Bailey production line!!!!!

[ProfAlGoogle]

Think we are missing the point here, overalls are only a small part of the working ethos, when put together with modern working methods and practices, we then get better results in the end product, that in turn will hopefully help to reduce the amount of returns that Bailey and most other manufacturers have to contend with, that alone will far outweigh the cost of any overalls. Get it right first time! NVQ Any one

 

[Dustydog]

Testing

 

[xtrailman]

Of cause Bailey are to blame.
They alone decide who gets the contract to supply.
Bailey are responsible for the specification, no one else.
Bailey have gone for the cheapest window, not the best.
Just the same as BL with that pile of junk they had the cheek to pass of as a car.
The day i collected it the engine developed a leak, but with your thought process i suppose you blame the engine supplier?.
So who is to blame for the cars paint finnish, the paint supplier?
For the sized rear wiper, the wiper motor maker?

BL made the car ,chose the components to fit in it, and put the bits together to pass it of as a car.

Exactly the same as Bailey.

Which is why your on window no3

Why do you keep harping on about something that happened 30 years ago back in the days of Derek Robinson? The Prof answered the comments about BL admirably and if it wasn't for crap management, closed shop working with communist union leaders maybe BL would still be around today.
Back then the UK was a main manufacturing country and most of the car components were sourced in this country. Does this still apply today? No, it doesn't. At the time you're talking about things were starting to change. Lucas were no longer manufacturing a lot of parts in this country due to the industrial unrest. Their headlight units were now being manufactured in Canada and starter motors, dynamos, wiper motors were also being sourced from abroad.
How many firms out there manufacture caravan windows? Where is the choice? The answer is the same as for the other caravan builders who also fit the same windows. Of course Bailey could provide the templates for another plastics company to manufacture them but how much would that add to the cost of the van? The window as it stands from Polyplastics is almost £300.
Maybe after the fiasco with these windows Bailey will source another supplier but my warranty is with Polyplastics and I'm covered until the problem is corrected because as soon as a replacement is fitted I get a new two year warranty. I'm still able to use my caravan, the window doesn't leak and the problem is basically cosmetic so I've no grumbles. My mobile engineer fits it in minutes at my convenience and at no cost to me

At no time have i mentioned management or unions?
What i have refered to is a poor end product, and the reasons for the poor end product.

Clearly your Bailey is faulty, the windows are not fit for purpose.
Its quite pointless praising how good your repairer is.

The fact is my 2004 Bailey has its ORIGINAL windows, so Bailey do know how to fit a product, fit for purpose.

BL when out of business because people like me chose not to buy a poor product again.

I have to also point out that the metro had all its glass supplied by France, its 4 pot brake calipers were German, and so on.
30 years ago cars were made from parts all over the world, so no different to today.

 

[Lord Braykewynde]

At no time have i mentioned management or unions?
What i have refered to is a poor end product, and the reasons for the poor end product.

Clearly your Bailey is faulty, the windows are not fit for purpose.
Its quite pointless praising how good your repairer is.

The fact is my 2004 Bailey has its ORIGINAL windows, so Bailey do know how to fit a product, fit for purpose.

BL when out of business because people like me chose not to buy a poor product again.

I have to also point out that the metro had all its glass supplied by France, its 4 pot brake calipers were German, and so on.
30 years ago cars were made from parts all over the world, so no different to today.

First of all can I ask you to learn how to edit a quote because before long each of your replies will be two pages long

Maybe before you sit at the computer you could put some overalls on to make you more proficient

Did I say you mentioned unions? All I did was answer why BL went down the pan

and the reason for their poor end product.

How can my Bailey be faulty? It is one window that is faulty that's made by Polyplastics of Belgium. Neither was I praising my mobile engineer although I'm sure Richard wouldn't mind if I did

I was merely pointing out that the window is of no inconvenience to ourselves

and I have no complaints regarding the caravan

love it

Why did you have to strengthen my point when I'd already said that BL components were being sourced abroad. Very strange

Don't forget, BL's industrial unrest wasn't an overnight wonder. It went on for years and the rot probably started with hydrolastic suspension which must have cost them millions with the development and warranty work.

 

[Parksy]

Let's try not to wind each other up too much gentlemen

It's bad for the blood pressure!

Derek Robinson is unlikely to be offered a job at Bailey anytime soon, I'd imagine that he's drawing his pension now.
BL workers wore company overalls which made little or no difference to the (lack of) build quality which ultimately led to their demise.

This discussion is centred around the video clip showing caravan assembly workers at Bailey who don't wear company clothing and who apparently ignore H&S guidelines and whether members think that QA would improve with the issue of company clothing

 

[Philspadders]

Quality does improve when everyone wears the same clothing. Quality Assurance is based on practices being carried out the same way, everytime , by everyone. A uniform not only helps this conformity but also builds a team ethos. It was one of the initial factors underpinning Japanese QA especially the Toyota Production System, Qs9000 and a host of others.

If Baily managers are permitting continous breaches of H&S then they leave themselves open to prosecution should an accident occur.

As for the Windows, if the H & S is as described then i doubt Bailey are running QAS ( quality accunting system- in other words , what is the cost of qulaity ) or even a Vendor Quality Index.

Some companies still see quality control as a "cost" that they dont want to bear. Often becuase they dont understand the ongoing cost of quality failures to the business. Perhaps no one has actually measured the cost of window replacements so in the mix ist regarded as "1 or 2" per year so worth worrying about. The reality may be that its many more and the cost is significant.
However, if the cost of thje windoiws is low , the overall cost to the business may be minimal and a decision has been taken to continue fitting them, as changing supplier or redesign may have a higher cost to the business.

Ultimatley if you dont like what you see on the video then dont buy one.

 

[Dustydog]

As for the Windows, if the H & S is as described then i doubt Bailey are running QAS ( quality accunting system- in other words , what is the cost of qulaity ) or even a Vendor Quality Index.

Oh dear Phil
Maybe you were pixilated when you wrote the last script?

Uniforms, workwear,etc , were conceived to make an employee easily recognisable and for protection against harmful substances used in the work place. I really don't see how a uniform can make a better worker of a person?
When I was at work they had a dress down day once a month. I could never understand why anyone would want to wear their best casual clothes to work. There was some obscure theory that it made them feel happier and relaxed and thus their individual performance was improved.
Odd that because these days I feel far happier being a shaggy dog

Maybe Bailey have management evidence that a casually dressed workforce is more productive?

 

[Lord Braykewynde]

Derek Robinson is unlikely to be offered a job at Bailey anytime soon, I'd imagine that he's drawing his pension now.

He is probably having the time of his life by the Black Sea in his dacha. All paid for by union monies or his Russian paymasters

 

[xtrailman]

As for the Windows, if the H & S is as described then i doubt Bailey are running QAS ( quality accunting system- in other words , what is the cost of qulaity ) or even a Vendor Quality Index.

Oh dear Phil
Maybe you were pixilated when you wrote the last script?

Uniforms, workwear,etc , were conceived to make an employee easily recognisable and for protection against harmful substances used in the work place. I really don't see how a uniform can make a better worker of a person?
When I was at work they had a dress down day once a month. I could never understand why anyone would want to wear their best casual clothes to work. There was some obscure theory that it made them feel happier and relaxed and thus their individual performance was improved.
Odd that because these days I feel far happier being a shaggy dog

Maybe Bailey have management evidence that a casually dressed workforce is more productive?

I still say its all about image.
If not why do we never see a F1 team, dressed causally.
Can you visualize a Ferrari surround by a crew without uniform?

 

[OmOnWeelz]

If Bailey are perceived to be a company that employs riff raf

How does that work. Are you saying because staff don't where a uniform they are riff raff.
I had a welder who would where the same jeans to work until they fell apart. Covered in tattoo's he really scared my daughters when they met him. You couldn't find a more skilled hard working dedicated man. A friends company had an engineer known as
"smelly -----". He ran a variety of machines single handed and programmed them and did the work of about 3 people and was very highly paid. Another contact I worked with supplied British Aerospace with highest grade machined parts, his workers were all odd balls and not the neatest of skilled tradesmen by a long chalk. One end of the workshop had rock music blasting and the other end had a guy permanently plugged in to a earphones and classic music. Aerospace uni qualified progress chasers and QA people hated having to go in the workshop and only ever got swore at, none of the work was ever rejected and when Jim and his mn decided to pack it in the aircraft people has trouble finding companies who could offer the same quality and speed of work.
We have a Bailey and have had no problems at all and we'll probably buy another. A bit off workforce gloss just doesn't mean you get top quality.

 

[Dustydog]

I still say its all about image.
If not why do we never see a F1 team, dressed causally.
Can you visualize a Ferrari surround by a crew without uniform?

That's quite right Ray. The Ferrari F1 Team need to be in red so their drivers can spot them in the pit lane. In truth the real reason is H&S in so far as the uniforms are for protection if something goes wrong eg a fire , overrun etc.
There is a time and place for a uniform such as the cockpit of a 747, but on a factory floor I'm more concerned with the person's ability rather than dress.

 

[NickinFrance]

I may be a bit out of touch, It's 40 years since I worked on 'the shop floor' but we were provided with boiler suits for protection of our own clothes.
While scruffy workers may be good, there is the perception that someone who takes pride in their appearence will take pride in everything else (s)he does.

 

[xtrailman]

If Bailey are perceived to be a company that employs riff raf

How does that work. Are you saying because staff don't where a uniform they are riff raff.
I had a welder who would where the same jeans to work until they fell apart. Covered in tattoo's he really scared my daughters when they met him. You couldn't find a more skilled hard working dedicated man. A friends company had an engineer known as
"smelly -----". He ran a variety of machines single handed and programmed them and did the work of about 3 people and was very highly paid. Another contact I worked with supplied British Aerospace with highest grade machined parts, his workers were all odd balls and not the neatest of skilled tradesmen by a long chalk. One end of the workshop had rock music blasting and the other end had a guy permanently plugged in to a earphones and classic music. Aerospace uni qualified progress chasers and QA people hated having to go in the workshop and only ever got swore at, none of the work was ever rejected and when Jim and his mn decided to pack it in the aircraft people has trouble finding companies who could offer the same quality and speed of work.
We have a Bailey and have had no problems at all and we'll probably buy another. A bit off workforce gloss just doesn't mean you get top quality.

You really need to read my post that you have quoted.

"If Bailey are perceived to be a company that employs riff raf"
Which is to say, they maybe, not that they are rif raf.
Image, image !

 

[xtrailman]

I still say its all about image.
If not why do we never see a F1 team, dressed causally.
Can you visualize a Ferrari surround by a crew without uniform?

That's quite right Ray. The Ferrari F1 Team need to be in red so their drivers can spot them in the pit lane. In truth the real reason is H&S in so far as the uniforms are for protection if something goes wrong eg a fire , overrun etc.
There is a time and place for a uniform such as the cockpit of a 747, but on a factory floor I'm more concerned with the person's ability rather than dress.

Why does a pilot have to have a uniform?
Wheres the H&S issue?
Its about image, nothing else.
If the pilot was dressed in overalls, (as i wore for 25 year), does that mean he cant fly?

 

[xtrailman]

I may be a bit out of touch, It's 40 years since I worked on 'the shop floor' but we were provided with boiler suits for protection of our own clothes.
While scruffy workers may be good, there is the perception that someone who takes pride in their appearence will take pride in everything else (s)he does.

I agree!

 

[ProfJohnL]

A broad range of activities and processes achieves quality assurance, and it would be wrong to generalise and focus on one specific practice such as wearing a company uniform and imply it is key in QA, in its self the wearing of a uniform will not guarantee good QA, but it is one of the measures that can help to focus the employee’s to have pride in the work they do and the products they produce.

The need and rational for a uniform varies from organisation to organisation, where as an FI team wears a uniform to publicise the names of their sponsors, it also acts as a way of ensuring conformance for safety needs, the same is not necessarily true for a caravan manufacture.

Perhaps uniform is too stronger word, corporate identity is better – which may include certain types of work clothes or accessories such as ties, or colours covering the whole work force. Specific fonts and layouts for letters, logo’s or catch phrases, also help to keep a cohesive approach. Products may have distinctive family traits, this all builds into a perceived image for an organisation.

It doesn’t always work well, some companies have tried to re-launch themselves and come memorably unstuck – remember the Post Office and Consignia?

Sometimes a luxury marque has been absorbed into a larger group, and the marque disappears, only to reappear a few years later to try and enhance the groups image.

Like Nick I believe there can be a strong link between a cohesive corporate image including the wearing of corporate work clothes, and a pride in the work that people do. QA is only as good as its weakest link, and anything that can build professionalism and pride can only be a good thing.

Where poor working practices are allowed to occur and even worse put on display then the organisation really needs to get a reality check, and to ask themselves is this the image they want to put forward.

Image is important, and the fact that it has been debated in the forum shows that it worth something, for those that say it doesn’t matter, then there is nothing lost, but if it makes the difference between a customer choosing between two manufactures, then it is important.

 

[Parksy]

If we go back to the o p there are points made wondering why Bailey's workforce were not 'well turned out' and conjecture about H&S breaches.
A proper look at the footage with attention paid to the commentary will show that Bailey assembly workers operate as several small teams led by team leaders who can be identified by the 'blue polo shirt'.This has been common practice in large factories since I started work in the 1960s and probably before, the leaders were called foremen or supervisors back then and they mainly wore white or brown cowgowns. Other workers at Bailey have what may look to uninformed observers as track suit tops or leisurewear but most of these bear company logos. The nature of the work doesn't lend itself to collars and ties which would be a danger anyway and the work is not particularly clean so perhaps the footage was shot before the laundry van was due.The casual wear looks comfortable and easy to work in.
Casually employed agency staff doing unskilled jobs didn't appear to wear company clothing because they don't work for Bailey, in fact they might only be there for one or two days.
It's normal procedure to move around and to 'cross production lines', the line isn't a fast automated one and all machinery would have been fitted with the appropriate guards and warning notices as would any large factory.
It's easy to nit pick on scant knowledge gleaned from a short video clip, as factory environments go I personally have seen much, much worse. How often do newspapers or tv news bulletins carry stories of caravan assembly workers being maimed or killed?
I hardly think that Bailey would have allowed footage of their production lines to be shown if they were full of H&S breaches imagined by uninformed observers and at the end of the day it's up to individuals what they wear to work, we are not in Mao's communist China during the cultural revolution.
I see very many Bailey caravans out and about on sites so they must be doing something right. I wouldn't rely on a few minutes of video film to decide on which new caravan to buy anyway.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello Parksey

I concur with most of what you write but I cannot agree with the middle of your penultimate paragraph;

“at the end of the day it's up to individuals what they wear to work”

There are many organisations which for different reasons have dress codes. The professional food industry, health care, atomic power, fire service are all examples of where proper clothing is essential. There are other organisations where it is part of their tradition and function to use a uniform, such as the Police, and armed forces, and yet others where it is deemed necessary for social reasons such as schools, and team sports.

There are numerous activities where certain types of PPE are now statutory requirement, such as high vis jackets and helmet on building sites and other industrial or hazardous activities.

There are numerous instances where a corporate dress code is part of the contract terms of employment, such as in supermarkets and other high street shops, Public transport etc.

In none of the above cases is there an individual decision about what to wear to work.

Even in the areas where there has been traditionally been considerable freedom such as for female office staff, and teaching, there is often a dress code requiring a smart appearance limits to the heights of heels or make up, and for male staff the expectation of a suit and tie.

There was a time when Eddie Stobart’s drivers were expected to wear a shirt and tie, before the introduction of the corporate work tops and trousers.

So it is highly likely that today there are more organisations with dress codes than not, all stifling individual choices of what to wear.

 

[Parksy]

That's true John but Bailey Caravans obviously don't have a dress code, at least not for all of their workforce. As I mentioned the Bailey team leaders are identifiable but it's obvious that the ordinary unskilled labourers can wear their own choice of work clothing so in the case of Bailey which is what we are discussing it is up to individuals what they wear for work.

 

[joeby]

There are numerous activities where certain types of PPE are now statutory requirement, such as high vis jackets and helmet on building sites and other industrial or hazardous activities.
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I have worked in the construction industry since i was 18 , and yes it is a rule that you wear a high viz vest and safety helmet and steel capped boots and rightly so but that is the only thing they adhere to , every time a lift of scaffold is erected it it supposed to be inspected by a competant person , it just gets written down as inspected and you are expected to work on it inspected or not , another thing is the use of angle grinders with dust blowing every where ,even though they have a hose pipe attachment to use water , another one is the use of trestles or bandstands they might only go up about 4-5 feet but they are supposed to be fitted with guard rails when working , only ever seen them fitted twice , and they never have a ladder so you can get on these trestles you normaly have to use a pallet lent against the wall , a lot of firms hire safety companies , who's officers usually overweight visit the site and stand there talking to the site manager then dissapear , i used to keep a small slim HD camera in my top pocket so i could film the general condition of the site in case i needed evidence if i was unlucky enough to have an accident , most site are run by hypoctrites ,