Bulkhead Regulator Removal

[JTQ]

In part I can answer the questions; we have purchased Hymer caravans in both 2002 and 2008 and both came fitted with cylinder mounted regulators operating at 30mB and designed for use with either propane or butane.
Both have used single stage GOK regulators and neither have had regulator, pipework or appliance gumming issues. We relative to most users I am sure have burnt more gas as we rarely go on EHU and caravan throughout the year, typically 110 nights a year. So our lack of problems is not directly because we don’t use our gas.
I think that arrangement is streets ahead in logical thinking to that the NCC chose for their UK members to adopt.
Our first van operated almost exclusively on Handy Gas 11 kg propane cylinders, the later van on Flo-gas 11kg propane. Niether used Calor other than for the annual continental trips, where in recent years a Lite has been taken instead of our 11 kg cylinder..

 

[ProfJohnL]

I think that arrangement is streets ahead in logical thinking to that the NCC chose for their UK members to adopt.

Hello JTQ

First and foremost, in this case its legislation arising from the harmonisation of standards across the EU not the NCC that instruct what caravan manufacturers should do.

And that also hints to another part of your posting, Prior to harmonisation the type of gas and it's operating pressures, and other technical details were governed by national standards imposed by each member state. This meant that whilst an basic appliance type may be sold across Europe, it had to be manufactured to be specified to meet each nations legal requirements. Just for example getting product labeling right for each market was quite intricate, what might seem small details such as the spacing between characters in gas types and the type face and etc were often scruitinised. Until the product was approved to the countries standards it could not be sold there.

There were as far as I can recall possibly 6 or 7 different national standards products had to be tested and approved to which from an appliance manufacturers perspective was very expensive to repeat what were basically the same tests but to different limits or criteria.

In the EU area (prior to harmonisation) there were at least 3 different gas pressure regimes:- 28/37mb,(UK) 50mB and 30mB systems with different gas categories, so there were more than just cosmetic differences between appliances. Other national standards dictated the acceptable levels of flue products (quality of combustion), surface or working temperatures, types of materials permitted for certain jobs, Technically things like jetting and aeration were different to meet the local limits on products of combustion. Technicalities of methods and positions for installation - the list goes on.

So harmonisation has been an important milestone with regards product development and potential sales within the EU.

Traditionally the UK (and Germany) have been strong on meeting technical standards, and this is to our advantage, where as some other EU countries have not been so strict or have worked to less stringent so they will have to work harder to meet the harmonised standards.

There is a well known brand of continental derived motorhomes and caravans, who up until the 1990's were imported by an independent dealer. They were straight from the German market and were kitted out for 50mB gas and not adapted for UK systems (incidentally they did not have NCC approval). Quite a number of UK owners had problems because they changed to UK bottled gas and regulators, not realising the pressure difference. Symptoms of insufficient performance, poor or not being able to light some products lighting and flames prone to blowing out were not uncommon. Obtaining spares was also a problem, as some 50mB parts were not generally available within the UK.

So what at first may seem just a small and insignificant difference in gas pressures, could not only lead to real problems but also actually be the difference between whats legal and whats not.

The issue is rather like the debate on speed/speeding and safety.

 

[RogerL]

EU harmonisation is a joke - mains electricity is "harmonised" throughout Europe at 230v isn't it ?
Well no actually, the range of tolerance either side of 230v allows each European country to carry on unchanged, anywhere between 216v and 253v - the UK has always been 240v nominal, 225-255v and will continue to be that for the foreseeable future - it's a change of name to 230v not a change of electricity supply.
There's absolutely no standardisation in plugs/sockets either.
I've never seen any reasoned justification that changing from 28mbar butane and 37mbar propane to 30mbar for both had any technical merit.

 

[Damian]

Quote " I've never seen any reasoned justification that changing from 28mbar butane and 37mbar propane to 30mbar for both had any technical merit."

It matters not whether you or I , or anyone else, sees reasoned justification or not, we are stuck with it, like it or not.

 

[ProfJohnL]

I've never seen any reasoned justification that changing from 28mbar butane and 37mbar propane to 30mbar for both had any technical merit.

There is technical reason but its driving force comes from the commercial sector. The EU is supposed to be a commercial level playing field, since harmonisation, a gas appliance (CE approved) can be sold anywhere in the EU and will work with the harmoniased gas supply. The same reasoning exsists for electrical appliances.

I don't argue that the harmonised standards neccesarily represent any improvement in safety or performance, ( in some cases it does though) but it does simpilyfy the manufactures task of producing appliances and getting EU wide approval.

 

[RogerL]

The two responses above from Damian and John highlight what many people feel is wrong about the EU - change that's detrimental to the public interest just because one sector, the "trade" in this case gains commercial benefit by supplying new equipment.
It's no wonder that manufacturers are held in such low regard.

 

[Damian]

Roger, I think the whole EU thing is wrong.
Wrong for every reason anyone can find.
Wrong as it is a farce
Wrong as it does more harm than good
Wrong as it is a gravy train for useless politicians.

 

[pepperpot]

Hi All, As RogerL has stated,its the suppliers who benefit as i for one can testify to that. my wife and i bought a new caravan in 2008 and to date we have had 4 regulators fitted (including the one that the new caravan came with). There were 3 blockages and 1 leakage, the leaking 1 was replaced free of charge as it was considered a fault with the regulator,but the blocked 3 we had to pay for and they are not cheap.When you take into account the ammount of time we have used the gas appliances over the 4 summers we have been using the caravan its proving to be an expensive issue.

 

[Damian]

Pepperpot, the answer is simple, do NOT replace with a GOK regulator, insist on a Clesse if you have another failure.