We have had our caravan for about a month and we are just checking everything through prior to going away for the first time in it this weekend. Everything seems to work fine except the waterheater. I have screwed in the drain plug and opened the taps but the waterpump seems to just cycle in one second bursts and no water is coming from the hot tap. There is also no light on the thermostat panel.The previous owner seems to have fitted a switch next to the sink which will turn the pump on and off as if left the pump just continues to cycle. I have checked all the fuses I can find and there does appear to be water in the tanks itself. Is there anything anyone can suggest as without hot water we'll be forced into the shower block this weekend!
Carver Cascade, first time user
- Thread starter Mark_374361904
- Start date
If the water pump is running with one second bursts while the hot tap is open, it would suggest that there is some restriction - if it was completely blocked then the pump would not run at all - unless there is a leak elsewhere - If there was free passage then I would expect the pump to be running continuously.
My first suspicion would be a stuck or improperly opening one way valve on the heater inlet, particularly if it has not been used for a while. A small flow through this would mean that it would take a very long time to fill the heater with water, although after a while it would get some in it, and even longer still before a dribble eventually comes out of the hot tap!
My first suspicion would be a stuck or improperly opening one way valve on the heater inlet, particularly if it has not been used for a while. A small flow through this would mean that it would take a very long time to fill the heater with water, although after a while it would get some in it, and even longer still before a dribble eventually comes out of the hot tap!
Thanks for the fast reply. If I disconnect the cold water supply just before the non return elbow under the heater the pump should then stop cycling and pump continously if the elbow is blocked then, yes? As regards the green light on the control panel, does this only come on once the tank is full or is this a second fault?
Many thanks
Mark
Many thanks
Mark
First part: Yes it should.
Second part:
Assuming it is the same as mine (an old gas only model) the light should come on as soon as you flick the switch. A steady light shows that all is well, a flashing light means there is a fault - Flame out or overheat tripped. There is no low water level indicator or cut out, so even with no water in it the light would come on - well until it overheats and trips out, and even then it would be flashing.
When used for the first time after changing bottles or after a period out of use it may not light first time, so the light stays steady for about 8 seconds during the lighting procedure, but starts flashing when it times out and has not lit. Switching it off and on again resets this and it will try to light again.
If you have no light at all you need to check that you are getting a good 12V supply, I think it needs to be at least 10.5V as the unit cuts out at this voltage IIRC.
Second part:
Assuming it is the same as mine (an old gas only model) the light should come on as soon as you flick the switch. A steady light shows that all is well, a flashing light means there is a fault - Flame out or overheat tripped. There is no low water level indicator or cut out, so even with no water in it the light would come on - well until it overheats and trips out, and even then it would be flashing.
When used for the first time after changing bottles or after a period out of use it may not light first time, so the light stays steady for about 8 seconds during the lighting procedure, but starts flashing when it times out and has not lit. Switching it off and on again resets this and it will try to light again.
If you have no light at all you need to check that you are getting a good 12V supply, I think it needs to be at least 10.5V as the unit cuts out at this voltage IIRC.
Also, the non return valves are available as spares, your local caravan dealer should stock them and they are not expensive - although the ones I saw were just straight through versions, ie no elbow, so you will have to check if they fit OK.
Biggest problem is getting the old one out - on mine the plastic had gone brittle and it was screwed in tightly, so there was no way of undoing it without destroying it. Unfortunately I could not get all the broken parts out so I resorted to araldite and an in line non return valve which seems to have done the trick so far...
Biggest problem is getting the old one out - on mine the plastic had gone brittle and it was screwed in tightly, so there was no way of undoing it without destroying it. Unfortunately I could not get all the broken parts out so I resorted to araldite and an in line non return valve which seems to have done the trick so far...
You can download a Cascade manual from my website; www.arcsystems.biz
Heres a quick overview:
The Carver Cascade 2 is a 9 litre storage water heater, which when running on gas will heat the water to 65deg c in about 45 minutes. On 240V mains assuming it has this facility, the time can be somewhat longer or shorter depending on the wattage (630w 3amp to 840w 5amp) of the element fitted, you can use both gas and electric together for faster times.
To operate the gas there is a wall switch or a switch within a main control panel, either way both have three lights green, amber and red. When switched on the green lights, (water tank must be full, i.e. water coming from hot taps), if it stays on after about 8 seconds then the gas has lit and all is well. If the green is joined by the red then you may have a problem, but if the gas bottle has just been changed then air in the pipes will have to be bled through by repeating the above 2 or 3 times. Once lit, and it should light without any pops and bangs, (this would indicate it needs a service), the heater looks after itself and gives constant hot water. Any problems will cause it to shut down safely and show the red light. Forget the amber light, it's to show low voltage and won't light unless the voltage is so low the heater and everything else packed up long since, though you may notice it 'flash' as the switch is turned on or off.
The 240v emersion heater if fitted is totally separate, and lies behind a white plastic box on the inboard end of the water tank. It is controlled by a switch, often close by and at floor level, but again sometimes as part of a remote control panel. The switch has a red light to show it's "on", not that it's working, this will be determined by the water getting hot. If it does not then it may have "tripped" Two types exist, early circa 1990 are non-re-settable but are repairable. Later models have a Red button on the end of the plastic box which is sometimes behind a little flap. Switch off mains, and press to reset.
Other faults concerning the gas side very often come down to the "Burner Module". This handy little unit contains the burner, gas valve and all the electronics which control it and is accessible from behind the cover outside of the van. In the event things go wrong it's a 5 minute job to replace it, with a new or serviced exchange unit. One other safety device is a wax filled 'fusible' plug, this again is behind the outer cover and shows itself as a 13 mm nut set in the fins above the burner. The wax will melt if things get too hot allowing hot water from the tank to spray over the burner and put the flame out. This will render things safe but will require a new module because it's control circuitry is faulty. However given if the fuse 'blows' without the water apparently getting to hot then replacing the plug will be sufficient. The point to note here is that over time the wax in the plug degrades or the threads leak, at the very least allowing water to seep onto the burner causing it to rust and eventually will still require replacement of the whole burner module.
Further problems that come to light in spring is the discovery of frost damage to the water tank, the non-return valve which is part of the cold water inlet and other plastic fittings. Failing to drain the heater when there is a chance of temperatures dropping below freezing can be very expensive to repair and should be avoided by removing the drain bung and allowing the heater to drain completely. Later models have a valve above the drain hole in the top left corner of the flue cowl, these have a 'toggle' showing that when turned a
Heres a quick overview:
The Carver Cascade 2 is a 9 litre storage water heater, which when running on gas will heat the water to 65deg c in about 45 minutes. On 240V mains assuming it has this facility, the time can be somewhat longer or shorter depending on the wattage (630w 3amp to 840w 5amp) of the element fitted, you can use both gas and electric together for faster times.
To operate the gas there is a wall switch or a switch within a main control panel, either way both have three lights green, amber and red. When switched on the green lights, (water tank must be full, i.e. water coming from hot taps), if it stays on after about 8 seconds then the gas has lit and all is well. If the green is joined by the red then you may have a problem, but if the gas bottle has just been changed then air in the pipes will have to be bled through by repeating the above 2 or 3 times. Once lit, and it should light without any pops and bangs, (this would indicate it needs a service), the heater looks after itself and gives constant hot water. Any problems will cause it to shut down safely and show the red light. Forget the amber light, it's to show low voltage and won't light unless the voltage is so low the heater and everything else packed up long since, though you may notice it 'flash' as the switch is turned on or off.
The 240v emersion heater if fitted is totally separate, and lies behind a white plastic box on the inboard end of the water tank. It is controlled by a switch, often close by and at floor level, but again sometimes as part of a remote control panel. The switch has a red light to show it's "on", not that it's working, this will be determined by the water getting hot. If it does not then it may have "tripped" Two types exist, early circa 1990 are non-re-settable but are repairable. Later models have a Red button on the end of the plastic box which is sometimes behind a little flap. Switch off mains, and press to reset.
Other faults concerning the gas side very often come down to the "Burner Module". This handy little unit contains the burner, gas valve and all the electronics which control it and is accessible from behind the cover outside of the van. In the event things go wrong it's a 5 minute job to replace it, with a new or serviced exchange unit. One other safety device is a wax filled 'fusible' plug, this again is behind the outer cover and shows itself as a 13 mm nut set in the fins above the burner. The wax will melt if things get too hot allowing hot water from the tank to spray over the burner and put the flame out. This will render things safe but will require a new module because it's control circuitry is faulty. However given if the fuse 'blows' without the water apparently getting to hot then replacing the plug will be sufficient. The point to note here is that over time the wax in the plug degrades or the threads leak, at the very least allowing water to seep onto the burner causing it to rust and eventually will still require replacement of the whole burner module.
Further problems that come to light in spring is the discovery of frost damage to the water tank, the non-return valve which is part of the cold water inlet and other plastic fittings. Failing to drain the heater when there is a chance of temperatures dropping below freezing can be very expensive to repair and should be avoided by removing the drain bung and allowing the heater to drain completely. Later models have a valve above the drain hole in the top left corner of the flue cowl, these have a 'toggle' showing that when turned a
Hello Mark,
My suspicion is that you have a Cascade Mk1 heater, If so it has a copper mushroom shaped tank covered by a red insulation jacket, and all the water connections are under the caravan floor. You have the revised control switch which is beige brown with a single green LED, a smoked plastic rotary temperature control and an on/off switch
This explains your description of the 'non return elbow under the heater'
The lack of water flow could well be a severely restricted non return valve, but I really don't know if any one carries spares for this particular model.
When the heater is working correctly, you would turn it on at the wall switch. You might here a slight thud as the gas valve opens followed by some ticking as the igniter operates. If a flame is established and recognised, the ticking stops. as the water comes up to temperature, the controller turns the gas off and waits for the temperature to drop when it will automatically relight the gas.
No light on the thermostat panel either suggest no power reaching the panel, or the panel is faulty. Spares for this model of heater are now very rare.
My suspicion is that you have a Cascade Mk1 heater, If so it has a copper mushroom shaped tank covered by a red insulation jacket, and all the water connections are under the caravan floor. You have the revised control switch which is beige brown with a single green LED, a smoked plastic rotary temperature control and an on/off switch
This explains your description of the 'non return elbow under the heater'
The lack of water flow could well be a severely restricted non return valve, but I really don't know if any one carries spares for this particular model.
When the heater is working correctly, you would turn it on at the wall switch. You might here a slight thud as the gas valve opens followed by some ticking as the igniter operates. If a flame is established and recognised, the ticking stops. as the water comes up to temperature, the controller turns the gas off and waits for the temperature to drop when it will automatically relight the gas.
No light on the thermostat panel either suggest no power reaching the panel, or the panel is faulty. Spares for this model of heater are now very rare.
Thanks for all the advice everyone. I think it is most likely to be a MK1 water heater as it looks just as you described John. Also there is no sign of a red light. Just a green one. I drained it down again last night as we will not be using it away this weekend and it seemed to have filled with alot of water suggesting that the valve may not be at fault. In view of the rarity of parts I might have to abandon my inital plan of asking a dealer to overhaul it. If I have to replace it with a more current model what options are there? What sort of costs are involved? Cost is a factor as the van itself is reasonably elderly and therefore not really worth a great deal.
Well spotted John, I took 'under' to mean bottom left!
Still not quite right about spares, I have all required ones including new water inlet/outlets. No problem also with control switches
I have to say though, the non-return valve in my experience always sticks open!
I would Mark check the two 1A inline fuses you will find close to the heater
Still not quite right about spares, I have all required ones including new water inlet/outlets. No problem also with control switches
I have to say though, the non-return valve in my experience always sticks open!
I would Mark check the two 1A inline fuses you will find close to the heater
Hi Mark,
Most of the answers you have been given are obviously been given by people who do not use their showers,
What you do is when you have adjusted the mix of hot and cold water you just wet yourself(not we) over then lather yourself with your shower gel then wash off.Whilst lathering yourself you turn off the water,as soon as you have done that you just turn on the water and wash the lather off.This way you will save water plus gas and electricity.With the small amount of water in the boiler unfortunately one can't shower as one would at home.This is what we do and we've been caravanning for many years.Give it a try and good luck and happy caravanning ,its a great hobby.Jimbob
Most of the answers you have been given are obviously been given by people who do not use their showers,
What you do is when you have adjusted the mix of hot and cold water you just wet yourself(not we) over then lather yourself with your shower gel then wash off.Whilst lathering yourself you turn off the water,as soon as you have done that you just turn on the water and wash the lather off.This way you will save water plus gas and electricity.With the small amount of water in the boiler unfortunately one can't shower as one would at home.This is what we do and we've been caravanning for many years.Give it a try and good luck and happy caravanning ,its a great hobby.Jimbob
Er, was that last post supposed to be in the 'how long does your shower run hot' topic?
Mark, I would not write off the heater just yet, the fact that it was full of water still supports my theory of it being the non return valve or some other restriction. It is full of water as there was some water getting past the valve and slowly filling the tank - it may be that the valve is sticking and not allowing sufficient flow - it may even be possible to un stick it once removed and perhaps replace the o-ring seal on it.
It would be a shame to condemn the heater if all that is wrong with it was a loose connection and a stuck valve which might cost you nothing to repair if you do it yourself - or at worse a fiver for a new valve from your local caravan dealer - mine still stocks them albeit without the elbow.
Mark, I would not write off the heater just yet, the fact that it was full of water still supports my theory of it being the non return valve or some other restriction. It is full of water as there was some water getting past the valve and slowly filling the tank - it may be that the valve is sticking and not allowing sufficient flow - it may even be possible to un stick it once removed and perhaps replace the o-ring seal on it.
It would be a shame to condemn the heater if all that is wrong with it was a loose connection and a stuck valve which might cost you nothing to repair if you do it yourself - or at worse a fiver for a new valve from your local caravan dealer - mine still stocks them albeit without the elbow.
Actually on closer inspection the straight through type is for the cascade mark II. I expect that the thread size would be the same so it may well still fit, although clearance to the rubber cover over the burner connections might be a bit tight.
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