B+E test and L plates?

[CluelessNewbies]

Hi All. I was wondering if there is some expertise in the forum that can help clarify a few points for me.

We have recently embarked on a new Car and Van. The mass of them combined is above 3500kg. My wife has a pre 97 license and has the right categories for her to pull the set up legally. I have a post 97 license and am current taking some driving tuition with a B+E due shortly. Obviously my lessons have taken me on the motor way and this made me think....

So here is the question, In theory, would their be any thing preventing me from driving the car/van combo, over 3500kg, with L plates with my wife sitting next to me??? As I clearly have a provisonal for it already. I cant see the difference between my wife sitting there, and the instructor (from a legal point of view anyway)

Is there anything i am missing here? I have searched the web, VOSA and .gov websites and im more confused than ever!

 

[WoodlandsCamper]

I cant see the difference between my wife sitting there, and the instructor (from a legal point of view anyway)
Is there anything i am missing here? I have searched the web, VOSA and .gov websites and im more confused than ever!

Are you towing a driving school box trailer on the motorway? If so, I expect it is significantly less weight than a caravan, thereby keeping the train weight to less than 3,500 kg and therefore you are driving in accordance with your licence (no L plates required).

 

[CluelessNewbies]

Thanks WC -

I suppose the real question here is that i carry a provisional B+E and my wife carries them full, therefore can she supervise me driving a rig over 3500kg with me on L plates?

 

[emmerson]

No use to you here, but my pal in Sweden had this problem and drove for years with L plates on his huge outfit, in the UK as well.

 

[CluelessNewbies]

Thanks Emerson. The way i look at it, is that i am a full license holder up to 3500kg. Above that i am provisional "learner" as a learner i can drive with L's when sitting with an experienced license holder (over 3 years driving and over 21)

So long as I am correctly insured (i.e. The insurance company know i will be towing on L's) then in theory, im fine?

Ive just emailed the DVLA to get their take on it, and also confirm the query about driving with L's on the motorway. (Clearly your not in car territory any more)

Will let you know the outcome.

 

[Gafferbill]

I suppose the real question here is that i carry a provisional B+E and my wife carries them full, therefore can she supervise me driving a rig over 3500kg with me on L plates?

My understanding is that a B license has provisional entitlement for the B+E category and that your wife as a B+E license holder, can supervise you.
However your outfit may not be insured for the purposes of training an unqualified driver

Adding Higher Categories

Your qualified instructor will teach you exactly what you need to know to be successful in the test.

 

[smiley]

Have you actually applid for a provisional license for B+E

 

[CluelessNewbies]

No

Proviiosnal B+E entitlement is already part of the my license (post 97, pre 2013)

 

[CluelessNewbies]

https://www.gov.uk/adding-higher-categories-to-your-driving-licence

 

[Raywood]

I am not sure of the answer and I would wait for the reply to your e mail. If you are a member of either of the two big clubs they have helplines who might know.

 

[ProfJohnL]

I would be wary about taking what you find on the Government information portal as being accurate. We know that several of teh sites descriptions of licence entitlements are inaccurate. Its not that they're trying to be inaccurate, its just that the underlying Act of Parliament are highly complex documents, and in an effort to simplify it to put it on the web site, Government mandarins have omitted or incorrectly quoted parts of the Acts.

Unfortunately if you are found to be in contravention of any of the Acts, a defence of "that's what the Government web site told me" is not accepted as a mitigating circumstance.

 

[Raywood]

I would accept the point about the web site not always being correct but producing the details in court would probably result in an absolute discharge at worst as it shows you have taken reasonable steps. The OP has however e mailed the department so any reply would make a charge almost impossible for the police.

 

[p3k4y]

I recently took my B+E test and the test came very close to the caravan pickup date .

If I had failed my test the plan was always to take my dad with me to get the caravan, and I would be able to drive it home with L plates on.

According to my instructor this is perfectly legal as long as the passenger has held B+E entitlement for 3 or more years (whether through having a pre 1997 licence or directly taking the B+E themselves).

 

[Dustydog]

Clueless
On your next test be careful with the hand brake.
The tester may ask you to reverse, stop and unhitched. Don't. The auto reverse mechanism on the caravan will still be in reverse mode and the caravan may roll away if you rely on the handbrake alone. Use chocks or pull forward a bit to be safe.
Good luck

 

[CluelessNewbies]

P3k4y. That exactly why I raised it. I have my test in the fifth and if for any reason I don't pass it was going to be plan B

Interestingly the DVLA have come back. I'm fine to drive with my wife supervising, although they are needing to research if it is OK for driving in the motorway! Interesting that they don't know!

 

[ProfJohnL]

I would accept the point about the web site not always being correct but producing the details in court would probably result in an absolute discharge at worst as it shows you have taken reasonable steps. The OP has however e mailed the department so any reply would make a charge almost impossible for the police.

I'm sorry Ray but I think your advice on this point is seriously flawed. Ask any school child about the reliability of using information from the WWW, and they will (or should) tell you not to accept anything at face value until you have validated it.

Ignorance of the law is never a reliable defence, nor is using flawed advice. The courts may take the inaccuracies of a government web site into account and be lenient but it's unlikely they would give an absolute discharge.

 

[Gafferbill]

Ask any school child about the reliability of using information from the WWW, and they will (or should) tell you not to accept anything at face value until you have validated it.

.....................I was the first poster to quote a government website in this thread to back up my advice to the OP that a B license was a provisional license for a B+E vehicle.
The government website I quoted does just that and based on considerable experience in transport matters I could see no glaring mistakes in the information provided.

 

[Dustydog]

I would accept the point about the web site not always being correct but producing the details in court would probably result in an absolute discharge at worst as it shows you have taken reasonable steps. The OP has however e mailed the department so any reply would make a charge almost impossible for the police.

I'm sorry Ray but I think your advice on this point is seriously flawed. Ask any school child about the reliability of using information from the WWW, and they will (or should) tell you not to accept anything at face value until you have validated it.

Ignorance of the law is never a reliable defence, nor is using flawed advice. The courts may take the inaccuracies of a government web site into account and be lenient but it's unlikely they would give an absolute discharge.

Sorry to disagree Prof but I suspect Ray is correct .
The test for the Court is the test of "reasonableness" and Duty of Care exercised.
If the Court were to admonish the Defendant for taking guidance from HMG 's website I think we'd see a riot.

 

[CluelessNewbies]

Ultimately, I don't see where else you could get the correct info from!. I suspect I can't ask the person who created to legislation

They still haven't come back on the motor way point.!

 

[ProfJohnL]

Ultimately, I don't see where else you could get the correct info from!. I suspect I can't ask the person who created to legislation

They still haven't come back on the motor way point.!

The place to go for advice is back to the actual Act of Parliament, (not the person that wrote it), The problem is the document does exist and most central libraries should be able to get it, but its a devil to find online, or you can purchase a copy from Her Majesty's Stationery Office.

Then you have to know how to read them.

The link in the sticky post about licence entitlements the company at

http://www.practicalcaravan.com/forum/towing-driving-and-safety/52393-driving-licence-entitlements-what-can-you-drive
It interprets the Act in this way:-

"Drivers who passed their car test after 1 January 1997will normally only have PROVISIONAL category B+E entitlement. To gain full B+E entitlement they will have to pass a Category B+E Practical Driving Test. Supervising drivers accompanying provisional B+E licence holders must have held a full B+E licence for at least 3 years."

It does not give details about L plate requirements.

Try this from Admiral Insurance:-

http://www.admiral.com/magazine/guides/motor/l-plates-and-p-plates-everything-you-need-to-know
On the assumption the document is accurate, then it would seem that a driver with a provisional licence for teh vehicle they are driving must be accompanied by a driver that has held the qualification for a minimum of 3 years. They must display L plates and they are not allowed to use the motorways.

I cannot vouch for the accuracy of this but at least following this advice would ensure you would be compliant.

 

[CluelessNewbies]

So here is the advice from the DVLA.

Thank you for your further email of 20 March.

I can confirm that, if you hold a full category B driving licence, you can drive on a motorway in a category B+E displaying ‘L’ plates whilst being supervised by a full licence holder, who must be at least 21 years old and have held a full category B+E licence for at least three years.

I hope this is helpful to you.

Yours sincerely

So based on this, so long as your insured, you are good to go!

 

[ProfJohnL]

Go for it!

 

[DaveA1]

Removed. My question not relevant. :silly: :silly: