caravan in driveway

[mastermac]

just had run in with my neighbour about caravan in my drive. he reckons i need planning permision

i reckon he,s talking twaddle but what are the legal issues involved with having you,re van up the drive.

need some info if he brings up the subject again'

 

[Icemaker]

Most houses will have a clause in the deeds stating that you can not keep a caravan on the property, but they will allso state that you can not keep any commercial vehicles or vans on the property as well.

We had problems with the nosy neighbour from hell (every estate has one) and i just called round every home that had a caravan or van on the drive and told them what the little hitler was planning to do and we all got together ask him what his problem was.

I think the site of round about half the estate walking up his drive changed his mind.

From my experiance as long as you dont create a nuisance or an eye sore and make sure you ask your neighbours first then problems should be avoided.

Unfortunately if it is banned in the deeds and he does complain to the council then the van will almost certainly have to be moved.

 

[Rita1]

Do what we did

We wrote to the local council to ask permission to keep caravan on drive and it was given in writing

Much the best way saves loads of hassle

Rita

 

[Guest]

We checked with the neighbours all around us asking them if they minded a caravan on the drive. Especially since it's a shared driveway for three of us anyway. They all said they didn't mind and were pleased for us we were doing it. Had we just got a caravan and it turned up on the shared driveway one day outta the blue, it might have been a different story!

Ours is a Housing Association house which states in the contract we have to ask permission of the Association to park anything other than a roadworthy car there. We wrote to them before we got the caravan and to this day, we've never heard anything back from them!

 

[Geist]

Hi,

hopefully I can give you a definitive answer on this - based on my own experience and research.

Your neigghbour may well be correct - it depends on whether a restrictive covenant applies to your property. In practice, covenants prohibiting the parking of caravans have been applied to most 'estate type' properties built since the 70's.

I post below an answer I gave some years ago on a newsgroup (the same question, from someone getting greif for keeping a trailer tent, istr) As far as I am aware the law in respect of these issues has not changed in the last four or five years, and you can take this a an authoritative guide (if you choose to)

If you have further questions I'll be happy to assist as much as I am able

Begin Repost:

The only legal definition of a 'caravan' that exists is found in the

'Countryside Control Of Development Act' (1962, I think - but subsequently

amended)

This defines a Caravan as being;

'Any structure designed for human habitation which is capable of being

transported from place to place, either by being towed, or by being placed

upon any motor vehicle, or any motor vehicle so designed'

This act was primarily concerned with the control of 'static' sites (Static

'vans being transportable by wagon) but it is clear that a 'Trailer Tent' is

a structure designed for human habitation, and is capable of being towed or transported - ergo, it's a 'Caravan'.

The other interesting point is the final 'or any motor vehicle so designed'.

This places 'Metronome's, 'Dormobiles', 'Caravanettes', 'Motor-Caravans',

whatever you choose to call them, firmly into the 'Caravan' category.

I know that some people who have been affected by restrictive covenants,

prohibiting them keeping a 'Caravan' on their property, have tried to argue

that their Motorhome is, in fact, a 'Motor Vehicle' and is not subject to

the relevant covenant.

 

[Geist]

further to my previous response, I've dug out another post I made on this subject.

while the info might well not what you were hoping to hear, it will save you from a financial disater if your neighbour starts to push things.

Best plan would be some sucking up the neighbour to get him on-side.

Begin Repost:

The point of Restrictive Covenants is that they are designed to do exactly

*that* - to restrict certain specified activities. Breach of such Covenants

does not usually carry a penalty - but, if a Court so rules, the particular

activity must cease, and their is a possibility that damages might be

awarded to the Plaintiff who drew the Court's attention to the infringement.

Although damages are fairly rare in these sort of cases, Costs awarded

against the losing party are not! - and can easily total several thousands

of pounds.

One couple whom I have spoken to purchased a property, knowing that a

Covenant forbade the parking of a caravan there. They, however, owned a

Motorhome - and were confident that they *could* park it on the property,

arguing that it was, in fact, a 'Motor Vehicle' and not a 'caravan'

Three days after moving in, there next door neighbour asked them what they

intended to do about 'That thing' - i.e., the much loved motorcaravan!

The couple replied that they were keeping it on the driveway, that it was a

motor vehicle - and (in effect) that the neighbour could P*ss Off!

So the neighbour did! - and p*ssed off straight to his solicitor!

When the matter came to Court the Judge dismissed the argument that the

motorhome was a 'motor vehicle' (and, in fact, the only source of transport

for the unfortunate couple) and cited the 'Caravan Sites Control Of

Development Act' - which defines a 'caravan' as:

'Any structure designed for human habitation that is capable of being moved

from place to place, either by being towed behind a motor vehicle or being

placed upon any motor vehicle, or any motor vehicle so designed' (I can't

remember the *exact* wording, but that's as near as dammit)

The first part is straightforward - a caravan is a structure designed for

human habitation that's towed behind a car.

The next bit covers 'Static' vans - transported to their destination by

lorry.

It was the last part that stuffed the couple - 'Any motor vehicle so

designed'. Their motor caravan 'was', indeed, a 'motor vehicle' - but is

was designed for human habitation and, thus, was indisputably a 'Caravan'.

And, being a caravan, it was covered by the Covenant in question - and they

had to shift it from the property!

They also had to pay some

 

[mastermac]

cheers all for you,re reply,s. time i think to check my deeds let you no the outcome if any

 

[Meister]

We have restrictive covenants on our home, one of which prohibits the keeping of a caravan "forward of the front of the property line" i.e. on the drive or front garden.

We considered having the side landscaped so we could put the 'van there but cost was an issue.

I contacted the builders (house is 16 yrs old).

Spoke with their legal dept and asked if they would remove the restrictive covenant relating to caravans and said that I would even pay the legal costs. I was told simply NO.

So ..... our 'van is in storage which luckily is only 10 mins away from home.

Interestingly the restrictive covenant prohibits the "keeping" of a caravan etc etc so ....... there is no problem if I want to park it on my drive overnight perhaps to make an early start easier the next day. My solicitor has confirmed that having the 'van at home overnight or even for a couple of days is highly unlikely to be seen by a court as "keeping".

Also, if a neighbour decided to try legal action the van would be gone before they could do anything.

As for the builders .... they told me that they would not be interested in taking legal action unless really pushed.

I spoke with my Local Authority Planning Dept who stated simply that they would only take an interest if someone were living in the caravan. Also that they have no powers to enforce restrictive covenants.

Steve

 

[GrahamSouthBrum]

Hey Leggs,

Its all very well having a caravan on your drive way, but you need a car to tow it with ) lol

But to day is your birthday & I know that you are getting your tow car to day, so I raced home today to get off the roads before you get on them. )

G.

 

[Guest]

LOL Not really my birthday but I guess it felt like it. It was new car collection day yes, and a brill car it is too. We're now able to tow but haven't actually hooked up the caravan yet. We simply never had time. Tomorrow for sure! ;-)

 

[SMS]

Hi

Talking about covenants on properties. I, for my sins, used to live in Grimsby for a couple of years. A convenant on the property there was that you could not fry fish on the premises on a Friday!

Funny old world!

 

[JeremyClarksson]

Meister

""forward of the front of the property line" i.e. on the drive or front garden"

I would read the property line as meaning the edge of your property - not the building - and this would include your garden and drive.

That would mean not having the towbar hanging into the public carraigeway/path.

 

[ThePlotter]

I would agree the property line is where your property meets the highway (the pavement) and the building line is the front of the building.

 

[mastermac]

cheers again for the response. not had time to check on my deeds yet. but must add my caravan is in my own drive :not shared: 32 foot drive not on an estate but a main road. i have another 25 foot at the side of the house which is gated off too low for the caravan to go through. if push comes to shove then i,ll take gates down and move van back behind front off house.

but will be concerned about overhead damage roof tiles etc.

also after reading replies wondering where house line is.

all this co,s neighbour say,s my van is causing obstruction asked him how when it,s up my drive his reply was his veiw.have guess what the veiw is :my garden:

 

[JeremyClarksson]

Ask him nicely to provide you with the necessary legal info and you will look into it. You are unlikely to hear anything else.

You could plant a hedge next to the van and that would only remove more of his view all of the year.

Covenants aside you are not breaking any rules unless you have people living in it permanently - as previously said.

 

[Geist]

SMS wrote: Hi

Talking about covenants on properties. I, for my sins, used to live in Grimsby for a couple of years. A convenant on the property there was that you could not fry fish on the premises on a Friday!

Funny old world!⇦br/>

Indeed - but, surely, in Grimsby it would have been an offence *not* to cook fish on any evening?

When we sold a house we owned in Wales (see? - there are worse places than Grimsby the purchasers solicitor uncovered an old covenant that had been placed on the land by the Church in Wales before the land was sold in the early 1960's, to the effect that the C in W could extract minerals from our garden.

The house had changed hand half a dozen times before we bought it - and not one person had uncovered that tit-bit! I, actually, was quite impressed by the thoroughness of the buyer's solicitor

The prob;em was that no-one knew anything about it, and no-one had the faintest idea what to do about it. In something of a panic (because it was holding up the sale) I rang the C in W in Cardiff and, by an absolute, genuine, no-nonsense, verifiable, New Testament miracle, I got to speak to an old chap in their archives department - who had spent the last couple of months researching into this type of arcane covenants on church property.

He was as delighted as I was that, at last, he had an opportunity to put his knowledge to use - and the Church's lawyers gave a written undertaking to remove the covenant, and the sale went ahead. But only because of that old chap - otherwise, I think they'd still be wondering what do do about it years later.

 

[Meister]

Hi,

I have checked the deeds to my house and to clarify my earlier comment: "forward of the front of the property line" i.e. on the drive or front garden"

The deeds then go on to clarify and state that it actually refers to the most forward BUILDING line.

Always worth checking and thanks to Jeremy Clarks son for spotting it.

Steve

 

[JeremyClarksson]

Meister

No problem

Would this also apply to a motor caravan as well then?

 

[RogerP]

cheers again for the response. not had time to check on my deeds yet. but must add my caravan is in my own drive :not shared: 32 foot drive not on an estate but a main road. i have another 25 foot at the side of the house which is gated off too low for the caravan to go through. if push comes to shove then i,ll take gates down and move van back behind front off house.

but will be concerned about overhead damage roof tiles etc.

also after reading replies wondering where house line is.

all this co,s neighbour say,s my van is causing obstruction asked him how when it,s up my drive his reply was his veiw.have guess what the veiw is :my garden:

Send the neighbour a bill for 'enjoying' the view of your garden. After all you need to pay for the up keep and its only fair he contributes as he's benefiting at your cost

 

[allen1]

The deed of covenants are there to protect the interests of everybody who live on estates covered by them,for every decent looking well kept van there will be someones which will be a pile of crap and an eyesore to people who have no interest in caravaning.

 

[JeremyClarksson]

So why not have covenants about what car they can drive, how they keep their gardens or how overweight they are?

All sounds a bit Big Brother to me (The original 1984 BB not the rubbish TV show)

 

[Geist]

Jeremy Clark's Son wrote:

No problem

Would this also apply to a motor caravan as well then?

Yes - because (as explained above) the only legal definition of a 'caravan' is that contained in the Caravan Sites Control Of Development Act (1963)

'Any structure designed for human habitation that is capable of being moved from place to place, either by being towed, or placed upon any motor vehicle, or any motor vehicle so designed' for human habitation)

So a motor caravan or motor home is legally a caravan. You do get certain other rights and responsibilities conferred by virtue of it also being a motor vehicle - but for the purpose of a restrictive covenant it most definitely is a caravan.

Every test case, to date, has upheld this definition (to the detriment of motor home owners who were fighting against covenant restrictions)

Obviously, the reverse is also true - if a caravan is permitted, then so is a 'motor home' because it's really a caravan

 

[Guest]

I don't think the problem with neighbours is so much "are you allowed to park that there?" but more a matter of "It's blocking my light mate!!" or "It looks a bleedin' eyesore!!"

This is one reason I checked in advance with my neighbours if they were OK with it. The end-house neighbour expressed only one concern in that his back gate opened onto my driveway. I measured up and discovered that the A-Frame would just about reach his gate and when I explained this to him, he was OK about it. I also explained that the height of the caravan would barely reach the top of his rather high brick wall so he wouldn't have to endure the top of a caravan over his wall.

As someone else once mentioned, best bet is to try and get the neighbour onside. Invite him for a drink and to discuss the problems, offering to do what you can to resolve the issue. Chances are, he'll do an about-turn once you've shown willing in wanting to resolve any issues with your neighbours and had a friendly chat with them. I've always found this works.

 

[runnerphil]

tell your neighbour "if your not happy with MY caravan on MY drive, look the other way. if you can't do that move house."

Post edited*

 

[Essexeddie]

Dont beat about the bush BaldyL

Say what you mean

Edd