Caravan Site Pricing

[lucylogic]

I have been going to a caravan site for the past 6 yrs, in that time the price has gone up from £8 per night per unit including EHU and awning to £15 per night 2 persons including EHU, £2 for awning and £2.50 per extra person and £1.50 for the dog, None of the facilities have been upgraded during that time and nothing has changed. I have to say that this is a CL site which we prefer to use.
I do believe that these 5 van sites are told what to charge by the CC & C&CCs as they are are nearly all the same, Apart from one fantastic site which charges £11 per unit with EHU, no extra for dogs, kids/adults and awnings and the facilities are superb, and no I'm not telling where it is (it's a secret) lol
Are other caravanners getting cheesed off by the increase in charges if you are only sitting in a field???
I will not,on principal pay £20+ per night anywhere.
If they keep on putting up the charges it will be cheaper to hop on a plane for a holiday!!
Your thought on this subject please
Thanks

Jan or lucylogic

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello Lucy,
Even though a Cl site is approved and authorised by the CC, the CC does not own the site, therefore it is up to the sites owner to decide what to charge. apparently the CC do make some suggestions but theriinput is not binding on the site owner.
You muist bear in mind that all sites (even CL's) are run a businesses, and businesses must make a profit to survive. and like car owners being a cash cow for local and national government, caravan owners are also seen as an easy touch, and most businesses will charge what they believe the customer will be prepared to pay.
If sites price themselves out of contention or beyond a point that you are hapy with then vote by taking your business elswhere. the sites will eithe reduce theri prices or go out of business.

 

[RogerL]

5-van CL/CS sites are independently owned and set their own terms, conditions and pricing. There have been reports of CC site inspectors pressuring, or maybe just suggesting, that fees should be a minimum of £12/night for a basic site with EHU - but there's plenty of CLs who either haven't been pressured or have ignored it as there's plenty of sites under that.
Caravan site pricing is very much "supply and demand" - in popular areas where there's high demand, prices can be double their level in unpopular areas - yet the CL/CS owners will face similar costs in both cases. On a recent tour I stayed at CLs with EHU that ranged from £7 to £15/night, because of their locality/positioning - both were excellent in their own way.
Communist-style price fixing simply doesn't apply any more - you can always see the prices before you book so the choice is yours.
Don't "cut your nose off to spite your face" - if the site is more expensive because it's nice and in a popular area, then it's worth it IF you particularly want a nice site in a popular area.
Dognatically, setting a limit will just preclude you from the nicest sites in the most popular areas.

 

[joeby]

we go reguarly to a former CL , which we pay £8 per night including electric , its just gone up to £8.50 , and he told us that the CC advised him to charge more , their were other things they were dictating to him , so he pulled out , and now runs this lovely site on his own . i was going there next week . but i found a week away in Majorca with good reviews , for £190.00 with flight and all meals , and free drinks in the bar until 11 pm , 3 swimming pools , with slides , gym , what caravan site can beat that

 

[Parksy]

Hi Jan

We use mainly C&CC certified sites when we're out and about and we've noticed that an average price for a CS which has a toilet, shower and ehu is often around £15, an increase from around £10 about five years ago.
The site owner has to pay for public liability insurance, water rates, electricity and possibly business council tax and these charges may have increased and are passed on to us through increased site fees.
The guy at the Certified Site in the village where the recent music festival where we recently met up is held (not naming names here

) is fully booked during the festival weekend with overspill from the festival site, and he significantly increases his pitch fees for that particular weekend which I think is a bit below the belt, but the law of supply and demand means that he can get away wth it.
We still know of one or two favourite certified sites where the pitch fee remains at around £10, but whenever we try out a site which is new to us we always phone frst to check availability, prices and whether ehu is included in the advertised price because sometimes it isn't.
A cheaper alternative if you are used to rally conditions would be to use a site which has ehu but no toilet and shower, but you only get what you pay for and even DA rallies are becoming more expensive in some cases.
When we are thinking of going off in the caravan I derive some satisfaction before we decide where to stay in using the internet to find bargain breaks, over 50s discounts and low season or midweek bargains.
It's surprising what is out there, especially on some commercially owned sites with full facilities where they want to fill the entertainment venues.

 

[RogerL]

I see no issue with prices going up at peak times - PROVIDED - that's clear at time of booking.
It's just free market economics - the same economics that wage negotiators use when demanding more pay !

 

[otherclive]

We've just booked a CL in the National Forest with EHU hard standings dog exercise area children etc and with toilet and shower (50p) for £11.50 a night including awning 2 dogs and one child. They charge the same rate all year.
We stayed on a nice commercial site in Hawes when I decided to cancel my CC booking on account of being latterly told no awning. Anyway Bainbridge Ings site will be charging normal rates for the period when the Tour de France arrives in Yorkshire. I think they should be applauded for not capitalising on what could be an opportunity to raise prices. Couldn't be proper Yorkshire folks)

 

[Gabsgrandad]

we go reguarly to a former CL , which we pay £8 per night including electric , its just gone up to £8.50 , and he told us that the CC advised him to charge more , their were other things they were dictating to him , so he pulled out , and now runs this lovely site on his own . i was going there next week . but i found a week away in Majorca with good reviews , for £190.00 with flight and all meals , and free drinks in the bar until 11 pm , 3 swimming pools , with slides , gym , what caravan site can beat that

Ah! but is that £190 x 2 ???

 

[Dustydog]

Our favourite cl in North Devon recently increased the nightly fee to £11. All inclusive 16amp EHU, water and new chemical waste disposal point. Dogs welcome. Toilet is also provided. The lady who runs it is 85 yrs. She charges the same all year round.
She'd rather charge more in winter when more electricity is used.

 

[Surfer]

Hi Jan

We use mainly C&CC certified sites when we're out and about and we've noticed that an average price for a CS which has a toilet, shower and ehu is often around £15, an increase from around £10 about five years ago.
The site owner has to pay for public liability insurance, water rates, electricity and possibly business council tax and these charges may have increased and are passed on to us through increased site fees.
The guy at the Certified Site in the village where the recent music festival where we recently met up is held (not naming names here

) is fully booked during the festival weekend with overspill from the festival site, and he significantly increases his pitch fees for that particular weekend which I think is a bit below the belt, but the law of supply and demand means that he can get away wth it.
We still know of one or two favourite certified sites where the pitch fee remains at around £10, but whenever we try out a site which is new to us we always phone frst to check availability, prices and whether ehu is included in the advertised price because sometimes it isn't.
A cheaper alternative if you are used to rally conditions would be to use a site which has ehu but no toilet and shower, but you only get what you pay for and even DA rallies are becoming more expensive in some cases.
When we are thinking of going off in the caravan I derive some satisfaction before we decide where to stay in using the internet to find bargain breaks, over 50s discounts and low season or midweek bargains.
It's surprising what is out there, especially on some commercially owned sites with full facilities where they want to fill the entertainment venues.

Surely if the CL or CS is part of a farm, they would have public liability insurance anyway? Water rates would be more than likely be included with the farm's supply so no different there as cost will remain the same. A farm is a business so they will pay those rates anyway regardless or not whether there is a CL or CS on it. Whether or not there is a CL or CS that area will have to be maintained anyway at some point. BTW isn't the music festival at a CL near Wye Piddle?
I think between £10 and £12 is a fair price for a CS or CL that has an EHU supply. Commercial premises pay a different rate to domestic and in many cases it is lower than a domestic premise. Many farms have 3 phase power and then use one of the phases to supply the CL so no huge additional bill. I know this as we did quite a few installations for farms.
Rallies may be the answer but to rally in any other season except summer can be expensive when you take into account the use of gas as a refill costs £23 and you can use a whole bottle on a cool weekend. A few CC sites without facilties like washrooms etc charge £11 per night including EHU so are a good deal and you won't get stuck.
We are still hoping to be able to afford to get solar panels installed but that is another story.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Its not as simple as just deciding to allow a few caravans onto a field, there are wider implications which will have associated costs.

Most liability insurers insist on knowing what form of business the policy is to cover. Different business attracts different Public Liability Risks, and so the premiums are adjusted accordingly.

Equally the local authority would be interested in change of use of land from agricultural to a service industry (Such as running a caravan site) Again such changes will attract different and probably higher rates.

There will also be costs associated with providing a safe water supply and drainage over and above that of agricultural use. The same will apply to electrical systems if provided.

 

[RogerL]

Its not as simple as just deciding to allow a few caravans onto a field, there are wider implications which will have associated costs.

Most liability insurers insist on knowing what form of business the policy is to cover. Different business attracts different Public Liability Risks, and so the premiums are adjusted accordingly.

Equally the local authority would be interested in change of use of land from agricultural to a service industry (Such as running a caravan site) Again such changes will attract different and probably higher rates.

There will also be costs associated with providing a safe water supply and drainage over and above that of agricultural use. The same will apply to electrical systems if provided.

In the case of a CL/CS, the club's exemption certificate gets them away from most local authority "interest".
Agricultural water supplies and electrical supplies are normally to the same standard as domestic so no real issue there.
There is a difference in costs between a householder using part of a large garden for a CL/CS and a business using a spare piece of land - the householder is probably not subject to VAT - the business probably is, so that's 20% of their income gone at a stroke.

 

[Surfer]

Its not as simple as just deciding to allow a few caravans onto a field, there are wider implications which will have associated costs.

Most liability insurers insist on knowing what form of business the policy is to cover. Different business attracts different Public Liability Risks, and so the premiums are adjusted accordingly.

Equally the local authority would be interested in change of use of land from agricultural to a service industry (Such as running a caravan site) Again such changes will attract different and probably higher rates.

There will also be costs associated with providing a safe water supply and drainage over and above that of agricultural use. The same will apply to electrical systems if provided.

In the case of a CL/CS, the club's exemption certificate gets them away from most local authority "interest".
Agricultural water supplies and electrical supplies are normally to the same standard as domestic so no real issue there.
There is a difference in costs between a householder using part of a large garden for a CL/CS and a business using a spare piece of land - the householder is probably not subject to VAT - the business probably is, so that's 20% of their income gone at a stroke.

I don't think VAT is charged for using a caravan pitch, but could be wrong.

 

[joeby]

Yes that is £190 per person , but that is still a good price , i dont have to go out to eat , my alcoholic drinks are in included , i have the choice of 3 swimming pools , now you work out the price of taking your caravan abroad with all the tolls and food and fuel ,

 

[Parksy]

Surely if the CL or CS is part of a farm, they would have public liability insurance anyway? Water rates would be more than likely be included with the farm's supply so no different there as cost will remain the same. A farm is a business so they will pay those rates anyway regardless or not whether there is a CL or CS on it. Whether or not there is a CL or CS that area will have to be maintained anyway at some point. BTW isn't the music festival at a CL near Wye Piddle?
I think between £10 and £12 is a fair price for a CS or CL that has an EHU supply. Commercial premises pay a different rate to domestic and in many cases it is lower than a domestic premise. Many farms have 3 phase power and then use one of the phases to supply the CL so no huge additional bill. I know this as we did quite a few installations for farms.
Rallies may be the answer but to rally in any other season except summer can be expensive when you take into account the use of gas as a refill costs £23 and you can use a whole bottle on a cool weekend. A few CC sites without facilties like washrooms etc charge £11 per night including EHU so are a good deal and you won't get stuck.
We are still hoping to be able to afford to get solar panels installed but that is another story.

I'm not familiar with the way that public liability insurance for Certified sites or locations operates but I'd have thought that the premiums will have risen over the years, as have electricity and water charges, and some of the price increases would be passed on.
I know the site at the delightfully named Wyre Piddle, but the festival that we went to was in Bedfordshire and we stay at a certified site in the village before the music festival, which has it's own on site camping, opens.
We've become fair weather ralliers, there's not much joy in being on a farmers field when the weather is cold and damp and the solar panel is hardly generating enough power for our tv, so in these austere times we've become more selective about when we go away in the caravan because we've got a nice centrally heated house to relax in (now with it's own set of solar panels to cut down on electricity bills

).

 

[ProfJohnL]

The inland revenue will provide clarification, but even running a CL/CS is a business, and that will attract VAT.

 

[RogerL]

The inland revenue will provide clarification, but even running a CL/CS is a business, and that will attract VAT.

Perhaps I should have made the point differently - a CL/CS which is part of a large garden and more-or-less the only business income for the householder is likely to be under the VAT threshold - that's why CL/CS are sometimes in the partner's name rather than the person who actually runs it.
Bigger businesses which include a CL/CS will often be well over the VAT threshold so 20% VAT will need to be accounted for..

 

[otherclive]

Generally the CL/CS will be established as a seperate bsuiness to the farm or the owners normal business. That way its liabilties can be seperated out. For tax purposes it is unlikley to come under VAT rules as the VAT registration threshold is £77000 and for a 5 van site with 100% bookings for the year their income would only be £28k if charging£15pn. For Revenue purposes there will be legitimate expenses that can be offset against income ie electric, water, sewerage, maintenace, cleaning, groundworks and replacements, insurances, commercial waste collection. Upgrades cannot normally be set against income but this depends on the way in which the CL/CS is registered with HMRC. Believe me running a small enterprise is not as simple as some would like to think, and the owners dont have the advantages of scale that mainline sites have.

 

[lucylogic]

Well thank you everyone for your replies, they have been interesting. I should say that the CL site I referred to, the £8 to £15 one, told me that they were told (probably advised) that they should put up their prices. That they should charge for only 2 people per unit, irrespective of whether it's a 2 berth or 6 berth van, that way they can get more money, same with the awning, porch or full, and the dog/s be it/they Chihuahua or a St Bernard, it all adds up. And they listened (bet they rubbed their hands with glee). It seems that most of the sites have now adopted that method of pricing and we are now parting with at least an extra £5+ per night.
We prefer CL/CC sites, all we need on a site is a toilet and a shower, although the shower is not strictly necessary now that we have a working shower in this van, and a fairly quiet site. I hate kids with balls that play near the vans when there is a big empty space at the bottom of the field. Another annoyance is that some of them with dogs do not keep them tethered near their tents or caravans and just let them loose. My dog is always tethered and always on a lead at walkies time and I clean up after her, which is more than I can say about some owners whose dogs just s*it where they need to.
The site we stay at now even she confirmed the above pricing but she declined the advice given and stayed at her own pricing which I think is great. People will vote with their feet or wheels and move elsewhere if prices get too steep. However if you want to pay £20+ per night for the babysitting service they provide with the playgrounds, pools, arcades etc while you sit there with other like minded people then that is up to you. From what I've seen, and we have been to one such site, it's so the adults don't have the bother of keeping their young ones amused the whole time. I thought that was what camping/caravanning was all about!! Or am I too old fashioned after all this time (38 years of camping and caravanning).
With having internet access I generally have a look for smallish sites on UKCampsite, or else some are noted in Practical Caravan in the site reviews. I also have a caravan site finder app on my phone which comes in handy.
With not going to Twinwood next year we have decided to go down to Brixham so will be looking for caravan sites in that area. Any suggestions folks.
Many thanks
Jan aka lucylogic

 

[RogerL]

It obviously depends where in the country you want to go caravanning but my brother & sister-in-law always use CLs with shower and toilet and still manage to pay no more than we do for just a basic EHU, typically £10-11/night but have found less, recently - and they use an awning and have two dogs - so there's plenty of CLs who aren't toeing the CC line. It's rare that we find a "not again" CL between us.

 

[otherclive]

I thought the OP was about pricing, having a swipe at dogs and children could open a Pandora's box. Mention 4x4s and it really would take off!

 

[ProfJohnL]

Clive,

You've done it now! you have mentioned the unmemntionable, I suppose I should be be thankful no one has mentioned the Elepahnt & Lampost risk offset company, religion and politics ......

OOPS

 

[Parksy]

No Problem