Bullies

[Auvergne]

I am absolutely gobsmacked and wounded by proxy, hence I'm turning to the healing properties of the mightly Practical Caravan Forum......

My better half received an extremely unpleasant, personally derogatory email tonight from his boss which in essence ended up "ring me on Monday, if I speak to you now I may say something we would both regret". How unprofessional, hurtful and unnecessary. What makes people act in this way? Why patronise and humiliate people before giving them the opportunity to discuss whats gone wrong? I worked many years for one of the big four banks, no management would never have been able to write in such a way. Where has it all gone so wrong?

Do you think that society is turning into a nation of bullies or is it just here in the South East where its a dog eat dog world and it appears people just sh*t on anyone and everyone to get where they want to be? It seems nowadays loyalty and friendship count for nothing - only three weeks ago they were going to a football match together, have never had a cross word in six years! Anger seems to permeate to the very core of people right now, I know we are in a recession and he works in sales but for goodness sake, does nobody have an element of moral fibre in their bodies anymore?

I am mortified. Thanks for listening.

Val.

 

[ShadySadie]

Sounds like hubby has the start of grounds for a legal case of constructive dismissal and a big slice of compensation.

The email will be sure to breach good managerial practice. Take a look at the ACAS web site and note down the rules of good management the boss has broken.

A little lesson on good managerial practice and compensation and I think they will soon be pals again.

Hubby should keep a diary with times and dates and notes on mistakes and any rude or untoward comments made by his boss, just in case!

 

[Gordon_374469888]

Val

Without knowing details I clearly can't guess background or content of e-mail. Also as this is the first forum I've joined I don't know if I'm sticking my oar in. If so please ignore. However, in my experience people tend to act up in the workplace when they are under pressure, struggling or unqualified to deal with their own responsibilities.

If their character is a little weak the easiest thing for them is to take it our on someone else or pass the problem on. Without knowing the background it is difficult to suggest best way forward. But if boss is usually friend I would send e-mail back and in a professional, impersonal tone ask him to read it back and consider whether he thinks it fair and appropriate.

This will give boss chance to reflect and reconsider. It is difficult to escalate to legal action if you are not prepared to leave a job. The idea of taking legal action and then returning to work as if nothing has happened is a little unrealistic.

If this is unsuccessful suggest a chat with an impartial colleague and if necessary HR dept.

Sorry if none of my business.

 

[Auvergne]

Thanks to you both for your comments. Legal action is not even in the equation at the moment, nowhere near, I just can't get my head around this, its just unbelievable what goes on in the workplace nowadays... hence I'm drowning in a bottle of Pinot Grigio so ignore ramblings! Yes, its hard to comment without seeing the email but I can say in all honesty, my better half is as shocked as I am. This arrived totally out of the blue,and unwarranted. Him indoors is very "I'll ring him first thing Monday and see if he's got time to talk it through", I am more of "how very bloody dare you!".

The nearest I've ever got to bullying is seeing schoolkids wipe their bogeys on others shoebags, I'm just not used to it thankfully. Only a small outfit so no HR or appraisal system in place - seems they can do what they like. Time for the voodoo doll, got to find one as fat as a pig with a bald head.....

 

[ShadySadie]

"a lesson"

not actually taking legal action at this stage of the game!

If the boss is made aware of what is good managerial practice and that the empoyers could ultimately be subject to legal action.

That should hopefuly stop a repeat episode.

 

[MichaelE]

Beware on the constructive dismissal route,I had big problems with my job at the beginning of the year,i was being made to sign a new employment contract or lose my job can they do this "no" they cant hence the case,spent good money on an employment lawyer and i had a case but the best i would get out of a constructive dimissal case if i won(the company was using the change in the business model to meet the change in the market) was up to 6 months pay and i would also have to pay costs,he also added that you would have a constructive dismissal case on your records not good in this climate.

What did i do bend over and take in order to keep my job.

I have applied for another job along with 458 others!

 

[Auvergne]

Hi Michael E,

You sound like too good a man - bend over and take (in the analogy it was intended) LMAO!! Same thought pattern as my man methinks! I am more of an explosion and regret the fall out person....... I'm still really hacked off. Can't believe your job applications, I know its bad, but surely??

 

[forestgump]

an e mail is not in hand in wrtgingisthe way you have recived

the message via e mail thismust be constructive dismisal he needs a valid case fore his exit if none is aparent its not valid

 

[colin-yorkshire]

hi all.

unfortunatly e-mails like this one and text messages telling people that there is no job to go to on monday are a sign of the times am afraid, modern managment structures where the dross rises to the top are common place, the carrot and stick style (without any carrots) of upper managment to anybody lower is their way to keep the status quo it is no fun being on the recieving end but is only to be expected.

dont forget the boss never makes misstakes it is always someone else lower down that cannot follow instructions, and if he/she wakes up one morning with a headache everybody else has one by the end of the same day.

the only way to treat such bosses is with the contempt they deserve it may and probably will make things worse in the short term but long term once they are aware that you will not take all the S**t thrown at you that you will gain a modicum of respect in the work place, Well it worked for me anyway.

after doing one night shift while working as a quality control supervisor the operations director rang me at 10am getting me out of bed I had only been home 2 hrs (after doing a 14hr shift) to complain that production was down because of a decision I had made during my shift and demanded an explanation, I told him I was no longer at work and he had got me out of bed and if he had bothered to read my end of shift report he would know exactly why the production was down. but he insisted on hearing it from me directly so I told him.

the next night at about 2.30am we had the same problem so I rang him at home to ask what he wanted me to do, he went ballistic do you know what time it is, you have got me out of bed why can't it wait untill tomorrow ect,

to which I replied well it could if it was left to me but seeing as how it was the same problem he would obviously want to know so he could take the decisions for himself. but you have got me out of bed?? I know I said "just like you did yesterday morning"

he never rang me at home or questioned any of my decisions after that.

colin

 

[MichaelE]

I hope your head is ok?

From the job searching i have done so far it is far better to be in work than not,the employer has the upper hand im afraid.

Im a certified network engineer and the salary now for my line of work is 30% less now than 2 years ago.

It seems if people are out of work they are happy to take a lower salary than none at all.

Im not flexible now,i use to put myself forward for working abroad but since my new contract says i dont get paid extra im always busy with other stuff.

My manager talks to me and gives me the sob story that it is really important and he hasnt anyone else to go etc,but i say due to family committments sorry i cant do it,do i feel guilty NO not now i dont.

At the end of the day you work to live not live to work!

 

[EmmaM]

When your feeling down and lost a little faith in humanity.

Your caravaning friends hold out their hands and give you a big hug.

A glass of wine optional

Em xx

 

[colin-yorkshire]

Michael E

"Im a certified network engineer and the salary now for my line of work is 30% less now than 2 years ago".

only 30% less man are you lucky. I went down from 32k a year down to a minimum wage after redundancy, I have now retired early and earn exactly er NOTHING. cant sign on for JSA as I have no intention of getting a job, can,t get my pension not old enough.

but you know what it is the best move I ever made no more bosses in short trousers telling you how to do something you have been doing before they was even born.

as I said in my last post let the boss know you won't take the do do stand up for yourselves it is the only way to beat the bullies at work.

 

[MichaelE]

Colin i am sorry you are have lost your job as i am with anyone who has.

I was purely stating that the employer has the upper hand and because of the fear of losing your job they can push you a little further.

 

[xtrailman]

Valerie

Unfortunately your husband works in sales, this usually requires targets to be met, failure to sell often results in a move or dismissal.

My son in law works for Mercedes, he has had intense pressure to increase sales, and was put through the first letter warning stage.

Happily he has turned things around, his reward? a very good salary.

I hope your better half does the same.

 

[colin-yorkshire]

michael, I hear what you are saying the very fact that as you say "the bosses have the upperhand because of the fear of losing your job" this is the very reason that the bullies get away with it. because people are prepared to bend over and take it, what I am saying is you don't have to.

I did not lose my job because I stood up to them, I lost my job because a rival company bought us out and closed the plant making everybody redundant including all the directors.

oh and before I go remember the operations director I talked about well the last time I saw him he was a traffic warden. says a lot that don't it.

 

[MichaelE]

If only it was as easy as that Colin,i tried to stand up and i offered other solutions to their proposed problems,my reward was to be put on 21 day consultation,i left it 3 days then signed the contract,why because i still need a job and my redunancy was the mimimum which wouldnt have helped also didnt feel confident about finding one straight away ,always better to try and find a job whilst employed if you can.

 

[Parksy]

I've just seen Val's post and I have to say that if I was the recipient of an email from a boss which contained personal insult I'd make a copy of it and insist on a face to face meeting to discuss the reasons why this person imagined it was ok to deliver threats and insults via email.

I don't know the circumstances behind this but it would be best if Val's o/h remained calm and had a witness present but made it crystal clear that personal insult is not acceptable whatever the circumstances behind the email.

Bullying is always best nipped in the bud before the bully starts to believe that the way to get the desired result is to insult or humiliate subordinates as a matter of routine.

It's best to get that issue out of the way and dealt with before any genuine work related issues can be discussed reasonably and calmly.

 

[Guest]

I'm so pleased to see that you are all such reasonable people most here sound to me like dream employees for bullies.

Bullies trade on the weak, a position of strength is the best answer.

Knowing your rights and what is good management is a good move and the TUC can also be a good place to start http://www.tuc.org.uk/tuc/rights_bullyatwork.cfm

 

[MichaelE]

Euro is your answer to join a union?

 

[colin-yorkshire]

hi all

parksy you have hit the nail right on the head, at the first sign of bullying stand up and get it sorted or it will get worse and go on and on when the boss realises he/she can get away with it.

don't forget you spend between 1/3 to 1/2 of your life at work (depending on your job) so why spend all this time miserable cowering in a corner waiting for the next round of abuse to start, it also reflects badly on the rest of your time away from work the inibility to switch off when you get home insommnia and the bad moods reflects badly on the others around you. e-mails and text messages as well as phone calls outside of work are bang out of order.

and micheal if there is a union yes join it, most unions these days are a pale shadow of what they were 20years ago (thatcher saw to that) but they do have good industrial lawyers on hand for free should the worsed happen, plus any organisation that has union representation will most definitly have a code of conduct in place and a grievence procedure that you can use.

colin

 

[Auvergne]

Hi All,

Just thought I'd write with an update. Hubby was on the phone first thing to his boss (he works from home) re the email on Friday. I understand the boss was more amenable today and they both agreed to draw a line under it. Apparently a comment made by my husband with regard to monitoring time was perceived as "aggressive". In essence he had said "blimey, we'll have to specify a time for doing a pee soon!"

I understand the boss said he had been under extreme pressure and had snapped for which he apologised. He also explained he had a couple of issues causing concern in his private life.

Anyway, a lesson learned for all I guess, but for a person like me who worries about such things I am looking at the boss through different eyes now, I know what he's capable of.

 

[Parksy]

I'm glad that things have been sorted out Valerie.

Comments via email can often be misinterpreted and it can be all too easy to appear be antagonistic or insulting when not dealing directly with colleagues face to face.

Hopefully the boss will think first before causing upset and casting a blight over your weekend by taking his personal problems out on those around him in future.

 

[Guest]

I hope your head is ok?

From the job searching i have done so far it is far better to be in work than not,the employer has the upper hand im afraid.

Im a certified network engineer and the salary now for my line of work is 30% less now than 2 years ago.

It seems if people are out of work they are happy to take a lower salary than none at all.

Im not flexible now,i use to put myself forward for working abroad but since my new contract says i dont get paid extra im always busy with other stuff.

My manager talks to me and gives me the sob story that it is really important and he hasnt anyone else to go etc,but i say due to family committments sorry i cant do it,do i feel guilty NO not now i dont.

At the end of the day you work to live not live to work!

dob