Caravan Weight. Carefull.

[otherclive]

Having to pay for an upgrade to a caravans payload is just one big money making exercise, in the first place which ever way you look at what weights a caravan can legally carry comes down to what weight the axle is plated for , so just paying £60 you can then put more on your payload doe's not seem right. To make comparison with L G V,s, I have driven many lorries that have been down plated from their maximum gross because the nature of the work that they do doe's not justify the higher rate of road fund licence they have to pay, more weight an L G V carries more money you cough up, a 17 ton lorry pays far less than a 44ton lorry, HOW the caravan industry get away with is is just bizarre, because in the first place you don't pay an road fund tax on a caravan or any other type of trailer be it an L G V or horsebox.

There’s no point in comparing the aluminium money pits and the real world. There’s many more instances where caravans don’t abide by the norms of the real world. You have to accept it or change your hobby I guess.

 

[camel]

Sorry to agree but disagree, I can't see a motor home owner going back to the maufacturer and saying i would like an increase in my payload without having the axles upgraded which is what it is all about, HOW can they upgrade a caravans payload without doing anything to the caravan, so if two exactly matched outfits are pulled in for checks and does have a bit of paper saying that you have a payload weight of this and the other outfit does not well it's justbearings to me.

 

[otherclive]

Sorry to agree but disagree, I can't see a motor home owner going back to the maufacturer and saying i would like an increase in my payload without having the axles upgraded which is what it is all about, HOW can they upgrade a caravans payload without doing anything to the caravan, so if two exactly matched outfits are pulled in for checks and does have a bit of paper saying that you have a payload weight of this and the other outfit does not well it's justbearings to me.

I have known a motorhome owner who did pay to have it upgraded without any physical change to the vehicle. The previous owner had it downplated to 3500 kg on reaching 70 years of age. The new owner had it replated back to its original plated weight. He had to pay for the admin, new certificate, new plate and I guess reissue of the DVSA documents. But no physical changes.

The problem with U.K. caravans is the perception of the 85% guidance, keeping MTPLM low in order to attract owners of lighter vehicles when if you had a higher MTPLM those with lighter vehicles don’t have to load the caravan to its maximum. As was said in another thread it’s a particular British trait.

 

[camel]

I have said that in my previous post about
vehicles being down plated and there is nothing to stop it being put back to its original plated weight be it l g v or motor home if the vehicles specification has not been messed about with. , right time for a can in the van.

 

[ProfJohnL]

I found it very frustrating that the upgrade to the payload made absolutely no change to the caravan whatsoever - it was about £60 (plus postage!) for a new sticker allowing us an extra 50kg (from memory). That's for a Bailey Pegasus twin axle. I simply contacted their product dept and they sent one out. Daylight robbery?:

Hello Harby,

To you it may make no difference, but the caravan manufacture does have to make a number of official changes so the records relating to that chassis number do show an increased MTPLM, other wise when or if the authorities do check you over, they may see a data plate on your caravan with and increased MTPLM, but the manufacturers records would show the lower value.

Changes to documentation do cost a business money, so its fair they do charge. Whether the amount they charge is fair is a different question.

Preempting what your next question might be - Why don't they just make all the caravans with the higher MTPLM? - the matter is related partly to the 85% guidance, but more specifically for the increasing number drivers who don't have entitlement BE on their licences.

Cat B licences restrict the driver to an outfit whose combined Maximum Authorised Mass (MAM) does not exceed 3500kg. A caravan's MTPLM is its MAM, and by keeping it to a slightly lower level, it makes legal to tow with a greater number of cars, so more people may be prepared to buy one.

Contrary to a point that was made earlier, the axle load limit is not the maximum permitted weight for a caravan. Caravans in common with some other types of vehicles may use a chassis that has a greater carrying capacity than the trailer manufactures states, but becasue the trailer's manufactured by a separate company who constructs the body work, it is they who set the maximum legal weight the trailer can be.

For a simplified analogy, its like a chain is only as strong as its weakest link.

 

[Lutz]

As discussed to death in another forum, the so-called plate by the door (actually usually a sticker) has no legal bearing if it doesn't comply with the requirements for a statutory plate - and many of them don't. On a caravan built after implementation of whole vehicle type approval (in most cases Oct 2014) to be legal, it's also got to display the type approval number and the maximum permitted axle loads. If it doesn't, it's not a legal plate and one will probably find another plate, the actual statutory one, in the front locker and that is binding.
Often the sticker next to the door serves only to confirm that the caravan meets NCC approval, but NCC approval has nothing to do with what legislation requires.

 

[otherclive]

I’ve given up with the sticker next to the door as it’s now illegible. So carry my new sticker inside the van. My other plate is on the front locker lid.

 

[camel]

A trailer , horse box or caravan when they are manufactured cannot exceed the axle plated axle weight on the axcles they use regardless of who puts on the body.

 

[Lutz]

I’ve given up with the sticker next to the door as it’s now illegible. So carry my new sticker inside the van. My other plate is on the front locker lid.

You'll probably find that the MTPLM shown on the plate on the front locker lid showed a higher figure than what was on the original sticker next to the door, in which case which one was right? Only one of the two can be and that must be the statutory plate on the front locker lid. You could throw away the sticker inside the van if it's just a repeat of what's on the locker lid except that it does give a little further useful information such as tyre pressures, etc..

A trailer , horse box or caravan when they are manufactured cannot exceed the axle plated axle weight on the axcles they use regardless of who puts on the body.

It also mustn't exceed the plated MTPLM and that can be less than the plated maximum axle loads.

 

[Raywood]

I take it the difference is down to the plate being the chassis manufacturer and the sticker the caravan manufacturers. It is well known that the caravan manufacturers do go for a lower MTPLM than the chassis is able to take in many cases but as I understand it if the caravan manufacturer gives an MTPLM which is less than the chassis manufacturers then it is the caravan one that counts..

 

[Lutz]

I take it the difference is down to the plate being the chassis manufacturer and the sticker the caravan manufacturers. It is well known that the caravan manufacturers do go for a lower MTPLM than the chassis is able to take in many cases but as I understand it if the caravan manufacturer gives an MTPLM which is less than the chassis manufacturers then it is the caravan one that counts..

No, the plate on or in the front locker is also the caravan manufacturer's plate. You will find that it carries his name. There will also be a third plate on the chassis itself and that is the one that the chassis manufacturer provides. However, it is always the statutory plate of the caravan manufacturer that counts.

 

[camel]

And the MTPLM cannot exceed the axle.

 

[Lutz]

And the MTPLM cannot exceed the axle.

It could theoretically as the MTPLM is the sum of the axle load and the noseweight, but in practice I have never come across an MTPLM that is higher than the maximum axle load.

 

[ProfJohnL]

The next we will see is someone suggesting that becasue A TA has 4 tyres which are rated 1000kg each, the whole caravan could weigh upto 4000kg!! :woohoo:

Its a perfectly logical process, that where supporting parts are sourced from a variety of different standard parts, you will select components that will take the stresses and strains of the of what they are carrying in their stride.

Caravan manufactures have to design their body work to carry its own weight plus any payload, and they will have their design protocols that will set out what their body can carry. There choice of chassis components will be from a a standard range of parts and of course they will have to choose the parts which match as closely as possible but never less than the capacity of the body. Similarly tyre type size and pressure, though there might be better deal on a higher capacity tyre.

 

[otherclive]

I’ve given up with the sticker next to the door as it’s now illegible. So carry my new sticker inside the van. My other plate is on the front locker lid.

You'll probably find that the MTPLM shown on the plate on the front locker lid showed a higher figure than what was on the original sticker next to the door, in which case which one was right? Only one of the two can be and that must be the statutory plate on the front locker lid. You could throw away the sticker inside the van if it's just a repeat of what's on the locker lid except that it does give a little further useful information such as tyre pressures, etc..

A trailer , horse box or caravan when they are manufactured cannot exceed the axle plated axle weight on the axcles they use regardless of who puts on the body.

It also mustn't exceed the plated MTPLM and that can be less than the plated maximum axle loads.

Bit of an error re the location of the makers plate. The one on the locker lid is very unclear but seems to be the spec for the locker and front grp panel as I can make out what I think refers to gel coat and paint code. But it’s very weathered as to be useless.
The makers plate is on the bulkhead next to the sticker that refers to the gas regulator. It has the Chassis Number, a figure of 1300kg below the chassis number. Then on row 0 it has 100kg which would be the chassis noseweight limit. On row 1 there is 1300kg. Rows 2 and 3 being blank.

There is no information other than the above. It is solely a chassis specific load plate.

 

[Brasso530]

Sorry to keep going over things,but mine is similar plated to Clive.From memory my elddis has the usual sticker by the door with a mtplm of 1253, but there's a sticker on gas locker bulkhead that says 100kg(assume nose weight) then 1300kg underneath.( assume this is chassis mtplm).
I tried to find out why both plates are different,couldn't find any info.As we usually are packed to the rafters (so to speak) with kids and stuff,does this mean that if pulled over by vosa my legal max is 1300?
P.s I'll double check both plates at work tomorrow,just to clarify.

 

[Lutz]

Bit of an error re the location of the makers plate. The one on the locker lid is very unclear but seems to be the spec for the locker and front grp panel as I can make out what I think refers to gel coat and paint code. But it’s very weathered as to be useless.
The makers plate is on the bulkhead next to the sticker that refers to the gas regulator. It has the Chassis Number, a figure of 1300kg below the chassis number. Then on row 0 it has 100kg which would be the chassis noseweight limit. On row 1 there is 1300kg. Rows 2 and 3 being blank.

There is no information other than the above. It is solely a chassis specific load plate.

The statutory plate can be anywhere so long as it is attached to something that cannot be readily replaced. That is why it is often inside the front locker, but it doesn't have to be there.

If the caravan was built after whole vehicle type approval was introduced fully in 2014 (some caravans already earlier) then it must have a statutory plate that shows, among other things, 1) the MTPLM, 2) the maximum allowable noseweight and 3) the maximum permissible axle load(s). This plate must also display the type approval number.

Sorry to keep going over things,but mine is similar plated to Clive.From memory my elddis has the usual sticker by the door with a mtplm of 1253, but there's a sticker on gas locker bulkhead that says 100kg(assume nose weight) then 1300kg underneath.( assume this is chassis mtplm).
I tried to find out why both plates are different,couldn't find any info.As we usually are packed to the rafters (so to speak) with kids and stuff,does this mean that if pulled over by vosa my legal max is 1300?
P.s I'll double check both plates at work tomorrow,just to clarify.

In your case the sticker by the door is purely for guidance only. It has no legal significance because it doesn't comply with the requirements for a statutory plate. I would expect the plate in the gas locker of your caravan to state 1300kg twice, once as the actual MTPLM and below that again as the maximum permissible axle load.