Car park charges- a warning

[waffler]

With Easter coming up I thought I would warn friends about parking charges in the Cotswolds. We were at a new year rally based near Chipping Campden and went in the village twice. There is free parking on the street and also a pay and display park by the old market hall. We chose to use the car park both times. On the second visit i bought a ticket and put it in the car on the dash board. When we got back there was a parking fine- £25. The ticket had blown onto the arm rest! (Can you remember new year's eve- wet and very windy!). I appealed and sent a copy of the ticket. I had a very curt formal e-mail back telling to pay the fine. The fact that i chose to pay for parking and that no sticky label was on the back of the parking ticket was dismissed. I paid the fine but wrote to the council and the local councillors saying that this is not the way to encourage visitors. I have not had a reply.
I know that legally i was wrong because the ticket was not showing in my car but I still feel cheated.
By the way Broadway is not in this Council's area.

 

[Surfer]

With Easter coming up I thought I would warn friends about parking charges in the Cotswolds. We were at a new year rally based near Chipping Campden and went in the village twice. There is free parking on the street and also a pay and display park by the old market hall. We chose to use the car park both times. On the second visit i bought a ticket and put it in the car on the dash board. When we got back there was a parking fine- £25. The ticket had blown onto the arm rest! (Can you remember new year's eve- wet and very windy!). I appealed and sent a copy of the ticket. I had a very curt formal e-mail back telling to pay the fine. The fact that i chose to pay for parking and that no sticky label was on the back of the parking ticket was dismissed. I paid the fine but wrote to the council and the local councillors saying that this is not the way to encourage visitors. I have not had a reply.
I know that legally i was wrong because the ticket was not showing in my car but I still feel cheated.
By the way Broadway is not in this Council's area.

Was it a Penalty Charge Notice or a Parking Charge Notice? Who issued the ticket and to whom did you pay the fine? Just wondering if you have been conned?

 

[otherclive]

Unfortunatley it is not uncommon for car parks to levy a penalty charge if the enforcement staff cannot see the ticket clearly. Some place it the wrong way around or it just slips as the doors are closed. Pity they are not all sellf adhesive but that denies the opportunty to sell advertising space on the reverse side.

 

[Raywood]

I have had a couple of occassions where the sticky nhas failed and the ticket dropped off and I got a ticket. I now place them on top of the dashboard and check they are easily visible after shutting the door.

 

[soldlisa04]

We drove into Evesham last Saturday and parked on the ground level, next to the ramp up to Level 1. A Saab parked next to our car had gone over his white line, so we had no choice but to do the same (very slightly). I had my parents with me - my Father has had 2 hip replacements and 2 hip revisions, and is registered disabled, but forgot his badge! He was in the front passenger seat and had trouble getting out of the car due to the close proximity of the ramp. We put a 2 hour ticket on the car and returned 20 mins before it expired. Imagine our shock to find a parking ticket on the windscreen. Rather puzzled, we opened the ticket on the way back to the caravan site, all the while discussing that we hadn't parked in a disabled bay, there was adequate time on the ticket etc.

The Jobsworth had booked us for parking over 2 bays!!! Quite how a parking bay is defined as being the ramp up to level one I don't know and the only reason our car was slightly over the white line was because of the idiot Saab driver parked next to us. All this I have explained politely in an email and letter to Eurocar Parks. I have asked them why it is not displayed clearly anywhere in the car park about parking within the white lines so that you can avoid being charged £50.

I will let you know the outcome of the appeal but suffice to say that we won't be visiting that car park in Evesham ever again. Rant over.

 

[Surfer]

We drove into Evesham last Saturday and parked on the ground level, next to the ramp up to Level 1. A Saab parked next to our car had gone over his white line, so we had no choice but to do the same (very slightly). I had my parents with me - my Father has had 2 hip replacements and 2 hip revisions, and is registered disabled, but forgot his badge! He was in the front passenger seat and had trouble getting out of the car due to the close proximity of the ramp. We put a 2 hour ticket on the car and returned 20 mins before it expired. Imagine our shock to find a parking ticket on the windscreen. Rather puzzled, we opened the ticket on the way back to the caravan site, all the while discussing that we hadn't parked in a disabled bay, there was adequate time on the ticket etc.

The Jobsworth had booked us for parking over 2 bays!!! Quite how a parking bay is defined as being the ramp up to level one I don't know and the only reason our car was slightly over the white line was because of the idiot Saab driver parked next to us. All this I have explained politely in an email and letter to Eurocar Parks. I have asked them why it is not displayed clearly anywhere in the car park about parking within the white lines so that you can avoid being charged £50.

I will let you know the outcome of the appeal but suffice to say that we won't be visiting that car park in Evesham ever again. Rant over.

Please be aware that it is probably NOT not a ticket. If it states "Parking Charge Notice" then you can safely ignore. There are no laws governing parking on private ground and even less for painted bays on private land. The white lines are mere graffitti.
If it is a Parking Charhe Notice the Private Parking Company will look pretty stupid if they were foolish enough to do court. If you want more information please go to Pepipoo or Consumer Action group.

 

[otherclive]

http://www.justanswer.com/uk-traffic-law/4vzgz-received-pcn-parking-outside-white-lines-parking.html
The above link leads to a response by a barrister which does confirm that a penalty notice for parking infringements on council operated car parks is legal and enforcable. So despite some views I'd be careful how you deal with it. Whilst I sympathise with your predicament if everyone parked at will or left tickets that cannot be read then the availabilty of parking spaces would reduce. What are the staff expected to do in such circumstances? To call them 'jobsworths' as some are inclined to do is not fair, they are people doing a job of work, albeit one that we all wish wasnt necessary. I'ts too easy to blame the staff whenit must be the driver who is responsible for ensuring compliance with the parking conditions.

 

[otherclive]

http://www.ticketfighter.co.uk/private.htm
This link leads to advice re parking on private car parks, where the law of contract is applicable. Whilst the regulations covering infringments changed in October 2012 most of the advice is still relevant. Infringments leading to a penalty charge are civil issues, and to enforce the penalty charge would be a civil damages action. Taking up two bays would only incur the owner of the car park in a small amount of lost revenue and is unlikely to lead to a court action. Threatening letters re credit ratings, bailiffs etc could be construed as harassment which is a criminal act. Advice from Honest Johns website (after exhausting the appeals) seems to be to send them a firmly worded letter which shows that you know the relevant legislation, offer them a small sum of money against their loss in full and final settlement. In most cases they just drop issue.

 

[Gafferbill]

You can be given a penalty notice in Council operated car parks and it is legal and enforceable ......... what is more the penalty usually doubles if you do not pay promptly.
Break the rules and it will cost you.......they do not do warnings which I personally think would often be more productive.

My wife bought a pay and display ticket in such a car park, it was valid and correctly displayed ....... unfortunately in a distracted moment of madness she parked in a clearly marked motorcycle bay.
She paid the £30 penalty.
She also paid another £30 penalty for being 4 minutes late back to her car on a previous occasion.
Neither infringement was intentional.

We estimated that we used to spend around £80/year in that car park over a 20 year period and shop in that town's shops.
Since the last fine, nearly 2 years ago now, we do not use paid parking in that town and our visits to it's shop are drastically reduced.

 

[Gagakev]

With Easter coming up I thought I would warn friends about parking charges in the Cotswolds. We were at a new year rally based near Chipping Campden and went in the village twice. There is free parking on the street and also a pay and display park by the old market hall. We chose to use the car park both times. On the second visit i bought a ticket and put it in the car on the dash board. When we got back there was a parking fine- £25. The ticket had blown onto the arm rest! (Can you remember new year's eve- wet and very windy!). I appealed and sent a copy of the ticket. I had a very curt formal e-mail back telling to pay the fine. The fact that i chose to pay for parking and that no sticky label was on the back of the parking ticket was dismissed. I paid the fine but wrote to the council and the local councillors saying that this is not the way to encourage visitors. I have not had a reply.
I know that legally i was wrong because the ticket was not showing in my car but I still feel cheated.
By the way Broadway is not in this Council's area.

This happened to me in Newquay a few years ago, bought ticket, wind blew it so not on show = parking fine
Went to town hall with said purchased ticket and showed them I had paid and they waived the fine = common sense
mind you that was about 10 years, wonder if they would still be so lenient in this money grabbing age?? I doubt it.

 

[otherclive]

My XC70 has a fitted parking ticket holder on the off side A pillar but unfortunately it failed to stop me forgetting to buy a ticket, expensive lapse prevented when passenger suddenly reminded me some 200m down the road!!

 

[soldlisa04]

Interesting reading - thank you all. I have appealed and will await the outcome. I have no intention of dragging it through Courts etc. merely put my point of view across to them calmly and precisely in a polite letter. I worked for our local District Council for years and back then, polite letters were definitely viewed more 'favourably' than not so polite ones (this was back in the '80's though, things have probably changed now). They have received my letter as I have an acknowledgement, now waiting to hear back ...

 

[Surfer]

Interesting reading - thank you all. I have appealed and will await the outcome. I have no intention of dragging it through Courts etc. merely put my point of view across to them calmly and precisely in a polite letter. I worked for our local District Council for years and back then, polite letters were definitely viewed more 'favourably' than not so polite ones (this was back in the '80's though, things have probably changed now). They have received my letter as I have an acknowledgement, now waiting to hear back ...

Please confirm whether it was a Penalty Charge Notice or a Parking Charge Notice. If the former pay it and move on. If the latter you have just wasted a stamp.

 

[joeby]

when we visited the east coast of Australia last year , we stayed in Coffs Harbour , also at Tweed Heads , all parking was free even in the multi storey parks , the only place we paid was at surfers paradise , when i told people we have to pay to park they couldnt believe it , and when i told them the cost of fuel they nearly fell of there seats ,

 

[joeby]

when we visited the east coast of Australia last year , we stayed in Coffs Harbour , also at Tweed Heads , all parking was free even in the multi storey parks , the only place we paid was at surfers paradise , when i told people we have to pay to park they couldnt believe it , and when i told them the cost of fuel they nearly fell of there seats ,

 

[RayS]

Halford used to sell (and may still do so) very neat self advesive clear plastic clips which are designed to fit inside the windscreen and hold the parking ticket securely - no danger of it being blown down onto the seat by wind etc.
I've fitted two - one for it's intended use and the other at the top of the screenpassenger side to hold ferry boarding cards which are intended to be hung from the mirror but are quite the wrong shape and size for many cars today.
I did argue with one local council on behalf of my wife, and used a photograph to show that where she had parked was a bay in that it had one white sideline, but the other two sides were natural stone wall which a much betterr deterrant to keep you in 'your' space. Copying such letters to the local Chamber of Commerce may help to limit the problems.

 

[soldlisa04]

Parking Charge Notice, I believe. Still waiting to hear from them ...

 

[whitetop]

If its a parking charge notice, usually issued by private car park management companies....bin it.

 

[soldlisa04]

We received a letter in the post from Euro Car Parks yesterday, complete with a photograph of our car parked across two bays but surprise surprise ... no car parked badly next to us, hence why we parked across two bays in the first place. Nice one Euro Car parks - obviously have well trained attendants who wait until the original offending car drives off, then takes the pic to nail us bang to rights. Not going to argue about it, or bin it, have vented my spleen, rather sarcastically in another letter, sending all of their paperwork back to them along with a cheque. I contemplated putting a pound of flesh in the envelope as well, but decided against it. I am so mad as they have got us over a barrell. Rest assured, any car parks in the future run by this bunch of money grabbing cowboys, we shall avoid like the plague, even if it means walking that extra mile! Rant over - I am FURIOUS.

... will be cracking open the wine in the caravan tonight mark my words!!!!

 

[Surfer]

Please send me £60 because your post took up my time to read it! I cannot never understand why people pay just because they were given an invoice which is not an enforceable ticket. I would have taken the advice of ignoring them unless they were stupid enough to issue a summons.

 

[soldlisa04]

Having been burnt before with a CCJ from my OH's dear ex-wife ... we decided that in this case we can do without the hassle and risk our address being blacklisted so paid up. Once bitten, twice shy as they say and no, you can't have £60 cos I'm spending it on wine!

 

[soldlisa04]

Having been burnt before with a CCJ from my OH's dear ex-wife ... we decided that in this case we can do without the hassle and risk our address being blacklisted so paid up. Once bitten, twice shy as they say and no, you can't have £60 cos I'm spending it on wine!

 

[otherclive]

Whilst I can understand your frustration there is no doubt that you too parked inconsiderately. If everyone using car parks did the same then parking availabilty would be much reduced. Faced with the problem why didnt you drive off and look elsewhere?

 

[Surfer]

Having been burnt before with a CCJ from my OH's dear ex-wife ... we decided that in this case we can do without the hassle and risk our address being blacklisted so paid up. Once bitten, twice shy as they say and no, you can't have £60 cos I'm spending it on wine!

Before you are issued with a CCJ it has to go to court and before it goes to court a summons is issued. If you do defend it in court and lose which is highly unlikely you have 28 days to pay before a CCJ is issued. The chances of a PPC taking it as far as court is almost zero as they are not that stupid unfortunately. Where can I send my invoice for £60?

 

[Parksy]

Having been burnt before with a CCJ from my OH's dear ex-wife ... we decided that in this case we can do without the hassle and risk our address being blacklisted so paid up. Once bitten, twice shy as they say and no, you can't have £60 cos I'm spending it on wine!

There's still time to stop the cheque and *** to the off licence on the way back from the bank Lisa

There is some good information about private parking charge notices (otherwise known as begging letters) on Martin Lewis's Money Saving Expert blog.
The Money Saving Expert uses excerpts from a Sunday Times article and includes a quote from Les Knight, the business director of Euro Car Parks :
'Some ticketing firms claim
to have won cases in court, but Les Knight, new business director of
Euro Car Parks, a private parking firm, admits it has not taken legal
action against any non-paying drivers, and that any future action is
likely to be difficult because of the legal uncertainty. "As more
motorists become aware of the situation, it may reduce compliance with
tickets"
Private parking companies dare not go to court to attempt to enforce the charges demanded on their invoices because they would lose, and once the legal precedent had been established they would be out of business. This is why they decorate their invoices with things like yellow and black chequered borders and threatening looking quasi legal mumbo jumbo, they rely on bullying enough motorists into paying up.
Of course motorists should park considerately but private parking companies should charge fees which are in proportion to the 'offence'. If you used two parking bays I'm sure that you wouldn't have minded buying two tickets for example?
There is lots more information on the Money Saving Expert forum which is a brilliant website from which to pick up advice, tips on special offers etc.