Calling it a day on Caravaning

[Stephen_374341239]

Hi All as I posted

My Bailey Ranger 460/4 went in for its 2nd service as from New.

Bad news Damp in each corner top/front of caravan. The chap who did the damp test said these tend to suffer with damp in the corners at the top were the roof seals are. I wish i had known this before purching the caravan. I know its under warranty but it should not be getting damp just yet.

We now have sold the Bailey 460/4 caravan back to the dealer and after 21 years of caavaning we are giving up. Due to High cost.

servicing. insurance, pitch fees which have gone up through the roof,Health & safty on pitchs packing in vans so close if there was a fire you would not stand a chance. It was once a lovely hobby and we have met some lovely people and had great times. BUT gread now has come into play and things will never be the same.

Wishing you all happy Caravaning for the new year and all the Best.

Kind Regard best wishes Steve& Janet

 

[Royston]

Hi Stephen, Sorry to hear that you have decided to pack in caravanning, as per your other post you have read my any other people comments, I too felt like packing it all in , when my460/4 suffered the same fate as yours,never in the past have I ever encounted the problems that are now facing the caravanning public with the crap designs of the modern caravan.

My previous caravan to the 460/4 was a bailey Imperial with the old fashioned metal roof that was joined to the front and rear panels, we had that 8 years the only problem we had was the fridge failed, after 7 years,Had we realised the major faults within the new design, we would never had sold our Imperial and saved one hell of lot of hard earnt cash.I have purchased a secondhand pre 2006 van to allow me to carry on.

Royston

 

[paulthomas]

Steve and Janet,

Really sorry to hear you are giving up.I can understand your reasons but I genuinely believe I would find it difficult to find alternative ways of holidaying that would still be as much fun,as sociable,or which would give us such freedom-and all within such a RELATIVELY low budget.But we are all different.

Best of luck in whatever you choose to do next.

Paul

 

[Parksy]

I'm sorry to learn that you will no longer be caravanning Stephen, I agree that pitch prices have in some cases gone up but there are still bargain breaks to be found and pitches on quieter 5 caravan sites are less expensive.

Servicing is a major cost and your problem highlights the fact that regular servicing does nothing to prevent damp or water ingress on caravans but simply detects the problem.

We don't hear about many caravan site fires with caravanners becoming casualties thankfully and sites which pack caravans in so that they are too close for comfort are easily avoided, we just hitch up and leave.

There is no reason why you shouldn't continue to post on the forum, who knows you might one day change your mind and become a caravan owner once again.

You can still share knowledge gained during the past 21 years so we hope that you continue to look in to this forum whenever you want to.

 

[Stephen_374341239]

I'm sorry to learn that you will no longer be caravanning Stephen, I agree that pitch prices have in some cases gone up but there are still bargain breaks to be found and pitches on quieter 5 caravan sites are less expensive.

Servicing is a major cost and your problem highlights the fact that regular servicing does nothing to prevent damp or water ingress on caravans but simply detects the problem.

We don't hear about many caravan site fires with caravanners becoming casualties thankfully and sites which pack caravans in so that they are too close for comfort are easily avoided, we just hitch up and leave.

There is no reason why you shouldn't continue to post on the forum, who knows you might one day change your mind and become a caravan owner once again.

You can still share knowledge gained during the past 21 years so we hope that you continue to look in to this forum whenever you want to.

Many thanks Parksy

We may just pop on the forum from time to time.

Janet & Steve

 

[thursdays child]

Steve and Janet,I am so sorry that you are giving up your caravan.It really is time the DAMP issues are dealt with or the industry will eventually cease to exist. For goodness sake they have put men on the moon and put the future in a museum(CONCORDE).It cant be too difficult to make a damp free caravan surely. They will of course play the COSTS card but it is not good economic sense to continue with a compromised product. We are not all in a position to write off such a major investment.To say nothing about the stress caused to peoples lives.Never mind about filling vans up with gizmos get back to the drawing board and make one that lasts a reasonable time.

Enjoy your lives from now on and "HAVE A HAPPY CHRISTMAS"

Thursdays Child

 

[Oldsalt49]

Stephen & Janet,

It's sad to read your decision to give up caravanning. We have just come back to it after an 8 year sabbatical. We had the misguided belief that there were better alternatives, there really isn't. We have done the air trips abroad, the static van holidays, the hotel holidays. But in all honesty, nothing beats your own little home from home. Its clean because you clean it to your standards, there's a different view from the windows everyday if you want. For every 1 bad caravan neighbour there is at least 10 good ones. I agree about cost, especially UK sites, they just pile on the extra costs, you pay for a pitch space, why do you have to pay extra for an awning? I would love to have you pitched next to me if you came back to it again!

Good luck with your new interest, I hope you will get the same enjoyment from it?

Regards

David & Linda

 

[Guest]

Stephen,

Like others I am sorry you are giving up the hobby, but I can share your concerns. Buying an item that fails after such a short time is gut wrenching, especially as it is unlikely you will see a full return even from resale. Unfortunately, there seems to be quite a lot of reports similar to yours and it also seems that Bailey appears regularly in the 'complaints' column. Possibly that Company could devote more energy to ensuring its products are fit for purpose, rather than indulging in realms of new development, which may or may not work. Haymarket could of course in their position of 'leading magazine', advise Bailey of the shortcomings being mentioned, but then again the thought of all that advertising revenue p[ossibly being 'lost' may colour that thought process. However, wouldn't it be nice to hear the editor has had a 'heart to heart' with any of the manufacturers and discussed many of the issues outlined in this Forum. If he has done, then possibly he could enlighten us all of the outcome. I maybe being unfair as I have not actually bought the magazine of late. However, Bailey are not alone in this regard and it seems that if you really want a van that will last almost 'for ever' then the upmarket German models seems to fit the bill. Eriba Hymer owners will tell you that production of their vans has regretably ceased in France because the existing ones last too long, and owners keep 'em for ever. So maybe Bailey are playing the other game, however I do not know the 'ins and outs'. .

I do share your comments regarding fixed costs and the desirability of some of the sites. Being stuck in sometimes what appears to be a large car park is not always a lot of fun, and paying sometimes up to

 

[marlot]

We also nearly gave up when we found damp in our 2 year old caravan - especially as Bailey couldn't fix it for 6 months. Even a small request of a replacement chopping board (the old one had expanded with damp and gone smelly during the six month wait) were turned down. In some ways the caravan was a delight on its return, but in others a disappointment - there were screws left in it (some trampled into the floor), a screw embedded in the jockey wheel, the heater top was broken and a small dent in the external caravan wall.

I looked at other manufacturers but decided they weren't materially better. So at the moment we're sticking with the Bailey, and not sure we'll be in the market for a new caravan again.

 

[DeliDave]

Timothy,many of these problems are down to poor dealer service,for instance we use Golden Castle and they have ordered warranty parts after a phonecall and allowed us to return the faulty parts,warped chopping boards were a well documented problem resulting in the plastic ones now fitted.It sounds possible that the dealer just couldnt be bothered to pursue your claims

 

[forestgump]

dont stop just get ridd of the bailey

 

[marlot]

As I said, "I looked at other manufacturers but decided they weren't materially better".

Maybe when the Pegasus has had time to prove itself.

 

[hogrider56]

Like you, I have come to the conclusion that this year will be my last with the caravan. I've not had problems thankfully with damp or expensive repairs, but I have seen a marked decline in things since I started with a van, only 10 years ago. Mere indifference from people I can accept, but the last two years have shown outright hostility and rudeness from other caravanners, and wardens of sites. I have really had enough of it, and it has come to a point where I would rather make any excuses and stay at home rather than go out with the van...time to flog it!

 

[NigelHutson]

In 2004 we changed our caravan. At the time we were considering either an Abbey GTS416 or the Bailey Senator Arizona. When I asked my dealer (who sold both bransd and is a friend as well as business associate) which had the most problems, he answered "they're both on a par because what's fitted in one is fitted in the other. But, when you trade in in five years time, the way you look after them, the Abbey will still be like new, but a Bailey will look like it's had several years hard life". We went for the Abbey, and yes, when we traded in earlier this year it was still in excellent condition despite being used a lot. It was sold within a few days of us taking it in.

It is MY OPINION that Baileys in particular are very much built down to a budget. The top models have all the toys, but they're so bland and cheap feeling inside and out. Sorry to all you Bailey fans, but that is how I feel.

Sadly, I too am thinking of giving up a hobby that I am passionate about. We traded the trusty Abbey in for a brand new Lunar Lexon SE. There is so much to like about the 'van, but there's not been a time that we've used it when something hasn't either fallen off or gone wrong. Indeed, it's just come back to us from the factory (it's already had visits to the dealer!) and only some of the problems have been sorted. So disgruntled with the Lunar after only four months, we went to the NEC show in October to look at the Coachman Pastiche version. What a pig's ear that was!

It would appear that none of the manufacturers can design and build a caravan that ticks all the boxes, arrives as and when it should, and will last even the warranty period without problems.

The final straw is the Caravan Club's rediculous booking system and the selfish members booking one day of every weekend at a site that they probably have no intention of using!

There's also a fantasy that the German 'vans are that much better. Take off the rose coloured glasses and have a good look. I will accept that possibly (although I've not seen any hard evidence) that they don't suffer the ingress as UK ones do, but the internal quality of a lot really does leave a lot to be desired.

I'm off to sit in a darkened room and will await the bombardment from Bailey fans!

 

[Jimbob1]

Hi Everyone,

I am always very sorry to hear of people packing up caravanning because it is a great hobby and in the 34years we have been caravanning we've meet some smashing people.However we have have had 6 caravans and we have never bought a new one for the simple reason being that we usually buy one about 18months old and by then most of the faults if any have been sorted,and YES we are Bailey fans we have a Bailey Pageant "Champagne"which we are very happy with.

A Very Happy Christmas to you all Jim&Kathy(Jimbob)

 

[paulthomas]

In 2004 we changed our caravan. At the time we were considering either an Abbey GTS416 or the Bailey Senator Arizona. When I asked my dealer (who sold both bransd and is a friend as well as business associate) which had the most problems, he answered "they're both on a par because what's fitted in one is fitted in the other. But, when you trade in in five years time, the way you look after them, the Abbey will still be like new, but a Bailey will look like it's had several years hard life". We went for the Abbey, and yes, when we traded in earlier this year it was still in excellent condition despite being used a lot. It was sold within a few days of us taking it in.

It is MY OPINION that Baileys in particular are very much built down to a budget. The top models have all the toys, but they're so bland and cheap feeling inside and out. Sorry to all you Bailey fans, but that is how I feel.

Sadly, I too am thinking of giving up a hobby that I am passionate about. We traded the trusty Abbey in for a brand new Lunar Lexon SE. There is so much to like about the 'van, but there's not been a time that we've used it when something hasn't either fallen off or gone wrong. Indeed, it's just come back to us from the factory (it's already had visits to the dealer!) and only some of the problems have been sorted. So disgruntled with the Lunar after only four months, we went to the NEC show in October to look at the Coachman Pastiche version. What a pig's ear that was!

It would appear that none of the manufacturers can design and build a caravan that ticks all the boxes, arrives as and when it should, and will last even the warranty period without problems.

The final straw is the Caravan Club's rediculous booking system and the selfish members booking one day of every weekend at a site that they probably have no intention of using!

There's also a fantasy that the German 'vans are that much better. Take off the rose coloured glasses and have a good look. I will accept that possibly (although I've not seen any hard evidence) that they don't suffer the ingress as UK ones do, but the internal quality of a lot really does leave a lot to be desired.

I'm off to sit in a darkened room and will await the bombardment from Bailey fans!

So..apart from that.do you enjoy it?

 

[Parksy]

It's a shame when people write that they are giving up caravanning because of club booking systems, the attitude of other caravanners and problems surrounding caravan build quality.

As it happens we own an Abbey and we chose it because after nearly 12 months of research, reading forums, looking at layouts and looking inside used examples to see how time treated them the Abbey ticked our boxes but owners of Baileys or other manufacturers buy what suits them, etto.

Bailey have at least took a step in the right direction with the introduction of Alu Tec in the Pegasus, this can only raise the bar for all manufacturers and buyers will benefit in the end.

The CC booking system seems to generate a lot of comment on forums, if I was affected to the point where I considered giving up I'd simply change clubs and the same goes for site wardens, vote with your hitch!

Rudeness is more common within society as a whole, one doesn't need to go caravanning to encounter it but I have to say that personally I haven't come across any outstanding examples of rudeness or hostility on caravan sites but then I might be thick skinned.

Continental Caravans?

Low equipment levels, orange woodwork, no ovens, ok they supposedly last a long time but they are not without problems.

Again each to their own but not for me personally.

Owners of continental caravans always appear to me to be extremely keen to knock the choices of others on caravan forums as if to reassure themselves that they have made the right choice.

Protests too much springs to mind.

I'll get my tin hat, I have a feeling that some German heavy artillery is incoming!

 

[JohnKS]

I din't think you will have comments from German caravan owners as they have as much trouble with theirs as British van owners do.

Met two couples in France this year. One lived in Germany and was English and the other also English who lived in Holland. Both had German vans and both liked ours and are intending to buy British next time as they were fed up with the lack of equipement and the niggly problems they have had.

Reckon all of us who enjoy the hobby have to put up with the problems until someone makes a van that doesn't leak. Not holding my breath with Bailey!

 

[anotherDavid]

It's a shame when people write that they are giving up caravanning because of club booking systems, the attitude of other caravanners and problems surrounding caravan build quality.

As it happens we own an Abbey and we chose it because after nearly 12 months of research, reading forums, looking at layouts and looking inside used examples to see how time treated them the Abbey ticked our boxes but owners of Baileys or other manufacturers buy what suits them, etto.

Bailey have at least took a step in the right direction with the introduction of Alu Tec in the Pegasus, this can only raise the bar for all manufacturers and buyers will benefit in the end.

The CC booking system seems to generate a lot of comment on forums, if I was affected to the point where I considered giving up I'd simply change clubs and the same goes for site wardens, vote with your hitch!

Rudeness is more common within society as a whole, one doesn't need to go caravanning to encounter it but I have to say that personally I haven't come across any outstanding examples of rudeness or hostility on caravan sites but then I might be thick skinned.

Continental Caravans?

Low equipment levels, orange woodwork, no ovens, ok they supposedly last a long time but they are not without problems.

Again each to their own but not for me personally.

Owners of continental caravans always appear to me to be extremely keen to knock the choices of others on caravan forums as if to reassure themselves that they have made the right choice.

Protests too much springs to mind.

I'll get my tin hat, I have a feeling that some German heavy artillery is incoming!

Opening shots.

We traded our Abbey in after 4 years,loved the design and had wonderful service from swift who did 2 major damp repairs and changed the floor (delamination) for free even out of warranty. Bought a Hymer that looked like a shed and weighed 25% more. After 6 years of 4 months per year use and 45000 miles towing and no problems at all, traded in for another German van to change layout. Yes its got orange woodwork and no oven and no frilly bits but has just completed its first year (17 weeks use) with only the element in the Truma boiler to be replaced .

Dave

 

[Guest]

I suspect you will need more than a tin hat. Possibly a visit to Specsavers would also not go amiss.

I have not seen the van with 'orange woodwork', although I did once see an expensive motorhome with green woodwork. I do admit that some of the Germanic offerings used to have very dark interiors, but I suspect you will find that even they have lighter offerings as well. If people even wish an 'IKEA' type interior then why not look at the Scandinavian offerings. People buy their van for a number of widely differing reasons, one of which I suspect is the location of the nearest dealer. Seeing something close by, and probably on repeat visits, can invariably lead to a sale. I know some buy at Shows but they are either looking for a so called 'bargain' or are just cash happy. I chose a continental van, and it is not German, for a number of reasons, one of which was indeed cost, as it ticked all the equipment boxes better than the similar UK van, and with a price discount of about 30%. That saving paid a lot of holidays. I also wanted the door on the offside as I do most of my touring in Europe, so that was better for us. My wife also insisted on 'NO OVEN'. She feels they are a waste of space and usually rust. Whenever she reads a magazine report that states 'wonderful van but shame there was no oven', she cringes and then states no wonder some of the owners are the size they are. As many also carry a microwave as well, the idea of 'camping' is definitely fading fast. Yes, of course some EU vans do have problems but there is a different attitude towards the caravan in Europe. It is a means to having a holiday, not a means in itself. It is a base from which to enjoy as much outside living as possible, which is why I like'em, not to sit watching some ghastly TV program, cocooned from your neighbours. But as you state 'to each their own'. I appreciate that on a wet evening in a wet field in the UK there is not a lot else to do, unless Scrabble is your fancy, but in the warm evening sun, then coffee outside with a cool glass of wine, takes a lot of beating. Mind you I did hear on Top Gear that 37% of caravanners are into wife swapping, so maybe the closed curtains are hiding other secrets that I am not priviledged to see.

As for continental owners 'protesting too much' that is definitely a misapprehension. It is more the case of 'seeing a better deal, and taking it'. I do not see too many complaints about their individual vans on the Forum, but complaints about Bailey, Swift etc etc, seem prolific. Maybe the Forum could look at the number of 'complaints' for each make of van, and give a league table. By doing so, they are not passing judgement, merely coordinating what members are experiencing. As the Forum membership encompasses a wide spectrum of people, then that could be an illuminating 'snapshot' of the industry.

Of course some would state that is not fair as there are obviously far more UK made vans in the UK, but some trends could certainly be shown.

 

[Parksy]

I'm glad to learn that David (in the comments box) has had a trouble free experience with German built caravans.

We were put off because we like our creature comforts,I'm past the stage where I could regard standing outside in dubious weather cooking on a Cadac would be an adventure but I can see the appeal, it's just not for me these days.

We've owned our Abbey 620 for just over two years without any major problems (touch wood) so perhaps Stephen who has had such bad luck with his caravan and is giving up has been unfortunate to buy a caravan that was poorly assembled because it clearly hasn't stood the test of time.

The Pegasus brand won't be the answer to our prayers in it's present format but at least it has driven caravan design and construction methods forward and I look forward to reading posts in two or three years time from Pegasus owners to find out if Bailey's new construction methods work as they should.

 

[Parksy]

I'm not too sure about the 'wife swapping' that Scotch Lad mentioned, perhaps he uses different sites to the ones that I use.

If touring in Europe is your thing then a continental built caravan might be the way to go, it's not for us at the moment and our dealer is 100 miles from where we live. We decided on that particular dealer on merit after good service previously and as it happened we obtained a good deal but that was as a result of research, watching the market at the time and being prepared to wait until the time was right to strike a good bargain on the caravan that suited us best.

Caravanning in parts of Europe sounds great, there are factors which prevent us from doing this at the moment but it's on our 'to do' list.

In the meantime we prefer not to go 'camping' as such, I did all of that when I owned a tent and we regard our caravan as a hotel room on wheels.

We can come and go as we please (with due consideration for fellow caravanners of course), eat exactly what we want when we want to eat it, enjoy an en suite shower, either go out or stay in depending on how we feel and in the 'hotel room on wheels' I'm lucky enough to sleep with the 'manageress' every night ;0)

It doesn't get much better and I'd urge those who are thinking of giving up whether their caravan is British built or not to think about what they might be missing.

 

[joeby]

Sorry to hear about your troubles Stephen, most unfortunate , I have owned a a few British caravans over the years our first one was an Ace rallyman ,then we bought a Craftsman , after that a Bailey Pageant Moselle , then we bought our first brand new van another Bailey Pahgeant Moselle , then a brand new Bailey Indiana ,and 2.5 years ago we bought our present van a new Lunar Lexon 640 ,which next week will be taking its 3rd trip down to Spain , and in 14 years of using a British caravan i have never had any trouble apart from the odd screw coming loose , so Stephen give another go

 

[NigelHutson]

Paulthomas,

I have been caravanning all of my life, starting with my grandparents in the early 1960's. On the whole we do enjoy it, but for the reasons explained, the enthusiasm is waning. We are members of both Clubs, but the problem is that the most popular (due to location) belong to the Caravan Club.

We are going to York tomorrow for a few days, so we'll see what else falls off the Lunar!

 

[Guest]

Parksy,

The 37% number was quoted by Hammond or May, certainly one of them, and therefore must be true, mustn't it? Maybe that is the reason why so many CC members go to the same site every weekend, they all want to 'party' with their neighbours. Now we know why certain sites are booked so fast, they are all practising 'rabbits'. And we just thought it was to walk the dogs and watch Neighbours, or whatever it is nowadays.

Anyway, you should be relieved though as the caravan Top Gear used for their airship stunt was a Polish made micro van, not a UK one. Not very patriotic was it? Mind you, when it hit the ground it did not break up, so maybe they knew something that some of us already do? Heh! Heh!

I am also sure that once you have experienced some European wanderings then you will see a significant change in your way of life with the van. It is not a case of being anti-British but more of a case of appreciating some more interesting and to some of us, finer things in life. A friend has recently returned from Spain and was amazed that in November the places were full of elderly Brits all jogging the beach, walking the streets and enjoying life to the full. Yes, I accept that some will say 'we can do that in the UK', but I doubt you would be wearing just shorts and a T shirt in November. Just have a look at the C&CC Carefree holiday guides for their winter rallies. When the CC starts offering something close in the UK, then I may think about it, but they can never give me the weather. Next year a potential plan is Malaga for Xmas, and joining the fun. The year after... Greece is very tempting.

So, from that perspective I agree with your comment regarding 'not giving up the hobby just yet'. But I look at it as a means to see and experience things in life that I may not otherwise be able to do. I can visit anywhere in the UK at any time relatively easily, and with some of the bargains now available, certainly have that 'hotel room' for similar costs. I can fly from Edinburgh to Birmingham literally for free with Flybe, plus of course the dreaded air taxes, but still amounts to