Have you ever noticed bmw's have no indicators. I sent an email once asking if I bought a specific model could I have indicators that wolrked. They didn't reply. I don't know why I thought it was a valid question at the time.
hi all
sorry ken but I don't agree with you, and while I would never launch into personal attacks or poke fun at people with an ego bigger than george bush one has to draw the line somewhere.
however being a yorkshire tyke through and through I do tend to say it as it is and call a spade a spade if you like, so don't take this as personal.
we all have a back ground, in different fields fair enough one would not try to tell a dentist how to pull teeth or try to show granny how to suck eggs so to speak but your reply really does smack of arrogance in dismissing anyone with a opposing view as ignorant, naieve,or worse.
here ar some examples:-
"A few years ago I would have agreed with your argument in it's entirety, however traffic flow stats show that it is smoother and safer for both lanes in such situations, to be used to their fullest capacity right up to the pinch point.
As a result, you should be seeing fewer and fewer "Get In Lane Now" signs, however my advice is that should you happen across such a sign this summer, please follow the instruction as the authorities will have deemed that method to be most appropriate for the location",
fair comment if this was completely true, but on every road where a dual carrageway goes down to one lane there are arrows pointing to the left at 200yds 100yds and 50yds and 25 yds telling the motorist to move into the left lane as soon as possible not to continue down the right hand lane untill it dissapears at the pinch point. also at road works the signs start well up the road sometimes miles in advance informing the motorist which lane is closed and how far away and which vehicles should be in each lane if the lanes have been narrowed or altered.with intructions to GET IN LANE NOW.
you also said "It is not my arrogance that takes me down an empty lane when it is my ability to read and obey a simple instruction.. Oh and of course my working knowledge gained from many years of working our Motorways and Dual Carriageways (apologies if you perceive that too as arrogance), it's just what I've done for years.
sorry bud but that sounds arrogant to me seems to make the point that others can't read road signs or follow simple instructions.
"I could not begin to understand the financial implications of a major banking decision or the life saving decision of a surgeon saving a life in an emergency, similarly I would not expect a person that has not had a career on the roads to understand some of the decision making that goes on behind the scenes, but the signs are explicit and easy to follow".
one does not have to have a degree in civil engineering to be able to understand that the planners have got it wrong over the last few years with new road layouts the emphasis now is on traffic congestion instead of traffic flow and it is deliberate policy, in our town a new road system has just been finished instead of the old straight road with 3 junctions on it, it now has 3 round abouts and 5 sets of lights 2 of the junction are also now oneway only, making the traffic go round the new system and all the way back to get to your exit because it is impossible to cross over the road at peak times it is now chaos as 2 lanes are for buses only.
and lastly you said "On the other matter of my car, Yes I do drive a "German thingie" but it's only a Volkswagen..nice, safe, well built and an excellent towcar, but IMHO not as posh as Mercs, BMWs or Audis and certainly nothing for me to be arrogant about".
and
"One thing I am certainly not though, is jealous of anyone having a better car than me, nor do I have an inferiority complex, which is where (some of) the above comments seem to be stemming from.
this appears to suggest that if anyone dares to criticise such cars and the way they are driven are in someway jealous of someone who does and has an inferiority complex of some kind "how arrogant is that" it is not he car thats the problem it is THE DRIVER and the real question is why is it that this type of driver ownes this type of car. or as we say in tyke land, "if cap fits ware the ******" NUFF SAID.
colin
sorry ken but I don't agree with you, and while I would never launch into personal attacks or poke fun at people with an ego bigger than george bush one has to draw the line somewhere.
however being a yorkshire tyke through and through I do tend to say it as it is and call a spade a spade if you like, so don't take this as personal.
we all have a back ground, in different fields fair enough one would not try to tell a dentist how to pull teeth or try to show granny how to suck eggs so to speak but your reply really does smack of arrogance in dismissing anyone with a opposing view as ignorant, naieve,or worse.
here ar some examples:-
"A few years ago I would have agreed with your argument in it's entirety, however traffic flow stats show that it is smoother and safer for both lanes in such situations, to be used to their fullest capacity right up to the pinch point.
As a result, you should be seeing fewer and fewer "Get In Lane Now" signs, however my advice is that should you happen across such a sign this summer, please follow the instruction as the authorities will have deemed that method to be most appropriate for the location",
fair comment if this was completely true, but on every road where a dual carrageway goes down to one lane there are arrows pointing to the left at 200yds 100yds and 50yds and 25 yds telling the motorist to move into the left lane as soon as possible not to continue down the right hand lane untill it dissapears at the pinch point. also at road works the signs start well up the road sometimes miles in advance informing the motorist which lane is closed and how far away and which vehicles should be in each lane if the lanes have been narrowed or altered.with intructions to GET IN LANE NOW.
you also said "It is not my arrogance that takes me down an empty lane when it is my ability to read and obey a simple instruction.. Oh and of course my working knowledge gained from many years of working our Motorways and Dual Carriageways (apologies if you perceive that too as arrogance), it's just what I've done for years.
sorry bud but that sounds arrogant to me seems to make the point that others can't read road signs or follow simple instructions.
"I could not begin to understand the financial implications of a major banking decision or the life saving decision of a surgeon saving a life in an emergency, similarly I would not expect a person that has not had a career on the roads to understand some of the decision making that goes on behind the scenes, but the signs are explicit and easy to follow".
one does not have to have a degree in civil engineering to be able to understand that the planners have got it wrong over the last few years with new road layouts the emphasis now is on traffic congestion instead of traffic flow and it is deliberate policy, in our town a new road system has just been finished instead of the old straight road with 3 junctions on it, it now has 3 round abouts and 5 sets of lights 2 of the junction are also now oneway only, making the traffic go round the new system and all the way back to get to your exit because it is impossible to cross over the road at peak times it is now chaos as 2 lanes are for buses only.
and lastly you said "On the other matter of my car, Yes I do drive a "German thingie" but it's only a Volkswagen..nice, safe, well built and an excellent towcar, but IMHO not as posh as Mercs, BMWs or Audis and certainly nothing for me to be arrogant about".
and
"One thing I am certainly not though, is jealous of anyone having a better car than me, nor do I have an inferiority complex, which is where (some of) the above comments seem to be stemming from.
this appears to suggest that if anyone dares to criticise such cars and the way they are driven are in someway jealous of someone who does and has an inferiority complex of some kind "how arrogant is that" it is not he car thats the problem it is THE DRIVER and the real question is why is it that this type of driver ownes this type of car. or as we say in tyke land, "if cap fits ware the ******" NUFF SAID.
colin
Sorry Colin, I'm with Ken on this one.If the get in lane sign is more than 800yds out, it's too bl**dy far. Using both lanes cuts down the stall time, BUT, only if they are used propery. Queueing in one lane two miles out cos some arrogant HGV driver thinks he owns the road is not the most efficient way to use the road. I say again, it it the selfish attitude of some drivers which causes the problem.
Absolutely 100% with Colin on this one.
"Merge in turn" is both fair and brilliantly simple, but too difficult for a large proportion of our road users to understand. Or maybe it just doesn`t apply to them, as getting that extra one car further ahead makes all the difference doesn`t it?
And yes, Ken, I also agree with Colin (I think this is the second time! We are usually at odds!) that your posting does come across as arrogant. Insufferably so.
"Merge in turn" is both fair and brilliantly simple, but too difficult for a large proportion of our road users to understand. Or maybe it just doesn`t apply to them, as getting that extra one car further ahead makes all the difference doesn`t it?
And yes, Ken, I also agree with Colin (I think this is the second time! We are usually at odds!) that your posting does come across as arrogant. Insufferably so.
would you not agree that there is a time when both of these systems might work depending upon the volume of traffic using the road.
If there is only 10 cars going along and some berk trys to fly down the outside to get in half way I would just put this down to bad manners rather than arrogance.
If there is only 10 cars going along and some berk trys to fly down the outside to get in half way I would just put this down to bad manners rather than arrogance.
Colin,
Being an ex-pitman I appreciate your bluntness and enjoy a bit banter myself, but all I ask is that you read my posts more carefully before criticising.
You raise 4 points of disagreement in your latest post and if I may address them in order :-
1.
In both my previous posts where I refer to "Merge In Turn" and "Use Both Lanes" signs, the points I raise are made specifically to such locations and to no other type of road layout, so in fairness you cannot make a qualified argument when using examples of normal sections of dual carriageway
returning to single carriageway, or of layouts where you are instructed to "Get In Lane".
2.
However arrogant it may sound to you, I am not going to sit like a sheep in a long queue when I have a sign alongside me telling me to use the other (usually empty) lane.
If some perceive that as arrogance, then I concede to the fact that I am arrogant and will have to come to terms with that next time I meet my psych councillor (BTW that's a joke, not me being arrogant, or if you are anti me, that's me being arrogant, not a joke) ??
3.
I fully agree that not all roads are designed as well as they could be and a good deal of them were certainly not designed to carry today's bulk of traffic, but I'm going to let you into a little secret here... It's not my fault as I'm not an analyst, designer or planner, nor do I have any influence over such matters, however if I was President of the United States (whom you liken my ego to) then I would simply pick up the phone and give Gordie the order to sort it out for you and all our problems would be solved.
4.
Yeah. arrogant and point taken, but only so far as I have to level the exact same criticism back to you my friend, as I didn't start this topic, I'm simply defending my use of a good, safe car to better protect my family and defending myself against the "tar them all with same brush" brigade, when you use the same arrogance to criticise German car users, white van man and taxis in your post !! (Don't get me started on the subject of taxis, as you'll probably find we've got more in common than you think and I'll have a rash of taxi drivers having a go.. See you are a tyke
Angus,
I don't recollect the first time we disagreed, but that's fine, that's part of the lure of such forums, where we can all (reasonably) express our views and opinions, and let's face it, if we all agreed all of the time, the posts would not be half as entertaining.
I am however a tad confused over you claiming to be 100% in full agreement with Colin, who criticises my arrogance for suggesting that people cannot read or follow simple instructions, yet you write,
" "Merge In Turn" is both fair and brilliantly simple, but too difficult for a large proportion of our road users to understand".
Apologies if that was a typo and you meant to agree with me rather than Colin, or apology withdrawn if you were showing a teeny bit of arrogance yourself, by suggesting exactly the same as I did in my earlier post.
Either way, I am in full agreement with you, surely 3 little words can't be so difficult for so many people to understand, can they ?
Enjoy your weekend gents as I'm off to open a bottle of something rouge and ponder for a while ;-)
Ken.
Being an ex-pitman I appreciate your bluntness and enjoy a bit banter myself, but all I ask is that you read my posts more carefully before criticising.
You raise 4 points of disagreement in your latest post and if I may address them in order :-
1.
In both my previous posts where I refer to "Merge In Turn" and "Use Both Lanes" signs, the points I raise are made specifically to such locations and to no other type of road layout, so in fairness you cannot make a qualified argument when using examples of normal sections of dual carriageway
returning to single carriageway, or of layouts where you are instructed to "Get In Lane".
2.
However arrogant it may sound to you, I am not going to sit like a sheep in a long queue when I have a sign alongside me telling me to use the other (usually empty) lane.
If some perceive that as arrogance, then I concede to the fact that I am arrogant and will have to come to terms with that next time I meet my psych councillor (BTW that's a joke, not me being arrogant, or if you are anti me, that's me being arrogant, not a joke) ??
3.
I fully agree that not all roads are designed as well as they could be and a good deal of them were certainly not designed to carry today's bulk of traffic, but I'm going to let you into a little secret here... It's not my fault as I'm not an analyst, designer or planner, nor do I have any influence over such matters, however if I was President of the United States (whom you liken my ego to) then I would simply pick up the phone and give Gordie the order to sort it out for you and all our problems would be solved.
4.
Yeah. arrogant and point taken, but only so far as I have to level the exact same criticism back to you my friend, as I didn't start this topic, I'm simply defending my use of a good, safe car to better protect my family and defending myself against the "tar them all with same brush" brigade, when you use the same arrogance to criticise German car users, white van man and taxis in your post !! (Don't get me started on the subject of taxis, as you'll probably find we've got more in common than you think and I'll have a rash of taxi drivers having a go.. See you are a tyke
Angus,
I don't recollect the first time we disagreed, but that's fine, that's part of the lure of such forums, where we can all (reasonably) express our views and opinions, and let's face it, if we all agreed all of the time, the posts would not be half as entertaining.
I am however a tad confused over you claiming to be 100% in full agreement with Colin, who criticises my arrogance for suggesting that people cannot read or follow simple instructions, yet you write,
" "Merge In Turn" is both fair and brilliantly simple, but too difficult for a large proportion of our road users to understand".
Apologies if that was a typo and you meant to agree with me rather than Colin, or apology withdrawn if you were showing a teeny bit of arrogance yourself, by suggesting exactly the same as I did in my earlier post.
Either way, I am in full agreement with you, surely 3 little words can't be so difficult for so many people to understand, can they ?
Enjoy your weekend gents as I'm off to open a bottle of something rouge and ponder for a while ;-)
Ken.
Good Evening all , and what a lovely Evening it is , that said , I do honestly think that KEN in his postings was fair ,succinct and tactful . He was perfectly truthful when saying what a boring unreal world it would be if we all agreed with one another . Then again I totally agree with the majority of what Colin said . So I just implore all readers to see between the lines and learn from all postings , lets be careful , we can all be wrong as well as right , we can all mis-interprit anothers writen words , but if you thoroughly read the contributions then it can help all to achieve a more ballanced conclusion . Soz dont mean to preach -- Steve .
Hate bl** dy roadworks anyway .
Hate bl** dy roadworks anyway .
Oh forget to say , thought Damiens posting about the herhum drivers brilliant , in fact copied and printed it , gave it to a work colleague ( with beamer ) to read . Not a titter or even a raised hair lip , just read and returned it . OOPS maybe touched a raw nerve , then again knowing him he may have thought it normal , smiley thingiemagig . -- Steve .
hi all
the point surely is wether one group of drivers are worse than others or is it just that general driving standards have gone down inexplicably over time and bad driving as become the norm and in some way accepable.
be your own judge on that but the plain fact is certain groups ARE worse than others, the highway code to some is just an out of
date book that can be ignored once the test has been passed and courtesy is something from a bygone age.
agree with me or not take notice that the next time some one exibits some arrogant selfish behaviour on the road it will be one of the aforementioned groups.
and to ken quote" However arrogant it may sound to you, I am not going to sit like a sheep in a long queue when I have a sign alongside me telling me to use the other (usually empty) lane.
If some perceive that as arrogance, then I concede to the fact that I am arrogant and will have to come to terms with that next time I meet my psych councillor (BTW that's a joke, not me being arrogant, or if you are anti me, that's me being arrogant, not a joke) ??.
accepted however to put this another way would you go to a bus stop, then go to the front of the queue to get on the bus ignoring others in the queue or the same thing in a supermarket checkout queue of course not, to me it is the same senario on the road.
like hgv dave I now drive for a living and see the antics of some nutters on a daily basis and can usually spot one at 400yds
and yes if I get the chance I will make it difficult for them and if in turn that makes me arrogant so be it.
colin
the point surely is wether one group of drivers are worse than others or is it just that general driving standards have gone down inexplicably over time and bad driving as become the norm and in some way accepable.
be your own judge on that but the plain fact is certain groups ARE worse than others, the highway code to some is just an out of
date book that can be ignored once the test has been passed and courtesy is something from a bygone age.
agree with me or not take notice that the next time some one exibits some arrogant selfish behaviour on the road it will be one of the aforementioned groups.
and to ken quote" However arrogant it may sound to you, I am not going to sit like a sheep in a long queue when I have a sign alongside me telling me to use the other (usually empty) lane.
If some perceive that as arrogance, then I concede to the fact that I am arrogant and will have to come to terms with that next time I meet my psych councillor (BTW that's a joke, not me being arrogant, or if you are anti me, that's me being arrogant, not a joke) ??.
accepted however to put this another way would you go to a bus stop, then go to the front of the queue to get on the bus ignoring others in the queue or the same thing in a supermarket checkout queue of course not, to me it is the same senario on the road.
like hgv dave I now drive for a living and see the antics of some nutters on a daily basis and can usually spot one at 400yds
and yes if I get the chance I will make it difficult for them and if in turn that makes me arrogant so be it.
colin
Colin,
I fully agree and my point has always been whether one group of drivers is any worse than another, that's why in my first post I intimated that it was too much of a generalisation to tar all German car drivers with the same brush, and made a comparison to likening all HGV and white van drivers to the factual examples I gave, when thankfully only the moronic minority drive in such a manner.
With hindsight that post looks as if it was a direct response to Damiens' excellent BMW post, but it was actually referring to the earlier posts.
Most HGV drivers I come across are very professional and law abiding (which is more than I can say for a lot of car drivers).
They stick to their weekly/daily drivers hours and tacho checks rarely reveal excess speeds, and I certainly would not tar them all with the same brush of the minority that flaunt the rules.
Each and every one of us will have our own perceptions of which type of driver falls into which group and those perceptions will be based on personal experiences from the roads.
With you and many others, it happens to be German car drivers, with others it is HGV drivers, and fortunately or unfortunately, I get to see the lot, right across the board and as others have correctly said on this subject, there are good and bad in all.
We'll have to agree to disagree over the "Use Both Lanes" bit as once again you're not comparing like for like.
To answer your question, No I would not dream of jumping your supermarket queue....if that was the only till open, but my argument remains, why join the long queue at one till when the till opposite is open and the operator is scratching his or her head wondering why they've got no customers ?
No doubt we both think of ourselves as experienced, safe and well trained drivers, however, it remains that my use of a lane that is signed and intended to be used is neither illegal or arrogant, however your blocking of it, is erm.......
Well as you said in an earlier post....and I quote -
"If the cap fits, wear the ******, NUFF SAID"
Ken.
I fully agree and my point has always been whether one group of drivers is any worse than another, that's why in my first post I intimated that it was too much of a generalisation to tar all German car drivers with the same brush, and made a comparison to likening all HGV and white van drivers to the factual examples I gave, when thankfully only the moronic minority drive in such a manner.
With hindsight that post looks as if it was a direct response to Damiens' excellent BMW post, but it was actually referring to the earlier posts.
Most HGV drivers I come across are very professional and law abiding (which is more than I can say for a lot of car drivers).
They stick to their weekly/daily drivers hours and tacho checks rarely reveal excess speeds, and I certainly would not tar them all with the same brush of the minority that flaunt the rules.
Each and every one of us will have our own perceptions of which type of driver falls into which group and those perceptions will be based on personal experiences from the roads.
With you and many others, it happens to be German car drivers, with others it is HGV drivers, and fortunately or unfortunately, I get to see the lot, right across the board and as others have correctly said on this subject, there are good and bad in all.
We'll have to agree to disagree over the "Use Both Lanes" bit as once again you're not comparing like for like.
To answer your question, No I would not dream of jumping your supermarket queue....if that was the only till open, but my argument remains, why join the long queue at one till when the till opposite is open and the operator is scratching his or her head wondering why they've got no customers ?
No doubt we both think of ourselves as experienced, safe and well trained drivers, however, it remains that my use of a lane that is signed and intended to be used is neither illegal or arrogant, however your blocking of it, is erm.......
Well as you said in an earlier post....and I quote -
"If the cap fits, wear the ******, NUFF SAID"
Ken.
Parksy
Moderator
I've been watching this thread since it started and I'm not going to offer my opinion other than to say, in a tongue in cheek non racist way of course, Colin, you obviously haven't caught a bus lately.
I did from Birmingham on the evening of last St Patricks day and I'm sad to say that the concept of queing and getting on a bus in turn hasn't been taught in these citizenship classes that we hear about.
It's an absolute free for all and English is a second language for the driver, never mind the passengers. I'd never have coped without the eight pints of Guinness!
I did from Birmingham on the evening of last St Patricks day and I'm sad to say that the concept of queing and getting on a bus in turn hasn't been taught in these citizenship classes that we hear about.
It's an absolute free for all and English is a second language for the driver, never mind the passengers. I'd never have coped without the eight pints of Guinness!
Parksy
Moderator
Kicking, gouging and spitting with fists knees and elbows flying whilst shouting obcenities......... and that was just the driver
hi all
actually parksy your right I have not caught a bus lately I think it was about 1987ish has it altered then ?????joke! although next year I will when I get my bus pass wooopeee.
to ken, point conceeded maybe it is too much to generalise there are probably one of two beemer drivers out there (tounge in cheek)who are quite good drivers,as I am sure there are taxi drivers(at least one)who knows what road markings and stop signs are for alas not nearly as many one would expect.
funny coincedence really because I went to work this afternoon for a couple of hours to do some missed deliveries (I dont like doing saturday runs) I was out for 3hrs and cut-up 6 times (3 taxis one audi and 2 vans) over taken on the inside 5 times (2 taxis 1 beemer 2 white vans, once while making a left hand turn (the beemer).
nearly got ran into twice once by a taxi that did not stop for a red light and once by a van than just missed rear ending the wagon on a panda crossing because he was talking on the phone, when I got back to the yard the taco read time out 2hrs 48mins the distance covered 32miles.
and that is just half a day on the road as you rightly say ken
"Each and every one of us will have our own perceptions of which type of driver falls into which group and those perceptions will be based on personal experiences from the roads".
how very true that is, and it is exactly where I am comming from.
colin
actually parksy your right I have not caught a bus lately I think it was about 1987ish has it altered then ?????joke! although next year I will when I get my bus pass wooopeee.
to ken, point conceeded maybe it is too much to generalise there are probably one of two beemer drivers out there (tounge in cheek)who are quite good drivers,as I am sure there are taxi drivers(at least one)who knows what road markings and stop signs are for alas not nearly as many one would expect.
funny coincedence really because I went to work this afternoon for a couple of hours to do some missed deliveries (I dont like doing saturday runs) I was out for 3hrs and cut-up 6 times (3 taxis one audi and 2 vans) over taken on the inside 5 times (2 taxis 1 beemer 2 white vans, once while making a left hand turn (the beemer).
nearly got ran into twice once by a taxi that did not stop for a red light and once by a van than just missed rear ending the wagon on a panda crossing because he was talking on the phone, when I got back to the yard the taco read time out 2hrs 48mins the distance covered 32miles.
and that is just half a day on the road as you rightly say ken
"Each and every one of us will have our own perceptions of which type of driver falls into which group and those perceptions will be based on personal experiences from the roads".
how very true that is, and it is exactly where I am comming from.
colin
oh and I forgot to mention the traffic warden that said unloading was not allowed on saturdays because the loading bay was used for disabled parking only. the joys of being a delivery driver what "roll on retirment"
colin
colin
Colin,
You've obviously got better trained drivers down your way as I'm still waiting to meet the one taxi driver that you refer to, or is that me generalising now....ooer ;-)
Ken.
You've obviously got better trained drivers down your way as I'm still waiting to meet the one taxi driver that you refer to, or is that me generalising now....ooer ;-)
Ken.
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