Gafferbill said:
That's not my experience of LEDs on LGVs. I've lost count of the number I've had to change, especially side marker lights on trailers.
That's not my experience of LEDs on LGVs. I've lost count of the number I've had to change, especially side marker lights on trailers.
Ive had 3 led marker lights on my van fail, just a thought what would happen if when you collect your van and the lights don't work and they haven't got the boxes in stock, what do you do? You cant take the van as its not roadworthy?
I t seems to me that the responses show that led road lighting has benefits and drawbacks, but I am still of the opinion that the manufacturers are fitting led systems to justify the difference in ranges and not to offer a definite improvement. I will be playing safe and keeping the van we have 'better the devil you know'
woodsieboy said:
I'm not so sure range differentiation is the only reason. All industry is under pressure to reduce its carbon footprint, and improve its ecological credentials the use of LEDs helps as there are few harmful chemicals and energy used in the production of an LED compared to a filament or vapour lamp, and they also use less power when in use.
Historically features and technology first used in the top of the range models usually over few years finds its way into the more basic models, either to attract the buying public or to satisfy government or EU targets. Sometimes the drill down effect is quite rapid, for example back in 1974 Carver introduced the SB1800 space heater to the UK. by 1976 it was standard fit across about 75% of all UK touring caravan production. By 1978 99% of all UK touring caravans had space heating.
Your point that features appear first on top models, when fashion or safety items and then gradually work their way down is the way that cars and caravans have evolved "for ever"ProfJohnL said:
From memory of buying an '83 mid-range ABI, the early '80s budget and mid-range caravans didn't get space heating - it was the preserve of the elite ranges. It became more popular after sandwich construction had been introduced as it was easier to install through a ply/foam/ply floor.
I think there are a number of observations in this discussion that need comment.
LEDs do take less current but it is not as if CanBus and lamp monitoring is new - it has been around commonly for well over a decade - so I would argue that there is no excuse for a caravan manufacturer not to install a compatible light fitting, Even if the tow still had a mechanical towing relay the bulb would in effect be sensed so the trailer with LED lights would still need to pull enough current (not voltage as one contributor said) to make the relay work.
Plug-in LED bulbs with a load inside them are readily available to replace conventional bulbs with or without sensing, so again why cannot the caravan manufacturer fit a compatible unit? Per another comment, if the tow has a manufacturer or equivalent towbar fitted and it is wired into CanBus by a fitted plug then there is nothing at all that can be done to the vehicle to make the sensing work - it is the caravan that must be modified. If however a flash driver (the sort that beeps) has been fitted by the towbar installer (cheap job but very common) then a different unit needs fitting that will sense any current no matter how small drawn by the LED lamps.
Per LED lamps as standard fit (as on my Passat estate) when a LED dies it might go short circuit which will kill the driver chip. If there is only one chip (unlikely) then everything will die, but if there are several driver chips then only a selection of the LEDs will go out. If one LED of several on a caravan fitting failed it is unlikely that the difference would be seen - it would need maybe 10-20% of them to fail to see any real difference.
In respect of the comment that LEDs fail in effect through surge, no. A LED has to have a resistor in series (or a small piece of electronics within the 'bulb' to limit the current) so by definition there will be no surge as such. Add to that that most LED lighting units are strobed - they switch on and off very quickly so that they appear to the human eye to be constantly on - and the surge argument goes out of the window. (If you want to see if your LED car lights are strobed, use your digital camera to take a video of the light working. To ensure your camera can see the strobing get someone in the passenger seat to take a similar video of the smart motorway LED speed limit signs and you will see the red ring going round and round very quickly.)
Of interest strobing is why the earlier LED domestic replacement bulbs cannot be used with dimmers or they will start flashing.
In terms of responsibility, under SoGA the contract is with the dealer, so as long as it is highlighted to the dealer when the order is placed that the caravan lighting must work with CanBus (they probably will have no idea what you are talking about so accept it) then if your new pride and joy does not work it is up to the dealer to resolve the issue. If they refuse to accept your Condition of Supply (as it is known) take your business elsewhere - which may of course concentrate their minds. I suspect that until the DoT or one of the motoring organisations get onto the bandwagon or someone takes a manufacturer to Court after having been themselves been given a ticket nothing will be done.
I wonder: does anyone know if Construction and Use Regulations apply to just the vehicle or to the whole train when a caravan is attached?
LEDs do take less current but it is not as if CanBus and lamp monitoring is new - it has been around commonly for well over a decade - so I would argue that there is no excuse for a caravan manufacturer not to install a compatible light fitting, Even if the tow still had a mechanical towing relay the bulb would in effect be sensed so the trailer with LED lights would still need to pull enough current (not voltage as one contributor said) to make the relay work.
Plug-in LED bulbs with a load inside them are readily available to replace conventional bulbs with or without sensing, so again why cannot the caravan manufacturer fit a compatible unit? Per another comment, if the tow has a manufacturer or equivalent towbar fitted and it is wired into CanBus by a fitted plug then there is nothing at all that can be done to the vehicle to make the sensing work - it is the caravan that must be modified. If however a flash driver (the sort that beeps) has been fitted by the towbar installer (cheap job but very common) then a different unit needs fitting that will sense any current no matter how small drawn by the LED lamps.
Per LED lamps as standard fit (as on my Passat estate) when a LED dies it might go short circuit which will kill the driver chip. If there is only one chip (unlikely) then everything will die, but if there are several driver chips then only a selection of the LEDs will go out. If one LED of several on a caravan fitting failed it is unlikely that the difference would be seen - it would need maybe 10-20% of them to fail to see any real difference.
In respect of the comment that LEDs fail in effect through surge, no. A LED has to have a resistor in series (or a small piece of electronics within the 'bulb' to limit the current) so by definition there will be no surge as such. Add to that that most LED lighting units are strobed - they switch on and off very quickly so that they appear to the human eye to be constantly on - and the surge argument goes out of the window. (If you want to see if your LED car lights are strobed, use your digital camera to take a video of the light working. To ensure your camera can see the strobing get someone in the passenger seat to take a similar video of the smart motorway LED speed limit signs and you will see the red ring going round and round very quickly.)
Of interest strobing is why the earlier LED domestic replacement bulbs cannot be used with dimmers or they will start flashing.
In terms of responsibility, under SoGA the contract is with the dealer, so as long as it is highlighted to the dealer when the order is placed that the caravan lighting must work with CanBus (they probably will have no idea what you are talking about so accept it) then if your new pride and joy does not work it is up to the dealer to resolve the issue. If they refuse to accept your Condition of Supply (as it is known) take your business elsewhere - which may of course concentrate their minds. I suspect that until the DoT or one of the motoring organisations get onto the bandwagon or someone takes a manufacturer to Court after having been themselves been given a ticket nothing will be done.
I wonder: does anyone know if Construction and Use Regulations apply to just the vehicle or to the whole train when a caravan is attached?
When a trailer is attached, the whole unit is regarded in UK law as "the vehicle" - so by implication C&U regs apply.
I echo Rogers last comment, but infact any device designed for use on the public roads must comply with construction and use with regards to vehicle lighting.
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