrong!

You are no doubt correct, which is also why I made that tongue in cheek comment in #27.

But I believe in optimism, and the ability to move forward. My own industry, construction, is unrecognisable from 20 years ago. (Except for domestic maintenance which is riddled with cowboys). Partly, this is because customers are not prepared to accept the rubbish that was being turned out. 40 years ago, when I worked in Germany, they were, in many respects, worse than us.

John

 

[ProfJohnL]

You are no doubt correct, which is also why I made that tongue in cheek comment in #27.

But I believe in optimism, and the ability to move forward. My own industry, construction, is unrecognisable from 20 years ago. (Except for domestic maintenance which is riddled with cowboys). Partly, this is because customers are not prepared to accept the rubbish that was being turned out. 40 years ago, when I worked in Germany, they were, in many respects, worse than us.

John

The building industry has seen a rapid increase in the numbers of regulations they have to prove they abide by, and that and several high profile cases where pre-existing regulations had be flouted or the regulations themselves were not good enough (Grenfell Tower) Health and Safety have all impacted the way the industry has operated.

From 1990 through to 2018 I have been a governor at two schools, and have been involved with several expansion plans at both. Over that time the planning process and statutory building requirements have changed significantly.

Unfortunately very little regulation has been applied to the construction of habitation part of caravans, so the manufacturers have tried to reserve their profit margins by avoiding the difficult decisions to train and incentivise their work forces to look for quality rather than quantity.

I too live in hopes they will see the benefits of working towards doing it right first time, as a real cost saving exercise, compared to the costs of servicing a warranty scheme, and also derive the benefit of improved customer experience and retention.

 

[Dustydog]

Like most Industries Regulations about construction, materials , methodology have improved considerably over the last 20 years. Local Authorities Building Regs Inspectors have a mandatory obligation to check the adequacy of Foundations. I wonder went wrong in the following story?

Newbuild horror as 36 homes to be destroyed and rebuilt by developer

Barratt David Wilson Homes Cambridgeshire said the homes on the Darwin Green site were found to have not met its 'usual high standards' following an inspection.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Apart from the NCC which is a waste of time in my book, caravans are still subject to LPG regulations and of course the current Electricity regs.
Following 7 weeks of building works at home, our electricians spent a day resting and certifying every socket RCD MCB. They’re measuring equipment test for example the milliseconds and current need to trip a breaker. This was done in five successions and recorded. The test results form part of the Part P and part 11certificate of Compliance.

With caravan construction what “independent “ authority checks the construction, electrical and gas systems? I ask tic😉

 

[otherclive]

Like most Industries Regulations about construction, materials , methodology have improved considerably over the last 20 years. Local Authorities Building Regs Inspectors have a mandatory obligation to check the adequacy of Foundations. I wonder went wrong in the following story?

Newbuild horror as 36 homes to be destroyed and rebuilt by developer

Barratt David Wilson Homes Cambridgeshire said the homes on the Darwin Green site were found to have not met its 'usual high standards' following an inspection.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Apart from the NCC which is a waste of time in my book, caravans are still subject to LPG regulations and of course the current Electricity regs.
Following 7 weeks of building works at home, our electricians spent a day resting and certifying every socket RCD MCB. They’re measuring equipment test for example the milliseconds and current need to trip a breaker. This was done in five successions and recorded. The test results form part of the Part P and part 11certificate of Compliance.

With caravan construction what “independent “ authority checks the construction, electrical and gas systems? I ask tic😉

The construction industry may (or may not) now work to better regulations. But their design leaves much to be desired. My grandson moves into a new build next month. It has a narrow path traversing the front of the house (mews) and adjacent properties. Mainly for Postman access. Immediately after this path are his two parking bays. But there’s no thought been given to how to charge the cars. The development company say you can’t run cables over the path, but won’t commit to if he can cut a small trench with a removable cover.

The worst design defect relates to wheelie bins. Covenants ban the storage of bin on the front apart from collection days. The rear garden is landscaped in two levels. So the bins can store on the lowers level adjacent to the rear gate. But taking them out via the rear access necessitates hauling them up 10 steps and out onto the front. That’s three bins having to be hauled out.

I can only think that the development was designed by an ex caravan designer . 😂

 

[ProfJohnL]

Like most Industries Regulations about construction, materials , methodology have improved considerably over the last 20 years. Local Authorities Building Regs Inspectors have a mandatory obligation to check the adequacy of Foundations. I wonder went wrong in the following story?

Newbuild horror as 36 homes to be destroyed and rebuilt by developer

Barratt David Wilson Homes Cambridgeshire said the homes on the Darwin Green site were found to have not met its 'usual high standards' following an inspection.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Apart from the NCC which is a waste of time in my book, caravans are still subject to LPG regulations and of course the current Electricity regs.
Following 7 weeks of building works at home, our electricians spent a day resting and certifying every socket RCD MCB. They’re measuring equipment test for example the milliseconds and current need to trip a breaker. This was done in five successions and recorded. The test results form part of the Part P and part 11certificate of Compliance.

With caravan construction what “independent “ authority checks the construction, electrical and gas systems? I ask tic😉

I am also rather cynical about the role of the NCC in caravan construction. The NCC does have a technical committee who from time to time produce technical recommendations regarding regulated procedures (i.e gas and electrical installations) but the advice is essentially a summary of the regulations chosen to match the needs of caravan producers - However its important to understand the Committee is populated by members of the caravan industry.

However they don't offer technical advice about the methods of caravan body construction, That is a commercial process defined by each manufacturer.

 

[Jcloughie]

The construction industry may (or may not) now work to better regulations. But their design leaves much to be desired. My grandson moves into a new build next month. It has a narrow path traversing the front of the house (mews) and adjacent properties. Mainly for Postman access. Immediately after this path are his two parking bays. But there’s no thought been given to how to charge the cars. The development company say you can’t run cables over the path, but won’t commit to if he can cut a small trench with a removable cover.

The worst design defect relates to wheelie bins. Covenants ban the storage of bin on the front apart from collection days. The rear garden is landscaped in two levels. So the bins can store on the lowers level adjacent to the rear gate. But taking them out via the rear access necessitates hauling them up 10 steps and out onto the front. That’s three bins having to be hauled out.

I can only think that the development was designed by an ex caravan designer . 😂

That is mostly about planning. Building control regs have greatly improved over time and are regulated in such a way as they can be regularly updated without the need to go back to parliament.

They do need some training in order to interpret them.

Decent regs have been in place for a long time since the move from by-laws in 1966 (I think).

But nevertheless I still think that the greatest improvement in standards have been driven by customers becoming far more savy and less willing to accept anything sub standard. Yet with caravans, sadly that does not seem to be the case.

Also, in the 60’s and 70’s housing market. Developers knew they could sell anything. The availability of sufficient skilled labour coupled with a very strong demand. Led to very poor build quality which we still suffer from today. But perhaps it served one purpose in rebuilding housing stocks.

John

 

[Buckman]

Apart from the NCC which is a waste of time in my book, caravans are still subject to LPG regulations and of course the current Electricity regs.

I thought that the regulations did not apply to caravans, but ony used as a guideline?

 

[ProfJohnL]

I thought that the regulations did not apply to caravans, but ony used as a guideline?

The gas and electrical regulations (of which there are several types) stand and do apply to caravans, but there are certain clauses within the the gas regulations that makes" touring caravans and self propelled motor homes" and other defined special cases where certain specific aspects of the regulations may not apply, but despite some of these let offs, there are other documents, regulations and codes of practice that still do apply virtually rendering the "special case let offs" irrelevant.

For example whilst the Gas Safety (Installation & Use) Regulations may allow the "private owner" of a "touring caravans or self propelled motor home" can undertake work on the vehicle without a recognised evidence of competence, the work still has to conform to the codes of practice for the design, methods and performance of the work and testing. Providing the vehicle is specifically for the owners private personal use.

There is no exemption if the touring caravan and self propelled motor home is owned by a business or is used for hire or rental to any other person. Technically if you rent, hire or even loan the vehicle to any one including your immediate family (inc. Spouse or children) you break the exemption, and the work must be carried out by a certified professional.

Consequently the private owners exemption has no practical value.

 

[GaryB]

Second hand caravans are also expensive, this is our old one, purchased by me in March 2018 for £18,450, now on the dealer forecourt for just under £20K @ 5 years old! Mind you, as it's been there for 12 months now I suspect that the buying public also think it's over-priced!

 

[Raywood]

There does seem to be some evidence of second hand prices dropping now but only time will tell how far.

 

[GaryB]

There does seem to be some evidence of second hand prices dropping now but only time will tell how far.

We've noticed a real slow-down in second hand sales locally (not only mine as above), but not so long ago our local dealers forecourt saw stock changing almost weekly but now the same models sit there for months on end. We also noticed that his car park is only about half as full as it used to be on weekends, maybe the bubble is now starting to leak before it bursts?

 

[GaryB]

Well, called into our dealer this afternoon to pick up some toilet fluid, Sunday, 2.00pm and it was warm, normally the perfect conditions for folk’s browsing. The only member of the public there was me….. Our previous caravan mentioned previously is still for sale and stock was bursting at the seams. Prices however remain North of eye-watering….

 

[Raywood]

Looked up nearest dealer and they still only had six used models although at one time there were none.

 

[Dustydog]

The Swift ,Bailey, Coachman new replacement cost for mine is circa £46k. A lot of money for most?

 

[otherclive]

The Swift ,Bailey, Coachman new replacement cost for mine is circa £46k. A lot of money for most?

That’s quite eye watering. Even when inflation comes down many prices will be locked in, wages may rise but it will take time before people begin to feel better off. And more will be caught by the zero increase in tax thresholds until 2028. So it will be interesting to see how the industry fares over the next few years.

 

[Buckman]

That’s quite eye watering. Even when inflation comes down many prices will be locked in, wages may rise but it will take time before people begin to feel better off. And more will be caught by the zero increase in tax thresholds until 2028. So it will be interesting to see how the industry fares over the next few years.

Our caravan is a 2018 model and it has increased in price by nearly £14k which is an increase of just under £3k a year. I think that is a lot higher than what the inflation rate was over the preceding years?

 

[Dustydog]

Our caravan is a 2018 model and it has increased in price by nearly £14k which is an increase of just under £3k a year. I think that is a lot higher than what the inflation rate was over the preceding years?

My 2009 Wyoming cost us £16800 new. Last year was offered £10,500 . Someone I know ships TAs to New Zealand .

 

[Beachball]

My 2009 Wyoming cost us £16800 new. Last year was offered £10,500 . Someone I know ships TAs to New Zealand .

Hi Dusty cannot see you selling your caravan because you have done a lot work and it looks stunning