Bailey Shower Cublcle

[HOVIS1]

At the beginning of the season we noticed a split in the rear corner of the Shower Cubicle. A closer inspection revealed that the splits were intermittent up the entire wall.
I contacted Bailey who responded:
The date of purchase was the 12/02/2010 you have a 6 year body ingress warranty and a 24 month component warranty. The component warranty has now expired and the body ingress warranty would expire on the 12/02/2016 as per the terms and conditions of the warrant.

I then contacted my Insurance Co. who instigated an Inspection with the following outcome:
Under the terms of your insurance policy, in order for policy cover to operate it is necessary for the loss to have occurred as a result of one of the perils listed in your insurance policy.
Maybe if we had abused the shower cubicle in some way, we might be eligible!!!!

They also put in their report:
In view of the above, the damage has not occurred due to an insured peril, but due to a faulty design or construction.

I have since contacted Bailey with regards to the above comment, and am awaiting their response, but expect a ”wriggle”!!

I sealed the split areas from floor to ceiling with white Duck Tape, and this has proved satisfactory during the summer travels. The cost of a replacement wall with fitting is just under £475 !!
We do not use the Shower Cubicle for its intended purpose, and the Caravan is kept an ambient temperature during the winter months. So frost damage can be ruled out.
I would comment, that behind the offending wall, there is no support, only a void.
Has anyone had a similar experience ??

 

[Damian]

If you don't use the shower for its intended purpose, what do you use it for?

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello Hovis,

This type of situation is so frustrating for the customer, but Bailey are quite right about their liability and that is what you signed up for with their manufacturers warranty.

However this is not entirely without hope, and crazy at may seem you still may have claim against your supplier. Every time you make a retail purchase you automatically become the beneficiary of a number of statutory rights as defined by the Sale of Goods Act (SoGA). The act requires sellers to supply goods that are of merchantable quality, fit for purpose, and free from material or workmanship defects.

So this means your seller is liable if they sell a defective product, but importantly in your case, they are also liable if a product fails within its normal life time up to a maximum of 6 years, so if a latent defect arises the seller is still potentially responsible.

But most cases where this type of situation arises the customer is faced with an uphill battle to prove a fault is the result of a defect or fault arising from design material or workmanship, but you have an independent assessment by a professional which states:-

"In view of the above, the damage has not occurred due to an insured peril, but due to a faulty design or construction."

Wow what a present. On the face of it you can call on your seller to put this right under the terms of SoGA free of charge.

What does concern me is we haven't seen the Insurance assessors letter and there may be a weasel phrases which prevents you using the letter to further your claim.

Do look up Sale of Goods Act and How To Complain on sites like Which? or the Money Saving Expert.

SoGA is there for situations like yours, I strongly suggest you seriously look into it.

Good Luck...... Incidentally I deliberately used the word "seller" and not dealer because if you used a finance product to purchase the caravan, they are jointly responsible with the retailer.

 

[HOVIS1]

Cool box on floor
Shoes on floor
Spare cushions over night.
Why do you ask, what do you use yours for ??
It is very much like many things in Caravans these day, They come fitted and are there even though not required-
i.e. Microwave!!

 

[HOVIS1]

Thank for your reply.
I will give it fair consideration, after any response from Baily.
Thanks again.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Thank for your reply.
I will give it fair consideration, after any response from Baily.
Thanks again.

Hello Again,

If Bailey do agree to cover it through the Manufacturers warranty all well and good, but as they have already responded and confirmed the claim is out their contractual warranty period, Effectively the manufactures warranty is an insurance, and you would not expect an insurer to pay out if the policy has expired. So don't hold your breath.

The manufacturer is not legally obliged to offer any sort of warranty. The Warranty they do offer is a gift with T&Cs, and is contractually binding if you sign up to it. BUT it can never supplant or override your statutory rights afforded under SoGA with the seller - Its the law!

The legal liability for the condition of any product rests with the seller and in the case of caravans that is usually the dealer, but as I also pointed out if you use credit, then the finance house is jointly liable.

The law is very clear. but sadly not always understood by consumers. It is a breach of the Sale of Goods Act for a seller to sell undeclared faulty goods- even second-hand (subject to fair wear and tear).

You should take up the matter with your dealer/finance house. If they try to tell you Bailey wont cover it , remind them that under SoGA it is their responsibility and the manufacturer has no part to play in the remedy as they were not a party in the contract of sale, and cannot direct or influence the outcome of a SoGA claim.

To start things moving, use the information on the websites I suggested to formulate your approach. With a strong case, most retailers will accede to the claim with no need to implement court proceedings. The Law is on your side.

Just a couple of points to bear in mind, SoGA is not about allowing either party to get more than they are entitled to, so be honest and fair in your claim. However if the faults has created or caused any unavoidable costs then you may be entitled to claim those back but evidence (bills or invoices ) are crucial.

As ever, if you are uncertain about any of this, seek professional advice.

 

[Damian]

Cool box on floor
Shoes on floor
Spare cushions over night.
Why do you ask, what do you use yours for ??
It is very much like many things in Caravans these day, They come fitted and are there even though not required-
i.e. Microwave!!

The reason I ask is that the shower cubicle is meant as a shower cubicle, not a storage cupboard, and as such it could be argued that you are the author of your own demise by using an area for a purpose for which it was never intended.

What do I use mine for?
I don't have a shower cubicle as I never would use one in a van anyway.

 

[PaulT]

I agree with Damian, you've shot yourself in the foot by admitting you don't use it as a shower.

Having had recent experience with SOGA and a caravan that was less than 2 years old, you're facing an uphill task trying to claim from the manufacturer.

 

[ProfJohnL]

I agree with Damian, you've shot yourself in the foot by admitting you don't use it as a shower.

Having had recent experience with SOGA and a caravan that was less than 2 years old, you're facing an uphill task trying to claim from the manufacturer.

Hello Paul.
It may have been a slip on your part, but SoGA only ever relates to the customer's contract with the seller. Unless the manufactures sold the goods direct you would not use SoGA to deal with a manufacturer.

 

[Dustydog]

Hi Hovis
What Bailey model have you?
A friend went down the SOGA route and Insurance Ombudsman last year. His claim failed because we could not prove with technical evidence the cause of the problem was a Latent Defect present at the time of construction and pre purchase. I am assuming your shower is not a modular unit but rather a plastic sheet clad one?. If the latter the plastic sheets are easily a day cheaply available and not too difficult to install.
I suspect the goods you have stored inside the shower have caused the damage.
Sadly things do bounce about inside a caravan whilst moving.

 

[ProfJohnL]

I do not totally agree with some of the other contributors about the inadmissibility of your claim for the following reasons.

A shower floor must be designed to be strong enough to accept the full weight of an adult stepping into or out of the shower on one foot! That is the whole weight say my weight of 80kg acting through an area of 0.01125 sqM (my size 6 foot)

What is the weight of coolbox? Well its much less than my weight and what is its foot print? much bigger than my foot so the pressure it will exert on the floor will be vastly smaller than my foot.

Based on distributed loading above its highly unlikely even with bouncing when towing that the mouldings pressure resistance would be exceeded.

The only way it might cause damage is if the cool box has sharp corners which might puncture , but its unlikely to cause a long tear or split.

Space in a caravan is at a premium, and most spaces are used fore more than one single purpose. I would be very surprised if most caravanners do not use the shower cubicle to carry some items when towing. It may not be its intended purpose but it is an accepted common practice.

Unlike the case that Dusty recalls, in this instance the OP already has an independent report by an insurance assessor that openly describes the symptom to be indicative of a design fault.

In my opinion a SoGA action would have reasonable chance of success. But as I have already written if the OP is not confident to proceed they should seek professional advice.

 

[Dustydog]

Prof
You refer to the shower floor
. I thought the OP was talking about the shower walls which seem to have split in a "jagged" way at a joint , almost as if torn rather than the joint itself.

 

[Damian]

Quote " It may not be its intended purpose but it is an accepted common practice "

It may be such to the caravan user but it is most certainly NOT as far as the manufacturer is concerned, and especially as far as warranty on the item is concerned.
If it has been misused, which using it as a storage unit is, then that is down to the user, not the maker.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Prof
You refer to the shower floor
. I thought the OP was talking about the shower walls which seem to have split in a "jagged" way at a joint , almost as if torn rather than the joint itself.

Hello Dusty,

Yes the OP does relate to the walls but the items he mentions he stores there will be at floor level s and the loads and thrusta will be at floor level.

Hello Damian,
Yes, the use to which the shower is being put is not its prime designed purpose, but spaces in caravans often have dual purpose. The fact is the loads and thrusts involved are not likely to be the causal factors for the damage reported.

 

[Dustydog]

Prof
You refer to the shower floor
. I thought the OP was talking about the shower walls which seem to have split in a "jagged" way at a joint , almost as if torn rather than the joint itself.

Hello Dusty,

Yes the OP does relate to the walls but the items he mentions he stores there will be at floor level s and the loads and thrusta will be at floor level.

Hello Damian,
Yes, the use to which the shower is being put is not its prime designed purpose, but spaces in caravans often have dual purpose. The fact is the loads and thrusts involved are not likely to be the causal factors for the damage reported.

I say Prof
Have you ever seen vids of things moving around inside a caravan ?
Most people's cool boxes are filled to the brim with coke , beers etc.Securing such a load is not easy. I suggest the moving objects would have been hitting the shower cubicle walls and hence the damage.
Reference to the floor seems irrelevant here.
According to Bailey solid objects should not be transported in the shower cubicle.
I wonder why?

 

[Raywood]

Looking at this the storage of goods may be a major problem. The insurance repudiation is sound in that there is no cover unless you can show that you accidently damaged it but given you did not say that when you reported the claim they are not going to believe you now. The reference to a manufacturing defect looks like a badly worded letter as from what I can see there is no evidence of this.
If you want to pursue the dealer you would need to get a proper report on the damage which might cost near enough the repair cost anyway. A small claims action though might work if you can swear that nothing did damage the shower as the dealer might just find it cheaper to to settle than pay.
Basically you can say a shower should not split within five years and use the Latin maxim "res ipsa loquiter" meaning "the thing speaks for itself" to try and turn the tables on them. I cannot guarantee success but it may work.

 

[Craigyoung]

To this day I have not used the shower in our van , the kids maybe twice and my beloved the once , but as others say we also pack things away in there when we travel but pack it so nothing budges with a few cushions to keep it secure , the water bowser , the waste water container and watering can

 

[Damian]

Quote " Yes, the use to which the shower is being put is not its prime designed purpose, but spaces in caravans often have dual purpose."

I have to disagree.
Nowhere in any makers handbook does it say that shower cubicles are alternative storage areas.

The only dual purpose areas I know of are those where a dining area can be turned into a bed. or seating can be turned into a bed.
A cupboard is a cupboard, and is meant for storage or the siting of fixed equipment such as water heater etc, which are fixed in place.

As has been said, in the OP's case it has nothing to do with the floor, it is to do with the walls.

I have seen the results of relatively light objects being thrown around in the van during transit and the damage they can do, and it is extensive.

 

[ProfJohnL]

It now up to the OP

Good luck

 

[HOVIS1]

I would appear that I have opened a whole can of worms regarding this subject and would like to thank all the replies, some helpful and others from the “Barrack Room Lawyers”!

I would like to qualify a few points:
1. I stated that the Shower Unit has never been used for its intended propose – Only to point out that no water had even been present.
2. Nothing is placed in this area during travelling, (common sense!!) and when on site the cool box is placed back in there. At night, the unwanted cushions are placed in there.
When travelling the Cool box is placed over the Axel, and is NOT in the Shower Cubicle.
3. The floor pan is separate from the wall, the wall slots in to lugs on the floor pan, thus obviating any suggestion of stress and strain causing the problem.
4. Much suggestion has been made about any misuse of the area, and this has not been the case. Having been caravanning for 50 years, I am sure that I have learned a few tricks!!!!
Finally, As the ‘van we have will now be our last, we have decided to leave the tape repaired area as it is, and save our selves the sum of £450 having something restored when not really needed.
Thank you all once more for your comments and I now consider the matter closed.