Butane vs Propane

[rob_jax]

No I don't think your lucky, rather you've observed an underlying physical property - the difference in heat output between Butane and propane is quite significant - it's at least 13% - that's like getting one day free each week...

Robert

 

[Danny_5134221]

Another factor to consider in this debate is the colour of the bottle, if you like blue get butane, if you dont like blue get propane, if you dont like blue or orange get BP gas light which is green ( I think ), dont know what the gas is, but the bottle might look better or just dont use gas and microwave everything, as long as you stay on sites with electric hookup. If you dont then you are completely knackered.

 

[JTS]

Danny.

Of course Danny, you have hit it right on the head and why didn't some one think of it before. What the hell has what gas is in the bottle, its all to do with the colour of the bottle. Danny you are a genius, I wish I had thought of it and I bet the others wish they had as well. As you say, you have a good choice of colours, Blue/Red/Green/Yellow, I'm sure there are more. If you don't like the colours available you could always paint your bottle your favourate colour (might not be legal - someone will tell us). The other thing that has not come up on this thread, all those who are worried about their noseweight could have an empty bottle or even two in their locker and just pretend they have gas. A couple of things you over looked, you could try a can of sand in the awning soaked in petrol to cook on or light a fire between your pitch and the next pitch, your neighbours may be over the moon and join in. I hope they don't leave it all to you Danny and come up with a few more solutions to this problem.

Good luck.

JTS.

 

[Danny_5134221]

No need to get personal JTS whoever you are, it is only a bit of humour, must of had yours removed.

 

[JTS]

Danny.

I think you may have grabbed the wrong end of the stick and if for some reason I have offended you I apologise.

You see my post was intended to be with you. As you say a little humour.

Regards.

JTS.

 

[Legsmaniac_374344731]

Hehehe. Relax Danny, JTS is just having a laugh. No, I don't know who JTS is either but even I could see he was on your side yet having a dig at us over the gas. Maybe it was because rob_jax was in agreement with me that Butane does indeed burn hotter and lasts longer and JTS hates to be proven wrong. LMAO! 13% is nothing to be snuffed at is it!! LOL Only joshin', JTS! ;-)

Seriously, nose-weight is an important consideration but I doubt 1 or 2 kilos is going to break the bank for most of us. I'm OK anyway nose-weight-wise.

I know of a couple of caravanners who use only Butane all year round without any problems. They lag their Butane bottles and manage to get away with it. It does seem there's far more Propane users though so maybe they ought to try Butane. They might just be surprised at the difference. Especially those with inefficient fridges and fires.

 

[JTS]

Legsmaniac.

"JTS hates to be proven wrong".

Thanks mate for your comments, except the above. I do know that butane burns hotter than propane and I do not think I have disputed that. It was a lighthearted dig, a bit of fun and like most things in life, what type of gas people use is up to them, who am I to argue. My personal point is the fact that I use propane and, like most caravanners,I think, use one gas all year round and could not bothher using two types. I know quite a few caravanners who use butane all year although some have now changed to gain the advantage of the lightweight bottle.

Keep gassing, Good luck .

JTS.

 

[Tony-Porthcawl]

Hi

We caravan all the year round and use propane all the year round,why go throught the hassle of carring 2 different bottles.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Lagging gas bottles is not a good idea!

Most of us will have seen that when a bottle of LPG is used, the bottom portion of the bottle often has condensation that shows how much liquid remains. The reason for this is that when gas is drawn from a bottle, temperature of the bottle drops. The bottle is then cooler than the surrounding air and condensation starts to form. This only occurs when gas is taken out.

The bottle temperature drops because the body of the LPG, uses some latent heat from the bottle and its contents to boil some more liquid to replace the gas vapour that has been drawn off. The bottle relies on access to external heat to replace the latent heat used.

If gas usage is continued and the bottle cannot get enough external heat energy, it will reduce the rate at which it boils off vapour, and eventually the boil off rate drops below the draw off rate and it stops being an effective gas supply.

The temperature at which the LPG boils is determined by the composition of the gas. There are in fact many different types of LPG but the two most commonly commercially used ones are Butane and Propane. Butane boils at about -4C, and Propane at about -40C, but the temperatures for any useful gas take off rate are closer to 0C and -36C respectively.

Bearing in mind that the gas bottle self cools, then you can hopefully see that you need air temperatures a few degrees above these levels to maintain an adequate gas supply. So for butane you may experience supply difficulties in air temperatures below about 5C and for propane below -30C.

Large bottles of Propane are favoured by roofers, and road surfacers, and you can see that some of their bottles when I use actually have frost on around the liquid level. You might actually measure temperatures of about -25C. Butane would have simply given up the ghost at about +10C or more with such hight gas take off rates.

Anything that restricts the transfer of heat from the air to the bottle like lagging will raise the temperature threshold at which LPG may become ineffective.

That is why gas bottle lockers have massive ventilation capability, and of course it also helps to dissipate any gas leaks reducing the risk of an explosive mixture being formed.

This property of liquefiable gasses is used to cool fridges.

 

[BalintoreBoy]

sorry to sound like a techno dork but can you put butane or propane through the same pipes no need to change jets in cooker etc. iam going up to the highlands at new year and want to have plenty of heat!! thanks for any advice.

 

[Legsmaniac_374344731]

"why go through the hassle of carrying 2 different bottles."

Exactly why is it a "hassle"? I have 1 Butane and 1 Propane and it's no hassle.

I use Butane all the time until it runs out or it's too cold to work well in which case, into the locker, switch off Butane, move changeover to Propane and turn on Propane. If the Butane ran out, replace it, switch off Propane, move changeover back to Butane and turn on Butane.

No hassle.

 

[Damian]

Andrew, it dos not matter which gas is passed through the pipe and no, you do not have to change jets on anything.

What you do have though is two different connectors.

If your van is pre 2004 and has the cylinder mounted regulator, the it will be a blue 28mb reg for Butane with a large nut on one end which fits on the outlet of the Butane cylinder (or a clip on type if you have the adaptor and push fit cylinders.

Propane operates at 37mb from a cylinder mounted regulator and is Red in colour with a bull nose fitting which fits in the outlet of the Propane regulator.

If your van is 2004 and later you will have a bulkhead mounted regulator which delivers gas at 30mb for both gasses, but you wil need the correct pigtails for each gas and if you carry both , and change gas, also change the pigtail.

If you are going to the Highlands it would make sense just to use Propane which will cope with all eventualities.

 

[JulieandStuart]

We never really thought that our rather 'newbie' query would draw such a wide variety of rich and diverse comment - from which, we have to admit, has both entertained and educated us in probably equal measures.

If we were to take any real practical advice from all we have read and subsequently researched then that is to (irrespective of gas type chosen) install a changeover system such that we are no longer faced with using 'torch and spanner' in the dead of night to ensure continuation of our gas supply.

We will definately be investigating the Gaslow manual changeover system - in our case probably for our two Butane bottles. (With more winter experience we may then look at the Propane option - but not for now).

Guys, we have learned so much from your counter comments - please continue to voice your opinions forcefully, please do

Julie & Stuart

 

[Mikey1]

Hi if you fit a Gaslow Automatic changeover valve you can have a mix of gas types ie propane,butane and camping gas.

The good thing about this valve is it changes over when the cylinder is empty.

I use Butane as much as poss due to getting more gas for your money.

 

[alaintaylor]

Hi Julie & Stuart

I'm amazed too, and, mostly, what a load of clap trap!!!!

I've caravaned for 40 years (all year round), 38 yrs carrying butane and propane and lately changed over to two BP Lite cylinders (propane) on a bulkhead regulator. So much easier, no comparison, it is absolutely crazy anyone trying to defend anything else. It's true that propane (BP Lite) on a 30mb regulator does not burn as hot as butane at 28mb or propane at 37mb, but everything works OK - except my BBQ as it needs max heat to cook a good steak. I run my BBQ from one of the BP Lites using a 37mb regulator and a seperate hose.

Simple as that!

Alan

 

[alunhve]

I have found this debate interesting as recent years have seen me caravanning in December and February as my holidays are on a rotating roster basis where within a week I could work out when I will be on holiday for the next seven years.

I have continued to use butane and so far it has never completely failed to function but has been difficult to get going in terms of oven and grill when it has been extremely cold.

Have been considering getting a BP cylinder for a combination of nose weight and cold weather performance but have held back partly because of not being sure how readily it would fit in the front locker of my Senator Arizona Series 5 but also because of the increasing number of spare gas bottles (because of my failure to transfer a gas bottle from the BBQ to the caravan before setting off on one holiday I already have 3 Calor 7.5 Butane,a 4.5 Calor Butane from when we had the Trailer Tent, and a french Butane 'Cube' from when we were going to France on a regular basis) as from what is being said I may need to have a second BP bottle to allow the automatic changeover to function as I suspect it does not operate on a break before make basis.

Alun

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hi Julie & Stuart

I'm amazed too, and, mostly, what a load of clap trap!!!!

I've caravaned for 40 years (all year round), 38 yrs carrying butane and propane and lately changed over to two BP Lite cylinders (propane) on a bulkhead regulator. So much easier, no comparison, it is absolutely crazy anyone trying to defend anything else. It's true that propane (BP Lite) on a 30mb regulator does not burn as hot as butane at 28mb or propane at 37mb, but everything works OK - except my BBQ as it needs max heat to cook a good steak. I run my BBQ from one of the BP Lites using a 37mb regulator and a seperate hose.

Simple as that!

Alan

Alan

Can you be more specific about what you consider to be 'Clap Trap'.

 

[rob_jax]

Hi Alun,

If you have spare, empty Calor bottles - then I'd suggest selling them via eBay - they have a value of around

 

[ProfJohnL]

Legally you do not own a Calor Gas Bottle you are only renting it. You cannot then lawfully sell it.

 

[rob_jax]

You are of course right John - maybe I should have chosen my words more carefully - and substituted recycle for sell.

 

[Gafferbill]

I use Calor propane exclusively winter or summer,UK or Europe.

Why?

Because I like the Orange colour!!!

 

[gary]

Rob & John, Depends if the bottle is actually being sold and not passed on free, any monies gained though the transaction could deemed recouping part of the otherwise non-returnable deposit!

 

[ProfJohnL]

Rob & John, Depends if the bottle is actually being sold and not passed on free, any monies gained though the transaction could deemed recouping part of the otherwise non-returnable deposit!

Ah, but that is not selling the bottle! you selling on the rental liability.

I'm being pedantic here, but as you do not own the bottle you have no title, therefore you have no ownership or authority to sell it.

Technically if you did 'Sell' the bottle you could be done for fraud.