CARAVAN FAULTS II

[KeithJ]

Following on from Prof John's advice on the "Caravan Faults" thread this week, I would like to ask how it would be sided on what action was satisfactory by the dealer in the case of faults.

I bought a new caravan last September - so it is 10 months old. It has been used for one holiday of 5 weeks in Spain this year, a week in Dorset last October, and three long-weekend breaks. Things are now beginning to fall off it and I have taken it to the dealer for repair under the warantee. Most faults are not too serious and can be put right fairly easily, but the most unsatisfactory situation is that 6 faults relate to the cooker, and I have listed these below:

1. Grill door doesn't shut properly
2. Oven door doesn't shut properly
3. Grill flame spreader plate has fallen off
4. Spark to grill doesn't work
5. Gas has now ceased to come through at the grill
6. Spark to oven now doesn't work so a match has to be used
7. When working the oven doesn't get hot enough - one hour to cook a shepherd's pie and then it needed to be finished in the microwave!

The dealer has asked the cooker manufacturer to replace the cooker but they have refused the request, replying that they will supply replacement parts. I don't think this is a satisfactory solution when the van is only 10 months old and has been used so little. I have told the dealer that I don't accept the manufacturer's solution and I want a new cooker. The dealer is now going to ask the caravan manufacturer to try to put pressure on the cooker manufacturer, but as stated in the previous thread, they are all on summer holiday now!! Do I have any rights in this case or am I banging my head against a wall.

It is worth noting that the fridge door also fell off and I had to repair it myself - the fridge is made by the same manufacturer as the cooker!!!

Can anybody offer any advice?

 

[hortimech]

1. Grill door doesn't shut properly
2. Oven door doesn't shut properly
3. Grill flame spreader plate has fallen off
4. Spark to grill doesn't work
5. Gas has now ceased to come through at the grill
6. Spark to oven now doesn't work so a match has to be used
7. When working the oven doesn't get hot enough - one hour to cook a shepherd's pie and then it needed to be finished in the microwave!

I would have said that this oven is not fit for purpose and should be replaced.

The dealer has asked the cooker manufacturer to replace the cooker but they have refused the request, replying that they will supply replacement parts.

What the cooker manufacturer says to the dealer has nothing to do with purchaser, the contract is between the dealer and purchaser.
As this oven has that many faults, I would suggest that there is a case for it being replaced as not fit for purpose, but this is the dealers problem not the purchasers. I would demand that it be replaced.

 

[ProfJohnL]

I agree with hortimech.
The manufactures opinion has no relevance to your claim against the seller. Inform the seller that nothing less than a complete cooker replacement under SoGA will be acceptable.
The reasons you give are more than enough to demonstrate the product is not of merchantable quality, after all it should not fall apart in less than a year. And the fact it is not functioning properly it represents a danger as unburnt gas may be escaping. so its not fit for purpose and it fails to cook food within normal cooking parameters so food may not be properly cooked which represents a health hazard.
I suggest you contact Consumer Direct so they can give professional advice on what to do.
Some dealers either do not understand SoGA or are deliberatly trying to avoid their responsibilities to their customers, by quoting manufactures opinions. The appliance is clearly faulty as the manufacture is suggesting replacment of parts. If you can show me where on your contract of sale you requested a faulty oven, then the dealer can get away with it, but as I am certain you did not ask for faulty appliances why has the dealer sold you some?

 

[Dustydog]

Morning John,

Do you think Keith needs to allow the Dealer one chance to effect a correct permanent repair to the cooker in the first instance?
A slightly rhetorical question because I'm with you and Hortimech.
It does make you wonder how any manufacturer can produce a gas appliance with so many inherent latent defects!!

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello Dusty,

To be blunt, I don't think the OP deserves to be offered anything less. A continual history of component failures on just one product is entirely unacceptable it is a lemon. If it were simple things like a replacement plastic control knob, then I would agree a repair is a reasonable remedy, but its not just superficial failures, its control and functional components that are failing, so what confidence would the owner have in the rest of the product once a few parts have been replaced. Taken to an extreme, as the OP bought the caravan as a complete package on one contract there is a case to have the whole caravan replaced - but that is probably unreasonable and not likely to be supported outcome at 10 months old.

I am actually of the opinion that OP's confidence in the model of cooker must be shattered, so I think he has a real case for a complete replacement with different model/brand if one exists to fit.

I have some sympathy with the seller, as I recognise the faults are not of his making, but the way SoGA operates it is his fault for not ensuring the products are fault free. The sellers contractual obligations with his suppliers (i.e. caravan manufacture)are of no consequence in regard of his obligations to his customer. It is one of the business risks that retailers take if they dont check the products they sell. Its a responsibility the've got to start taking seriously.

 

[KeithJ]

Quote from Prof John: "I am actually of the opinion that OP's confidence in the model of cooker must be shattered"
You are right, but it's more than that - my confidence in the cooker manufacturer is also shattered, especially with their response to the dealer's request, although I accept that my case is with the seller. As I mentioned the fridge door also fell off (completely!!!), and come to think of it the toilet cassette (same manufacturer) is not entirely watertight as it is impossible to take it to the emptying point without getting a wet hand!!!
Thank you all very much for your supporting comments. I will certainly consult Consumer Direct for advice.

 

[Dustydog]

Thanks for the update John, much appreciated.
It never ceases to amaze me how some dealers deflect their own legal responsibilities and hide under the manufacturers skirts .
I hope Keith presses the dealer hard for a full replacement cooker asap.

On the toilet issue I have noticed that the latest model C-250 , on wheels , seems to collect a residue of pink flush liquid on top of the main waste container seal. I too , if not carefull can get a wet hand. I've never had this problem with the previous models.
There is a cure I've discovered. Wait 30 seconds after flushing before closing the waste chamber blade. That allows all the flush to drain off properly.
A design defect? Quite possibly.

 

[WoodlandsCamper]

On the toilet issue I have noticed that the latest model C-250 , on wheels , seems to collect a residue of pink flush liquid on top of the main waste container seal. I too , if not carefull can get a wet hand. I've never had this problem with the previous models.
There is a cure I've discovered. Wait 30 seconds after flushing before closing the waste chamber blade. That allows all the flush to drain off properly.

We did a live-in test earlier in the week in our new van and I found the same problem as you when emptying the toilet - getting a wet hand. Next time out we will try the 30 second method.

 

[ProfJohnL]

It never ceases to amaze me how some dealers deflect their own legal responsibilities and hide under the manufacturers skirts .

Hello Dusty,

Wrong word!

I think "Evade" provides a closer description of how some dealers relate to SoGA.

It's easy to jump to the conclusion that the industry (manufacture to seller) all seems a bit shady from the limited number of incidents we read about on forums. So it is important to bring a little balance to the table.

I'm sure if the caravan manufactures were to divulge their level of complaints we would see a majority of caravanners are basically happy with their purchases and have no major issues.

But if this were true, the surely the manufacture could afford to be more supportive towards customers.

However I suspect manufacturers views of the situation may be distorted. I am aware that many smaller issues are handled by the dealers without any reference to the caravan manufacture. this is partly due to the faff of having to fill out numerous forms, and that manufactures traditionally challenge claims and require complex verification - for some jobs its barely worth the effort.

Also in many cases where the complaint may lie with an appliance, the caravan manufacture tells the dealer to deal directly with the appliance manufacture and not the caravan manufacture.

This has both good and bad points. On the good side it means that an appliance is likely to be repaired more rapidly as there fewer administrative levels to go through. But on the bad side, the impact of appliance failures never gets fully referred to the caravan manufacture. If they don't feel it, they wont report it in their figures. I shall return to this theme further down.

This split process may seem alien to end users who know SoGA places the responsibility directly on a single entity, the retail seller. Dealers don't have the same legal protection when dealing with their suppliers. The return of faulty goods to suppliers is is often down to locally agreed contractual procedures.

I suspect if dealers were able to be honest about customer complaints probably a majority of customers have some issue with a new caravan all-be-it only small things that may be easily rectified.

The complaint reporting schemes manufacturers have effectively filters out the mundane and regular small issues at the dealers. This crates an artificially rosier picture of the way their products are actually working, which is one of the reasons why they can appear to be so off hand when customers do bring issues directly to them.

Manufacturers may try to blame the system, but its a system they have created and control. They could (and in my opinion should) change it so they can see the real angst their ultimate customers experience when their products go wrong.

Holiday's are a very sensitive subject, people work hard to save up enough money to pay for them, and of course there are limited times when they can be taken. So to plan a caravan holiday only to find you have to change you plans or even cancel because of a caravan fault is a much bigger issue than many other product failures. Judging by caravan manufactures and dealers responses, I sometimes think they fail to comprehend their customers distress.

Ultimately it all comes back to quality, or more to the point lack of quality control at the manufacturers. If they were to get it right first time, through market research, design testing and production, how much better it would all be.

 

[otherclive]

I agree with Prof as its quite obvious that by 'encouraging' dealers to rectify issues themselves or by routing them back to equipment suppliers the manufacturers are losing a valuable source of feedback on quality. Such a source would tell them where their own problems lie and allow them to work with their suppliers to improve the quality of supplied equipment. If necessary changing suppliers if quality improvements cannot be effected. Cars are increasingly 5 year warranty, 7 for Kias and it's only by the ceaseless attention to detail that has driven motor reliability and response to customers to levels so much higher than 10 years ago. I know the scale is different with caravans but even so the number of units made per year is not insignificant. Also for vans the basic customer expectation is for problems. Rightly or wrongly the industry needs to work harder to change this perception.

 

[Raywood]

The advice you have got is correct and you should advise the dealer that the cooker is not of merchantable quality and under The Sale of Goods Act you require it replaced and if this is not done within thirty days you will be taking the matter up with Trading Standards and raising a small claims action for damages.