Beginning to despair!

Jul 18, 2017
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It seems that everything is going against us with caravan issues and also the car. Hopefully caravan is now sorted so we can get on with enjoying some relaxing times away in the caravan.

Some of you may recall that earleir in Sept I was very concerned about a warning message on the dashboard of my 2012 Jeep as the Jeep was due for its MOT. The warning was regarding a message "Serv 4WD" plus the Electronic Stability Control (ESC) Activation light glowing. I had a 3 year service plan with the Jeep dealership and this covered up to £750 of repairs that may be required as a result of the MOT or service.

I dropped the Jeep off at the Jeep dealership in the morning with the warning message permently on. Anyway the Jeep went through the MOT with no reference to the warning message. I collected the Jeep and no warning message so was quite please.

However between the date of the servcie and now in the past month we have doen less than 500 miles with the Jeep. Unfortunately the message "Serv 4WD" and ESC Actitivation light are now both back up. I am now beginning to suspect that in order to save money the Jeep dealership accessed the onboard computer, removed the error message and did a temporary fix for the Jeep to pass the MOT.

In addition to the above, they never did the correct service and instead of a full service where a number of belts need to be changed etc they only did an interim service i.e one required every 6 months if the vehicle is used for police, taxi, heavy towing etc. Although the Jeep has only done 60k as it is 8 years old it should have had its 100k or 8 year service. They did the interim one for 93.5k instead and then told me it was the correct service althouhg the servcie plan clearly indicated 100k or 8th service.

They eventually conceded I was correct and the Jeep is going back, but I am not sure where I stand regarding the warning message as my gut feeling is that it should be covered by CRA 2015. Any input would be welcomed. Thanks.
 

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Oct 8, 2006
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I would have thought that if you specifically notified them of the two issues their failure to give you a response on the cause would put them in Breach of Contract.

As a company car driver of 30+ years before retirement I got round it by providing the garage with a written (typed) list of all/any faults and then asked to be told what they had done to fix said faults when I collected the car. If the response was 'fixed' or some such stupid reply I asked to see the Service Manager. If you used the same dealership regularly that interview only took place once - they 'got it right' thereafter!
Example: I had a Sierra estate. When you went over a bump and the front suspension flexed you had no idea which way it would go when the nose came down again - it might veer slightly left, slightly right or even go straight on. Report this to service reception and they put down 'check steering.'
 
Oct 21, 2020
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Would it be worth getting an independent inspection done perhaps?
Maybe a report highlighting the issues would be a good tool with which to commence the conversation with your dealer?
In my experience, a lot of places these days do the absolute minimum they can get away with.
Good luck and I hope you get this sorted without too much stress (enough of that malarkey going on at the moment)

Kev
 
Jul 18, 2017
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Would it be worth getting an independent inspection done perhaps?
Maybe a report highlighting the issues would be a good tool with which to commence the conversation with your dealer?
In my experience, a lot of places these days do the absolute minimum they can get away with.
Good luck and I hope you get this sorted without too much stress (enough of that malarkey going on at the moment)

Kev
I agree, but software is limited to franchised dealer so straihgt away you have an issue as they probably cannot access any records on the Jeep. On a previous 2005 Jeep GC the same issue was resolved by changing the sensors on the wheels.
I guess the software issue probably applies to many vehicles these days as the dealer can probably shut down a fault without having to repair it.
 
Mar 14, 2005
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The CRA relates to the liability for completing contractual arrangement's and the goods or services specified in the contract.

If you specifically asked the garage to investigate and correct a particular issue, and they agreed to the request, they should specifically report back on what they found and what they did. The level and detail of that report may need to be specified.

I suggest your first action should be to talk to your garage, and find out what was or wasn't done.
 
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Nov 6, 2005
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The CRA relates to the liability for completing contractual arrangement's and the goods or services specified in the contract.

If you specifically asked the garage to investigate and correct a particular issue, and they agreed to the request, they should specifically report back on what they found and what they did. The level and detail of that report may need to be specified, for example

A suggest your first action should be to talk to your garage, and find out what was or wasn't done.
Many modern dealerships have "service advisers" who just don't understand cars - so any technical description of the fault is often not passed on to the actual mechanic doing the work - but to be fair, on a couple of occasions my local VW dealer's advisors have brought the mechanic out to talk to me directly.
 
Jul 18, 2017
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The CRA relates to the liability for completing contractual arrangement's and the goods or services specified in the contract.

If you specifically asked the garage to investigate and correct a particular issue, and they agreed to the request, they should specifically report back on what they found and what they did. The level and detail of that report may need to be specified, for example

A suggest your first action should be to talk to your garage, and find out what was or wasn't done.
Thanks however we assumed that the repair would be covered under the service plan. The mere fact that the dealer removed the message for the MOT clearly indicates that they were aware of the message.

I would think that they were in breach of their contract not only under CRA 2015, but in other areas of legislation that I am not familar with at this time. The service plan is paid by DD over 36 months so not sure if FOS can be involved?

I have spoken with dealer about other issues, but not the message as it only came on yesterday and the vehicle is going in for the correct service on Tuesday. Just annoyed at an additional 6 hour round trip (3 hour in the morning and again 3 hours in the afternoon) as the dealer is 65miles from our residence.

Normally we book in and stay on a caravan site nearby so less than 30 minutes to dealer. However as caravan is in for service plus other factors we cannot use the caravan site nearby.
 
May 7, 2012
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The MOT is a once a year check and once it is issued you do not have to worry about anything happening later invalidating it. Basically you have to have the car safe to use on the road in line with the RTA, whether you can use it with any warning lights on depends on if they indicate a safety related fault or not.
 
Nov 6, 2005
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Thanks however we assumed that the repair would be covered under the service plan. The mere fact that the dealer removed the message for the MOT clearly indicates that they were aware of the message.

I would think that they were in breach of their contract not only under CRA 2015, but in other areas of legislation that I am not familar with at this time. The service plan is paid by DD over 36 months so not sure if FOS can be involved?

I have spoken with dealer about other issues, but not the message as it only came on yesterday and the vehicle is going in for the correct service on Tuesday. Just annoyed at an additional 6 hour round trip (3 hour in the morning and again 3 hours in the afternoon) as the dealer is 65miles from our residence.

Normally we book in and stay on a caravan site nearby so less than 30 minutes to dealer. However as caravan is in for service plus other factors we cannot use the caravan site nearby.
Sometimes messages remain displayed even if the fault goes away - so it's normal to reset any fault warnings and start again - the fact that the fault wasn't displayed while the car was MoT'd simply indicates the fault not present at that time, so no liability to fix under their MoT promise.
 
Jul 18, 2017
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The MOT is a once a year check and once it is issued you do not have to worry about anything happening later invalidating it. Basically you have to have the car safe to use on the road in line with the RTA, whether you can use it with any warning lights on depends on if they indicate a safety related fault or not.
I do understand that however I am driving a vehicle where I am aware of the warning light about the ESC and secondly the proper repair should have been done as per the service contract. For the 3 years service contract it has cost me in excess of £1400.
We took out the service plan because of the "12 month cover £750" as we assumed that was "insurance" and basically it is as we are covered/insured for up to £750 cover.
The wording specifically states; 100000 miles 11 Oct Manufacturer MOT - £54.85 MOT Check & Repair 12 Month cover £750 worth 4x4 transfer box oil, Replace axle oil.
Just to add that when I was querying this with them last month I was informed that the rep had misinformed me and due to other issues the rep had been made redundant however the contract was approved by management.
The 100k service is the most expensive of the 3 services and without a service plan is £700+ for the 100kservice.

Not that it matters, but last year they recorded my mileage as 13232 and this year it is 60327. However when I bought the vehicle it already done 45k. LOL!
 
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Oct 21, 2020
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Sounds like that although you have the expense and hassle of the round trip again you need to be pretty hard nosed with the dealership. Perhaps an email the day before going to confirm why you are returning and what specific outcomes you are Expecting?
Hope you get sorted.

Kev
 
Mar 14, 2005
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This is a matter you need to clear up with your dealer.

Like caravan warranties, it is up to the customer to return the goods to the seller's designated depot. Only if that service has failed ( in accordance with the CRA criteria ) might you start to claim expenses for travel caused by the failure of the service act the dealer carried (or failed to carry,) out.

This is another example of where buying goods from remote sellers rebounds when it comes to getting warranty matters resolved.

This is a mole hill not a mountain.

CRA and FOS should be a last resort when you have exhausted the dealers complaints procedures.

Talk to your dealer!!
 
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Jul 18, 2017
1,779
325
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This is a matter you need to clear up with your dealer.

Like caravan warranties, it is up to the customer to return the goods to the seller's designated depot. Only if that service has failed ( in accordance with the CRA criteria ) might you start to claim expenses for travel caused by the failure of the service act the dealer carried (or failed to carry,) out.

This is another example of where buying goods from remote sellers rebounds when it comes to getting warranty matters resolved.

This is a mole hill not a mountain.

CRA and FOS should be a last resort when you have exhausted the dealers complaints procedures.

Talk to your dealer!!
Thanks for the advice and I have emailed them my concerns pointing out the error of their way. Previously we have had very good service from the dealer, but this seems to have gone down the pan.
When we took out the contract we were aware of the travel distance, but the caravan park nearby was one of our favourites so no issue staying there for a couple of days while vehicle is serviced. The nearest Jeep dealer to us has one of the worst national reputations in the industry and if I were able to mention their name, many would agree with me. Frying pan and fire comes to mind! :)
The dealer will be reimbursing us for the loan car and also fuel used by us traveeling thee and back and includes fuel in loan car.
The concern is the fault message come back up. the other thing si that the dealer states the rear disc being 60& worn and corroded on their check but no mention on the MOT test of thsi which is a major fail.
Under the repsent circumstances the hassle with caravan and vehicle is something we coudl do without, but will soldier on.
 
Jan 3, 2012
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Good Luck i hope the jeep company comes through and without to much stress but keep us updated how you get on...
 
Jul 18, 2017
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The rear discs worn are not a fail.They used to be,but not anymore.
Okay thanks however they are supposedly to be badly corroded. With a previous vehicle we were informed by a different garage that the rear brakes were 75% worn and needed replacing. Only problem is that the discs had been replaced about 2 months previously and on taking it back to the people that fitted them they clearly showed me that there was hardly any wear.
 
Jul 18, 2017
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An update. Using the advice on this thread I wrote a polite email to the service manager pointing out the error of their ways. I never mentioned any legislation etc or used any threats.
My email was then passed up the chain and the senior manager of the branch contacted me and it was agreed that was in the right on all counts and we have come to a mutually agreeable arrangement with which I am pleased.
In for its service tomorrow and collect tomorrow afternoon or Wednesday if additional work needs to be done.
 
Jan 3, 2012
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An update. Using the advice on this thread I wrote a polite email to the service manager pointing out the error of their ways. I never mentioned any legislation etc or used any threats.
My email was then passed up the chain and the senior manager of the branch contacted me and it was agreed that was in the right on all counts and we have come to a mutually agreeable arrangement with which I am pleased.
In for its service tomorrow and collect tomorrow afternoon or Wednesday if additional work needs to be done.
Pleased it a good result must be a load of your mind ..
 
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Sep 16, 2018
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With a previous vehicle we were informed by a different garage that the rear brakes were 75% worn and needed replacing. Only problem is that the discs had been replaced about 2 months previously and on taking it back to the people that fitted them they clearly showed me that there was hardly any wear.
We had similar with a main dealer who said all four discs needed replacement at 40k miles, at a cost of over £1000. After getting them checked at a local mot station who said they were fine we got a profuse apology. Last service they told us two tyres were worn and need replacement, 'only having 4mm left'. Needless to say we will be using another garage when the service plan runs out.
 
Jul 18, 2017
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Further update. Got free loan car filled to the brim with fuel. Dealer did a the correct and complete servcie on the vehicle and admist there is an issue with the Serv 4WD system which would cost £1300 to repair. Due to all the hassles etc and error on their part, they will do this repair free of charge. BTW also filled my vehicle to the brim so overall pleased.
I stood my ground and was polite about the issue as I knew I was correct and had the paperwork to demonstrate that a contract was in place.
 
Jun 16, 2020
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The brakes scam is an old one. Garages play on their punters, (as opposed to customers), being convinced that there is a safety aspect and that their vehicle could be dangerous so will more often than not agree to renewing unecessary brake parts.

I had this with a main Citroen dealership. In those days I did my own servicing. They phoned me whilest doing my service. They told me that the bakes were dangerous, the rear were full of crud and not operating and needed discs and pads. The front needed pads. I knew this was total rubbish. The odd thing is that it was the front discs if any that needed changing.

I refused. When I got home I double checked with the help of a neighbour and qualified mechanic. My brakes were fine.

The dealership did not know were I worked, and I did not actually raise a complaint. That’s because we constantly got work from the dealership in training their apprentices. But we did cause a great deal of embarisment feed back via those apprentices.

John
 
Jun 16, 2010
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The brakes scam is an old one. Garages play on their punters, (as opposed to customers), being convinced that there is a safety aspect and that their vehicle could be dangerous so will more often than not agree to renewing unecessary brake parts.

I had this with a main Citroen dealership. In those days I did my own servicing. They phoned me whilest doing my service. They told me that the bakes were dangerous, the rear were full of crud and not operating and needed discs and pads. The front needed pads. I knew this was total rubbish. The odd thing is that it was the front discs if any that needed changing.

I refused. When I got home I double checked with the help of a neighbour and qualified mechanic. My brakes were fine.

The dealership did not know were I worked, and I did not actually raise a complaint. That’s because we constantly got work from the dealership in training their apprentices. But we did cause a great deal of embarisment feed back via those apprentices.

John
Much like my car when it went in for its last services

Front tyres were brand new, less than 1.5 miles on them when i dropped it off at the garage. On their service sheet, they put them down as having 4.5mm of tread.

Did they even bother checking - what else did they 'check' ?

Brake pads have always been a money spinner for a main dealer - usually the call is along the lines of "your pads are 40% worn and you should change them"

So around halfway through their useful life then - quoting numbers in an attempt to make the situation sound far worse than it is.
 
May 7, 2012
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We get a video of the check done and the used parts back as evidence without having to ask for them, which should be safer for a customer. It possibly also saves the garage a fortune in waste disposal costs, as the parts are often heavy.
 

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