Bailey production line!!!!!

[ProfAlGoogle]

Just had a look at the construction video on utube for the alu-tech manufacture. what a shame Bailey cant invest as well in there workforce as they do in there new caravans, would have been nice to have seen a well turned out work force in company overalls bearing the company logo. look after the workers and they will look after you, could this be why we see so many poorly put together caravans? No safety footwear, no eye protection. A chap using a jig saw with his hand in front of the blade!! Incorrect lifting, trip hazards all over the place, then we have a worker walking across the production line and swinging on a beam to get back on the floor.
Lack of warning signs on machinary where there is an obvious trapping risk, the list is endless, have a look and see how many you can spot.
Invest in your work force as well as in the product and perhaps then we might see an end to these unecessary niggling faults we get on our caravans.

Happy New, Allan & Gill

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hear hear!

 

[DerekBrad]

I couldn't agree more; the subject was raised after the Caravan Channel showed the Bailey factory and it's motley crew of workers. I thought at the time that it was a wasted opportunity to grab some good PR. An investment in a few tee shirts and some safety gear would have paid dividends, I'm sure. Still, they are all very proficient at counting the pennies!
Regards to all
Derek

 

[ProfAlGoogle]

Any one spot a QA Officer as the caravan made it`s way along the production line? Time to get your house in order Bailey, invest in a good working practice system, and save yourselves,and the customer, time and money.

 

[emmerson]

But why should they, when people buy new caravans in spite of knowing that they will have problems?
Bailey are not alone in this regard.

 

[ProfAlGoogle]

To increase sales, reliability, and above all reputation. All company's need to safeguard tomorrow.

 

[Lord Braykewynde]

save yourselves,and the customer, time and money.

I fail to see how wearing the same overalls, with the company logo on them, will save Bailey or us money. The cost will simply be passed to the customer and making everyone dress the same will not bolster production or improve the workmanship. The wearing of the same overalls, making everyone a clone, is simply cosmetic. After all, the workers are what they are and aren't members of the Somerset Light Infantry

 

[ProfJohnL]

This is not specifically aimed at Bailey but applies to all companies, and it is a is a fundamental aspect that applies to all world class businesses – customer focus.

Customers have every right to expect the business to do their best to deliver well designed, tested and built products, and that comes through good management.

This is not only good for customers its good for the business, as it improves product design, maximises reliability ( and thus reduces scrapage within the production environment, and warranty costs) and enhances the customers opinion of a business its win-win all round

So good quality control starts with a full and unreserved commitment by top management to the principals of quality assurance. That same commitment must be echoed throughout the organisation down to the lowest paid jobs, and its everybodyes responsibility to ensure they do their bit to enhance the operation of the company by doing their job to the best possible standard.

Quality inspection is to some extent an admission of failure, as if a product is well designed, it should only go together one way – correctly, so unless a particular inspection or test is required for any legal reason (compliance with statutory regulations) its an expensive luxury. The best products are production engineered to prevent incorrect assembly. This is Quality Assurance.

Developing working partnerships with suppliers during the design and development stages helps to get the right parts specified and supplied.

There are a number of industries that have proven the value of this approach, including the car makers. The caravan industry has a lot to learn, and should look carefully at the motor industry who have suffered he pain of implementing such processes, and are now reaping the benefits.

Consider the fact that even the most basic new car has many more moving and working parts than a caravan, and the number of faults per hundred working parts is much lower than we seem to get with caravans.

I challenge all the caravan manufacturers to move up a few gears to begin to adopt the best working practices to improve their products and serve their customers AND shareholders better.

 

[ProfAlGoogle]

Why do the armed forces,police,firemen, all wear a uniform? overalls aside your Lord, would you say that there working practices and the way they execute them are satisfactory? Take the lad with the jig saw, no PPE, eye injury, loss of sight= huge bill for Bailey

"After all, the workers are what they are and aren't members of the Somerset Light Infantry"

All workers are what you invest in them.

 

[Lord Braykewynde]

Why do the armed forces,police,firemen, all wear a uniform? overalls aside your Lord, would you say that there working practices and the way they execute them are satisfactory? Take the lad with the jig saw, no PPE, eye injury, loss of sight= huge bill for Bailey

"After all, the workers are what they are and aren't members of the Somerset Light Infantry"

All workers are what you invest in them.

I only quoted about your comment regarding uniforms because I don't profess to be an expert on H&S.
The reason police, army etc. wear a uniform is probably because they are in the public eye and also having the need to recognise each other when in a situation which their job entails. The fire service wear overalls or special protective clothing while working but when not working they have a dress uniform. This is cosmetic and adds to the cost of financing the fire service through our council taxes.
Nurses wear uniforms but no longer are hats a neccessity simply because they served no purpose and were simply cosmetic. I cannot speak for all hospital because no doubt there are still some old style matronly types out there.
On the ambulance service we wore a police style uniform until the early 90s. The uniform itself was totally unpractical and the hats were a health hazard but if caught not wearing a hat on duty, either out among the public or at the scene of an incident, we were for the high jump as I know from personal experience. Thankfully, someone with more commonsense than Chief Ambulance Officers, saw the folly of their ways. Whether it was coincidence I don't know but just after the Chief Ambulance Officers became Chief Executives and no longer treated the staff as if they were their private armies.
I still stick with my former comment of no matter what Bailey supply their staff with, it will not save us money because simply their workers cannot become more skilfull through dressing them in a uniform and any costs will be passed onto us, the customer.

 

[emmerson]

But cookieones, Bailey can sell every van they make, because people will insist on buying them, poor quality as they allegedly are, so why should the company go to the expense and bother of changing? If no-one bought the vans, then Bailey ( and others) would have to improve.
As long as the buyers buy crap, manufactureres will produce crap.

QED.

 

[Parksy]

Why do the armed forces,police,firemen, all wear a uniform? overalls aside your Lord, would you say that there working practices and the way they execute them are satisfactory? Take the lad with the jig saw, no PPE, eye injury, loss of sight= huge bill for Bailey

"After all, the workers are what they are and aren't members of the Somerset Light Infantry"

All workers are what you invest in them.

Neither the armed forces, police or firefighters are temporary workers who work on an ad hoc basis for an employment agency rather than for the manufacturer.
It's my belief that most if not all caravan manufacturers use unskilled temporary agency workers to cope with periods of high sales volume and these can simply be laid off without notice when demand falls.
Why would manufacturers add to their costs by kitting out temps in overalls or T shirts with company logos?
All workers including temps would have been issued with safety equipment such as eye protection ,anti dust masks, gloves etc but the workers don't always wear the safety gear if they find it uncomfortable or awkward. If a worker had an eye injury the first questions asked would be to determine if this person had been issued with safety equipment and instructed in it's use. If he hadn't bothered with his PPE then he wouldn't have much of a claim.
Motor vehicle manufacturers have traditionally paid high wages so nobody wants to leave but most caravan manufacturers are based in rural areas where wages are much lower so an employee might not have as much loyalty to the employer as say, a car assembly worker who enjoys above average wages. The skillsets for many of the assembly operations are not over demanding from what I've seen so temps are often the chosen option to supplement core teams of higher skilled permanent employees.

 

[OmOnWeelz]

Good workers are ones that know what they are doing and can self assess the quality of their workmanship. Uniforms have nothing to do with quality of work and so called health and safety is a hinderance to many workers and employers and has little relevance to very many well trained staff and work practices. I doubt that anyone can find me a skilled worker who hasn't cut towards a hand at times. There's just a difference between knowing when you can do it with relative or calculated safety and when it's down right dangerous or stupid.
I would be more concerned about how the Bailey was being built and the equipment used. Very poor by many modern day standards, but that doesn't mean that the workers are not doing a good job with what they are working with. What appears to be open bottles of adhesive randomly spread does not inspire confidence to start with.

 

[Clive-Cardiff]

Neither the armed forces, police or firefighters are temporary workers who work on an ad hoc basis for an employment agency rather than for the manufacturer.
It's my belief that most if not all caravan manufacturers use unskilled temporary agency workers to cope with periods of high sales volume and these can simply be laid off without notice when demand falls.
Why would manufacturers add to their costs by kitting out temps in overalls or T shirts with company logos?
All workers including temps would have been issued with safety equipment such as eye protection ,anti dust masks, gloves etc but the workers don't always wear the safety gear if they find it uncomfortable or awkward. If a worker had an eye injury the first questions asked would be to determine if this person had been issued with safety equipment and instructed in it's use. If he hadn't bothered with his PPE then he wouldn't have much of a claim.
Motor vehicle manufacturers have traditionally paid high wages so nobody wants to leave but most caravan manufacturers are based in rural areas where wages are much lower so an employee might not have as much loyalty to the employer as say, a car assembly worker who enjoys above average wages. The skillsets for many of the assembly operations are not over demanding from what I've seen so temps are often the chosen option to supplement core teams of higher skilled permanent employees.

Not entirely good enough nowadays, the second Health and Safety question would be, what have you the employer done to ensure that the PPE is used?
The employer has to make the use of PPE mandatory and has to show that they check on the use of the equipment.

 

[Parksy]

I'm not altogether convinced that all manufacturers check the caravans that they produce let alone the workers PPE.
We still see too many posts on forums about faults on new caravans

There's still a sort of 'cottage industry' mentality about the UK caravan industry which will have to change if caravan sales are to buck the trend and continue to survive and to grow.

 

[ProfJohnL]

It is not uncommon for an organisation to provide a corporate Tee-shirt or overalls even for temporary workers. And regardless of their employment status all workers must have adequate PPE.

Organisations are effectively duty bound under HSE guidelines to ensure that all workers have adequate PPE and that they use it. Consequently most organisations make it a serious disciplinary matter if PPE is not used or if it is abused.

Training, disciplinary and incident records will be scrutinised by HSE in the event of an incident to see if the affected worker(s) were given the necessary access and training in the dangers of the work activity and the necessary PPE and other precautions that should be used.

 

[mcghee]

most of the factory tours you see the production line operatives tend to have company clothing and look pretty presentable. when i first watched the bailey factory tours i did laugh a bit at the appearance of the staff. not just the way they were dressed but even their general approach. they kind of look like a bunch of misfits, they way had tools and other random items lying around.

that said. if they can do the job, is it really that important?

i used to have a guy working with me who was heavily tattooed, pierced, with a ponytail and style and attitude all of his own. most jobs i took him to the clients first reaction was one of uncertainty, to say the very least. but the fact is he was one of the best stonemasons i have ever had the pleasure to work with, and that's the important bit.

from a health and safety point of view, these workers know their jobs inside out, they do the same job a dozen times every day of the week. they know where to reach for tools without even looking it's so well rehearsed. i really wouldn't want the caravan industry to go down the same route as the construction has with health and safety, because if it does you next bailey will cost you £25000.

 

[xtrailman]

Its all about public image.

If Bailey are perceived to be a company that employs riff raf, that don't care about the product they are making, or there customers.
Then that image is damaged, the brand name is damaged.

As for selling every caravan they can make, if thats the case why can i go out today and buy a caravan "off the shelve"?

Remember the reputation BL workers gained, the worst car i have ever owned was a METRO, complete pile of rubbish from day one.
The companies image was so low in the eyes of the public, that the company went belly up.

 

[ProfAlGoogle]

Temps or otherwise standards have to be met and HS observed, the latter being law, Bailey or any other company have a duty of care for there workforce and vice versa. Take the lad swinging on the beam, why? because he could not be bothered to take the appropriate & safe route, so are we then to assume that he could not be bothered with putting that last screw in, or enough sealant on a joint? I`m not saying they are bad workers, but when you look at that video they are certainly not the best, or there methods of working. I took delivery of a brand new Arizona back in 2007, with numerous problems, the icing on the cake came when it went in for it`s 1st service, to be told it had damp in the rear of the van. When I asked why a van at hardly 12 months old should be suffering from damp, I was quoted "lack of sealant" could it have been our lad swinging on the beam.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello Ray,

Its perfectly true that BL went belly up, but I think it was not just its image, but the products were pretty dire even for the times they were working in.

There were several reasons for both the product and the image issues, not least of which was the management, politicians and unions who failed to recognise the importance of the customer, and who basically cut their own throats.

The caravan industry is not likely to have the same political interference in its management, but it really does need to start taking end users even more seriously.

 

[Lord Braykewynde]

There were several reasons for both the product and the image issues, not least of which was the management, politicians and unions who failed to recognise the importance of the customer, and who basically cut their own throats.

Spot on.

In defence of the manufactuers a lot of the problems stem from caravan fittings such as plumbing, heating etc. and most, if any, aren't made in this country.
Interestingly I notice that cookie said he had damp in his 12 month old Bailey in 2008 yet now has another Bailey

If that is correct Bailey must be doing something right to his satisfaction.
I found water pouring in through the roof of my 4 year old Abbey, sold it and had no intention of getting another hence the reason I now have a Bailey.
During this freezing weather, then the thaw with the high humidity I read a post on here about someones van and condensation. I decided to put the heater on in the van for a short while totally expecting the same with the damp air. When I entered the van I put the heating on but on finding no damp or condensation, even on the aluminium window frames I was pleasantly surprised and turned the heating off.
I'm not saying all is well with the caravan industry because it isn't and our Abbey, when new in 2004, had numerous faults like water pouring out of a faulty shower tap, cooker not lighting plus others but I do feel that to blame them for not wearing a uniform with the corporate logo on it is taking it a bit too far. The clothes dost not maketh the man.
My present Bailey is now waiting to have it's third front window fitted. Does this mean that Bailey are to blame when the windows are made in Belgium and Polyplastics cannot get it right?
My mobile service engineer has recently fitted the fifth window to one of his customers Swift vans. This problem isn't particular to British vans either.

 

[Parksy]

Its all about public image.

If Bailey are perceived to be a company that employs riff raf, that don't care about the product they are making, or there customers.
Then that image is damaged, the brand name is damaged.

..............

It's harsh and unfair to brand temporary workers as 'riff raff' because most of them try to do a good job in the hope of more permanent employment.
Nobody is going to turn up for work in a factory where solvents, glue and sealants are all around in their Sunday best or in fact any half decent clothing if no overalls are provided.
I went on a factory tour at Swift Group where the workforce didn't wear any company clothing but I still bought Abbey caravans (we're on our second) and I've been very happy with what I've bought. The design and management team who answered questions from the visiting caravan owners seemed dedicated to raising standards and they admitted to past mistakes during our question and answer session.
Partly as a result of feedback from customers Swift incorporated several improvements into future designs and there's no reason to suggest that Bailey wouldn't have done something similar.
We see many 'horror stories' about new caravans from all manufacturers on caravan forums so there is still a lot of room for improvement at the construction stage but personally instead of paying indirectly for staff uniforms through price rises in new caravans of any make I'd much rather see a total revamp of after sales service from dealerships to bring the level of service up to acceptable standards.

 

[xtrailman]

There were several reasons for both the product and the image issues, not least of which was the management, politicians and unions who failed to recognise the importance of the customer, and who basically cut their own throats.

Spot on.

In defence of the manufactuers a lot of the problems stem from caravan fittings such as plumbing, heating etc. and most, if any, aren't made in this country.
Interestingly I notice that cookie said he had damp in his 12 month old Bailey in 2008 yet now has another Bailey

If that is correct Bailey must be doing something right to his satisfaction.
I found water pouring in through the roof of my 4 year old Abbey, sold it and had no intention of getting another hence the reason I now have a Bailey.
During this freezing weather, then the thaw with the high humidity I read a post on here about someones van and condensation. I decided to put the heater on in the van for a short while totally expecting the same with the damp air. When I entered the van I put the heating on but on finding no damp or condensation, even on the aluminium window frames I was pleasantly surprised and turned the heating off.
I'm not saying all is well with the caravan industry because it isn't and our Abbey, when new in 2004, had numerous faults like water pouring out of a faulty shower tap, cooker not lighting plus others but I do feel that to blame them for not wearing a uniform with the corporate logo on it is taking it a bit too far. The clothes dost not maketh the man.
My present Bailey is now waiting to have it's third front window fitted. Does this mean that Bailey are to blame when the windows are made in Belgium and Polyplastics cannot get it right?
My mobile service engineer has recently fitted the fifth window to one of his customers Swift vans. This problem isn't particular to British vans either.

Of cause Bailey are to blame.
They alone decide who gets the contract to supply.
Bailey are responsible for the specification, no one else.
Bailey have gone for the cheapest window, not the best.
Just the same as BL with that pile of junk they had the cheek to pass of as a car.
The day i collected it the engine developed a leak, but with your thought process i suppose you blame the engine supplier?.
So who is to blame for the cars paint finnish, the paint supplier?
For the sized rear wiper, the wiper motor maker?

BL made the car ,chose the components to fit in it, and put the bits together to pass it of as a car.

Exactly the same as Bailey.

Which is why your on window no3

 

[Mike_S]

I think Bailey is getting an unfair amount of stick here. I'm sure if the Caravan Channel showed film of other volume producers we would see very similar practices. My present van is an 18month old Senator S6 California with no problems to date. Before that we had a Swift Charisma 235 from new for 7 years and no problems and before that, again from new, a Bailey which we had for 18 (yes eighteen) years which did need a bit of work doing on it - after hitting a crash barrier in France! In fact the first van I ever went caravanning in as a child was a Bailey and that was it the 1950's and, believe me, caravanning and Baileys have changed a lot since then!
Mike

 

[Lord Braykewynde]

Of cause Bailey are to blame.
They alone decide who gets the contract to supply.
Bailey are responsible for the specification, no one else.
Bailey have gone for the cheapest window, not the best.
Just the same as BL with that pile of junk they had the cheek to pass of as a car.
The day i collected it the engine developed a leak, but with your thought process i suppose you blame the engine supplier?.
So who is to blame for the cars paint finnish, the paint supplier?
For the sized rear wiper, the wiper motor maker?

BL made the car ,chose the components to fit in it, and put the bits together to pass it of as a car.

Exactly the same as Bailey.

Which is why your on window no3

Why do you keep harping on about something that happened 30 years ago back in the days of Derek Robinson? The Prof answered the comments about BL admirably and if it wasn't for crap management, closed shop working with communist union leaders maybe BL would still be around today.
Back then the UK was a main manufacturing country and most of the car components were sourced in this country. Does this still apply today? No, it doesn't. At the time you're talking about things were starting to change. Lucas were no longer manufacturing a lot of parts in this country due to the industrial unrest. Their headlight units were now being manufactured in Canada and starter motors, dynamos, wiper motors were also being sourced from abroad.
How many firms out there manufacture caravan windows? Where is the choice? The answer is the same as for the other caravan builders who also fit the same windows. Of course Bailey could provide the templates for another plastics company to manufacture them but how much would that add to the cost of the van? The window as it stands from Polyplastics is almost £300.
Maybe after the fiasco with these windows Bailey will source another supplier but my warranty is with Polyplastics and I'm covered until the problem is corrected because as soon as a replacement is fitted I get a new two year warranty. I'm still able to use my caravan, the window doesn't leak and the problem is basically cosmetic so I've no grumbles. My mobile engineer fits it in minutes at my convenience and at no cost to me