To answer the comments made by Ken, and apologies for the delay, but like others we have been away for a few days.
It is evidently now a criminal offence to photograph a policeman, immigration/customs officer, or seemingly any 'jobsworthy' that you come across in your travels. As this is classed as a terror offence the penalties can be severe. Your camera/mobile will be confiscated at the very least, and you may be prosecuted. Things have got so bad that a policeman in London confiscated the camera of a tourist for taking pictures of a London bus. Evidently it was all in the interest of preventing terrorism, so there.
As for covering idendities i also noted that balaclavas were being worn by some members as well. Did not know that was a standard police uniform these days. Don't see many of Lothian and Borders finest wearing them, but then again I have not been going to Demo's.
I agree many police are human and have known many as friends. But I think we can forget the days of Dixon of Dock Green, that is long gone. In addition the days of a 'quiet warning' have also been consigned to the dustbin of history. The official procedures they now have to go through for even a small offence undoubtedly make them often 'not bother'.
It is evidently now a criminal offence to photograph a policeman, immigration/customs officer, or seemingly any 'jobsworthy' that you come across in your travels. As this is classed as a terror offence the penalties can be severe. Your camera/mobile will be confiscated at the very least, and you may be prosecuted. Things have got so bad that a policeman in London confiscated the camera of a tourist for taking pictures of a London bus. Evidently it was all in the interest of preventing terrorism, so there.
As for covering idendities i also noted that balaclavas were being worn by some members as well. Did not know that was a standard police uniform these days. Don't see many of Lothian and Borders finest wearing them, but then again I have not been going to Demo's.
I agree many police are human and have known many as friends. But I think we can forget the days of Dixon of Dock Green, that is long gone. In addition the days of a 'quiet warning' have also been consigned to the dustbin of history. The official procedures they now have to go through for even a small offence undoubtedly make them often 'not bother'.
The balaclavas, allegedly, is for fire protection. And so as not to be recognised.
I'm going to London and photograph every red bus I see. I'm going to wear a balaclava. Ha Ha
I'm going to London and photograph every red bus I see. I'm going to wear a balaclava. Ha Ha
SL,
It's definitely not a criminal offence per se to photograph a police officer or any other jobsworth, and unless what you are doing is suspected or proved to be terror related it cannot be classed as being "a terror offence".
Quote "Your camera/mobile will be confiscated at the very least and you may be prosecuted" is a long way off 10 years in prison, and again is incorrect under normal circumstances.
And as far as having your camera confiscated for photographing a London bus - LOL.
I was in London in March and had my first 'flight' in The London Eye and I along with hundreds of other tourists had a birds eye view of London and our cameras were on the go the whole time. Those pictures and video include the Houses of Parliament, lot's of red double deckers and if I dare to say it, a few Police vehicles. Now who's going to Police that ? and that's just one attraction.
I enjoy reading your posts, which are always entertaining, and although some have a common tendency towards being anti-establishment, I have found myself in agreement with a lot of your views in the past - but scaremongering for the sake of it ??
It's definitely not a criminal offence per se to photograph a police officer or any other jobsworth, and unless what you are doing is suspected or proved to be terror related it cannot be classed as being "a terror offence".
Quote "Your camera/mobile will be confiscated at the very least and you may be prosecuted" is a long way off 10 years in prison, and again is incorrect under normal circumstances.
And as far as having your camera confiscated for photographing a London bus - LOL.
I was in London in March and had my first 'flight' in The London Eye and I along with hundreds of other tourists had a birds eye view of London and our cameras were on the go the whole time. Those pictures and video include the Houses of Parliament, lot's of red double deckers and if I dare to say it, a few Police vehicles. Now who's going to Police that ? and that's just one attraction.
I enjoy reading your posts, which are always entertaining, and although some have a common tendency towards being anti-establishment, I have found myself in agreement with a lot of your views in the past - but scaremongering for the sake of it ??
Ken,
Unfortunately, I think you are not keeping abreast of all the new Laws our glorious Government is determined to impose on us.
As far as photgraphing a Cop or anyone else please see the following
http://acomfortableplace.blogspot.com/2009/02/national-photograph-policeman-day-feb.html
As far as the bus comment is concerned please see the following
http://jonesreport.com/article/04_09/16photo.html
If I am scaremongering then there are those far above me who are equally at fault. While I accept that at the moment these are isolated incidents and are 'blown up' by the media, there is no doubt that the Laws exist and who is to say when they will be enforced more rigorously. Once a Law is on the Statute Book it is almost impossible to get it off again as politicians always state 'you never know, you know'.
Unfortunately, I think you are not keeping abreast of all the new Laws our glorious Government is determined to impose on us.
As far as photgraphing a Cop or anyone else please see the following
http://acomfortableplace.blogspot.com/2009/02/national-photograph-policeman-day-feb.html
As far as the bus comment is concerned please see the following
http://jonesreport.com/article/04_09/16photo.html
If I am scaremongering then there are those far above me who are equally at fault. While I accept that at the moment these are isolated incidents and are 'blown up' by the media, there is no doubt that the Laws exist and who is to say when they will be enforced more rigorously. Once a Law is on the Statute Book it is almost impossible to get it off again as politicians always state 'you never know, you know'.
SL,
I've had a quick look at first link and the clue is in the wording ".... useful to a person committing or preparing an act of terrorism" - (As per the first paragraph in my last response).
You surely can't have a problem with a long jail sentence on conviction in those circumstances.
The second link clarifies that the tourists were not only photographing buses, but also a bus and underground station.
Worthy of checking out in this day and age, however if it was established that they were genuine, their photos should not have been deleted.
If the facts are accurately reported, I will agree it appears to be another case of overstepping the mark, but considering the source is a retired media chappie, I will keep an open mind.
I've had a quick look at first link and the clue is in the wording ".... useful to a person committing or preparing an act of terrorism" - (As per the first paragraph in my last response).
You surely can't have a problem with a long jail sentence on conviction in those circumstances.
The second link clarifies that the tourists were not only photographing buses, but also a bus and underground station.
Worthy of checking out in this day and age, however if it was established that they were genuine, their photos should not have been deleted.
If the facts are accurately reported, I will agree it appears to be another case of overstepping the mark, but considering the source is a retired media chappie, I will keep an open mind.
The bit you did not mention is that it states 'if the policemen thinks it could be construed etc etc'. So it is your word against his/hers. As we now evidently need 42 days detention without charge I get nervous.
By the way have you ever passed through immigration at an airport recently? Have a look at the signs and Lord help you idf you decide to call the wife while you are in there.
Of course I only comment on what is in the national Press. That is always 100% true isn't it???
By the way have you ever passed through immigration at an airport recently? Have a look at the signs and Lord help you idf you decide to call the wife while you are in there.
Of course I only comment on what is in the national Press. That is always 100% true isn't it???
I'm sure Google 'Street View' have a few tube stations and red busses on their site, are they in league with the terrorists?
When are we going to stand up and be counted and do away with all this nonsense.
When are we going to stand up and be counted and do away with all this nonsense.
What worries me is when you see these old picture of the SS marching in Germany. You look at those picture then look at our police take away yellow jacket they look the same. It worries the hell out of me.
Parksy
Moderator
I always thought that they did that silly goose step thingy past that insignificant little bloke in spectacles.
They didn't have hi vis tabards either so their health and safety department were not up to much.
They didn't have hi vis tabards either so their health and safety department were not up to much.
SL,
I'm starting to get a teeny bit concerned now !
To quote you "The bit you did not mention is that it states 'if the policemen thinks it could be construed etc etc'. So it is your word against his/hers. As we now evidently need 42 days detention without charge I get nervous."
We all live under the same law but most of us don't go around worrying about it unduly and certainly don't get "nervous" about it (I hope you are winding me up). Unless of course you've got something to be nervous about ? Do we need to be ringing the new terror hotline ? - Come on 'fess up ; - )
I'm starting to get a teeny bit concerned now !
To quote you "The bit you did not mention is that it states 'if the policemen thinks it could be construed etc etc'. So it is your word against his/hers. As we now evidently need 42 days detention without charge I get nervous."
We all live under the same law but most of us don't go around worrying about it unduly and certainly don't get "nervous" about it (I hope you are winding me up). Unless of course you've got something to be nervous about ? Do we need to be ringing the new terror hotline ? - Come on 'fess up ; - )
I feel you should be concerned, but not overly so...yet. Again, what worrys me is that Laws are introduced always with the caveat that 'you have nothing to fear if you have nothing to hide'. Well, to be perfectly honest all of us have something to hide although it usually would never get anywhere near a terrorist type offence. Whether it be storing the gas cylinder in the garage..now that is a no, no or looking at the wrong web page on the Net, 'sorry, dear it came up by accident', or even overstaying the 2 hours in the supermarket car park because SWMBO wanted to look at another shop in the High Street.
All perfectly innocous, unless of course someone somewhere decides to make an issue of it. It now seems to be the case that you are not innocent until proven guilty, more the case you are guilty unless you can convince us otherwise. Sometimes can be very difficult.
No, I am not being paranoid, or at least not excessively. But we are the most spied upon nation on earth. We are the most regulated, for example just look at the proliferation of raod signs everywhere. There are probably 90% more signs telling you what you cannot do, to the 10% that tell you what you can. People are terrified of speaking out of turn in case they are accused of anything from racism to sexism to whatever 'ism. You even need to sign a register to buy a gallon of paraffin these days. I used to go to machine in the garage forecourt for the stuff.
If a Policeman came to your door what would you think? Immediately I bet you wonder to yourself 'what have I done?' Yes, I did tax the car so that is not it. 'Oh Lord, the near side tyre is a bit borderline, will he/she do me for it?' It is probably all innocent but you always assume the worst.
That is not the way it should be. Ironically those who have actually committed a crime are the least bothered because they know the punishment will be very slight, if at all. It is the innocent who are punished.
The most abused words in our language these days are 'terror', 'horror' and 'abused'. They all mean a lot, but usually mean much less when analysed. We have just had 10 people arrested on terror charges and then released without charge. What does that tell you? They are going to be deported for defaulting their visas, but will appeal which will take at least 3 years and then.... probably will be given leave to stay indefintely.
Yes, it is a mad mad world, but do we need to be the maddest of them all?
All perfectly innocous, unless of course someone somewhere decides to make an issue of it. It now seems to be the case that you are not innocent until proven guilty, more the case you are guilty unless you can convince us otherwise. Sometimes can be very difficult.
No, I am not being paranoid, or at least not excessively. But we are the most spied upon nation on earth. We are the most regulated, for example just look at the proliferation of raod signs everywhere. There are probably 90% more signs telling you what you cannot do, to the 10% that tell you what you can. People are terrified of speaking out of turn in case they are accused of anything from racism to sexism to whatever 'ism. You even need to sign a register to buy a gallon of paraffin these days. I used to go to machine in the garage forecourt for the stuff.
If a Policeman came to your door what would you think? Immediately I bet you wonder to yourself 'what have I done?' Yes, I did tax the car so that is not it. 'Oh Lord, the near side tyre is a bit borderline, will he/she do me for it?' It is probably all innocent but you always assume the worst.
That is not the way it should be. Ironically those who have actually committed a crime are the least bothered because they know the punishment will be very slight, if at all. It is the innocent who are punished.
The most abused words in our language these days are 'terror', 'horror' and 'abused'. They all mean a lot, but usually mean much less when analysed. We have just had 10 people arrested on terror charges and then released without charge. What does that tell you? They are going to be deported for defaulting their visas, but will appeal which will take at least 3 years and then.... probably will be given leave to stay indefintely.
Yes, it is a mad mad world, but do we need to be the maddest of them all?
Top post SL, good to see your geting with the the Progragm, its all about control, and the excuse is the war on terror! you no the guys in rags n sandels who we have a war without end, who said that? hmm...
SL,
I think we'll have to agree to disagree as we're poles apart on this one.
Given a choice, I would prefer those 10 arrests to be made, investigations be conducted and if required, yes release without charge, rather than the alternative of being too scared to act incase you upset some do gooder's tender soul and ending up with another atrocity on our soil.
The system is far from perfect and getting back to the OP, there are bad apples in all walks of life, not just within the Police, but if you tie their hands too tightly, you play right into the hands of those that wish to do us serious harm.
At risk of being moderated for taking over Colin's thread, I'll end with my continued support of the vast majority of our boys and girls in blue, content with my total lack of paranoia and as this remains a free country, you are entitled to your own opinion of them.
I think we'll have to agree to disagree as we're poles apart on this one.
Given a choice, I would prefer those 10 arrests to be made, investigations be conducted and if required, yes release without charge, rather than the alternative of being too scared to act incase you upset some do gooder's tender soul and ending up with another atrocity on our soil.
The system is far from perfect and getting back to the OP, there are bad apples in all walks of life, not just within the Police, but if you tie their hands too tightly, you play right into the hands of those that wish to do us serious harm.
At risk of being moderated for taking over Colin's thread, I'll end with my continued support of the vast majority of our boys and girls in blue, content with my total lack of paranoia and as this remains a free country, you are entitled to your own opinion of them.
I keep seeing this we are the most spied upon people etc.
We had two serious crimes take place on our main street Union St in Aberdeen. No one has been caught by using the CCTV system in the city centre, so they can't be spying that much.
Speed cameras only work if your breaking the Law they don't clock you for good driving !!!
If I saw a Policeman walking up to my front door I would think what has happened, some family member has been involved in an accident.
The right to protest is a dearly held Freedom,the right to Violent Disorder is Not. The only way to put down a Violent protest is by Violence, either by Tear Gas or Bullets, thankfully our Police use neither, only very rarely. I never wander around near Violent protests I keep well away as most sane people do.
I say it many times have you wrote to your MP about your concerns.
We had two serious crimes take place on our main street Union St in Aberdeen. No one has been caught by using the CCTV system in the city centre, so they can't be spying that much.
Speed cameras only work if your breaking the Law they don't clock you for good driving !!!
If I saw a Policeman walking up to my front door I would think what has happened, some family member has been involved in an accident.
The right to protest is a dearly held Freedom,the right to Violent Disorder is Not. The only way to put down a Violent protest is by Violence, either by Tear Gas or Bullets, thankfully our Police use neither, only very rarely. I never wander around near Violent protests I keep well away as most sane people do.
I say it many times have you wrote to your MP about your concerns.
Yes, I did write to my MP to express concern over a spate of hooliganism we had been suffering. He did reply and passed the concerns on to the Chief Constable. Whether it did any good I do not know, although the hooliganism has ceased, at least for a while.
I also did receive an invitation to attend the Party Conference (I will not state which party), but as lunch was not included we may decide to be absent friends.
I also did receive an invitation to attend the Party Conference (I will not state which party), but as lunch was not included we may decide to be absent friends.
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