Carver Cascade mk 2 problem

[Dr_Greg]

Hi there.
I'm searching through the topics, and can't find the answer.
I've aulde Lunar Moonlight 5 with Carver Cascade mk 2 in it. Untill recent the water heater worked perfect on gas. Just recently I had runned out of it (well our lovelly aunty turned the tap off), with 1st green and amber light comming up on the panel, then green and red light on.
I had switched the gas on, now green light only is lit, but no spark coms on, gas cylinder is on but not much gas left judging by the weight of the cylinder. Running it on Propane-Butane yellow cylinder with 29mBar reguctor. Any help will be greatly appreciated. Thank you

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello Dr Greg.

I have tried to work out when your caravan was manufactured. All I can find is it was in the 1990's and at that time the UK had different regulator pressures for Butane (28mBar) and Propane (37mBar). Some appliances may not work 100% correctly, if they are supplied with gas at the wrong pressure. Whilst your 29mBar is not strictly to UK specifications, it is likely the Cascade 2 would operate and do so safely.

There were changes to the control system during that period, so you might want to google cascade control switches to help identify your exact model.

The other possibly important feature for most of the Cascade 2 heater sold in the 1990's is they had mains powered electric elements that used a separate control system to the gas side. It is safe to use both gas and electric heating simultaneously with the benefit it reheats the tank of water in less time.

Th green LED means the appliance is turned on and power is connected. The heater will only turn on the gas and try to ignite it if the tank temperature falls below the systems thermostat threshold (about 65C)

The Red LED indicates the heater has tried to ignite the gas but has failed to detect a flame within about 8S of trying. The heater goes to lock out and requires the systems to be turned off and on again .

The Amber light indicates the supply voltage is below what it should be

If the water temperature is low and the supply of gas to the heater does fail (either a bottle emptying or the gas tap turned off) the heater will go red lock out.

Where the problem seems to be is you have turned the heater on, but you haven't heard it try to ignite. Assuming the heater is working correctly, then it could mean the water is already hot enough and does not require heating. This can happen if you have the electric element turned on, as this will heat the water to about 70C which is higher than the gas sides thermostat point.

I suggest you visit http://www.arcsystems.biz where you can download a set of Cascade 2 Rapide instructions which will cover the operation of your heater.

Gary at Arc is quite a guru on Carver products, and if you are still having problems contact him - he often contributes to this forum.

 

[Dr_Greg]

Hi ProfJohnL
Thank you. I guess she's '90s build. I had found the isolator switch for mains and turned it off so takn and water is cold allright. There was no gas regulaor when I bought the caravan, so I had got one in the hardware store. I had read the manual before purchasing so got the one within the mBar range. Unfortunatelly due to my working weekend on the yellow and green taxi, I've no way of connecting it to the full butane cylinder. That will definitelly first thing to do on Monday when I'm off. And see is that the gas pressure causing it.
The ctrl panel is the old type with glass fuses and earphone connector too.

Thank you Prof. I'll have a look at the website you segested too, thank you.

 

[Hutch]

Dr Greg, When you say your running on " Yellow " propane / butane gas, is this a refillable cylinder, like Gaslow etc, as Calor use red and Blue cylinders, patio gas use green .
Where does the Yellow cylinder come from, come on Prof , you should have noticed this, mate.

 

[Hutch]

:S Dr Gred on a maybe , on a bit newer caravan, if we have any hick up on our water heating / heater and a warning light comes on we have to switch off all power to the unit and restart. Good luck ,
Of course maybe your pressure in the cylinder is just to low to get through the system.

 

[Damian]

:S Dr Gred on a maybe , on a bit newer caravan, if we have any hick up on our water heating / heater and a warning light comes on we have to switch off all power to the unit and restart. Good luck ,
Of course maybe your pressure in the cylinder is just to low to get through the system.

That does not apply to the Carver Cascade heaters, they are much more basic than that.

 

[Damian]

Dr Greg, When you say your running on " Yellow " propane / butane gas, is this a refillable cylinder, like Gaslow etc, as Calor use red and Blue cylinders, patio gas use green .
Where does the Yellow cylinder come from, come on Prof , you should have noticed this, mate.

Yellow cylinders are normally associated with FloGas

 

[VicMallows]

Dr Greg, When you say your running on " Yellow " propane / butane gas, is this a refillable cylinder, like Gaslow etc, as Calor use red and Blue cylinders, patio gas use green .

Flogas butane cylinders are (a dirty) yellow.

 

[Dr_Greg]

I guess it is Butane, darkish yellow 11.34 kg cylinder, exchange in the local hardware/farmers shop. Reductor with the push down safety collar.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Dr Greg, When you say your running on " Yellow " propane / butane gas, is this a refillable cylinder, like Gaslow etc, as Calor use red and Blue cylinders, patio gas use green .
Where does the Yellow cylinder come from, come on Prof , you should have noticed this, mate.

There are many different suppliers of LPG, there is no requirement for them to follow a colour code for the bottles. Each supplier can have a different colour scheme to identify their own bottles. The only requirement is the printing on the bottle must identify its content.

The supplier of the gas is irrelevant. all Butane and Propane sold to the general public will compliant with the commercial standards. What is important is the correct pressure regulator that must be used.

If any suppliers cylinder is empty the Cascade should show green followed by red indicating it has failed to detect a flame.

 

[Dr_Greg]

Dr Greg, When you say your running on " Yellow " propane / butane gas, is this a refillable cylinder, like Gaslow etc, as Calor use red and Blue cylinders, patio gas use green .
Where does the Yellow cylinder come from, come on Prof , you should have noticed this, mate.

There are many different suppliers of LPG, there is no requirement for them to follow a colour code for the bottles. Each supplier can have a different colour scheme to identify their own bottles. The only requirement is the printing on the bottle must identify its content.

The supplier of the gas is irrelevant. all Butane and Propane sold to the general public will compliant with the commercial standards. What is important is the correct pressure regulator that must be used.

If any suppliers cylinder is empty the Cascade should show green followed by red indicating it has failed to detect a flame.

Hi Prof
Thank you
It is a Butane cylinder. On the day in question it had shown the above : green + red, however since I had discovered the tap (regulator) been off, the green indicator stays on (no red) and the sparker will not spark, it just stays green with no action. I had attempted with and without the isolator switch with 5min interval several times, and it was still the same. I may get new (reffiled cylinder) of Butane today and try it again. It was working absolutely fine untill recent events. Stranger things.

 

[Dr_Greg]

Hi there.
He's stillat at, so the update is:
I had found out, that my Carver is the 1983 model that I believe has no electric part.
Mon. AM I had replaced the Butane cylinder for the new one, and guess what, still the same.
In the afternoon I got hold on my friends Carver Cascade Mk2 GE that he had replace (lucky him) for the new Whale heater. I had replaced the "igniting/flame" part, it does klick, desnt give a spark and after few sec. the red light comes on. I had managed to light the flames externally and it worked. Reseted a few times, still no ignition. There is an additional 4 pin inlet in the 1998 version and I wonder does it have something to do with ingition or the GE (submertion) part. Oh... Beauty of the good aulde caravan bringing to life. Reminds me of the "Bringing out of dead" classic.

 

[ProfJohnL]

The 1983 model was one of the first Cascade 2 models, and as you say it didn't have the mains electric element.

The additional 4 pins on the 1988 burner control module were just an alternative wiring arrangement to enable caravan manufactures could fit the switch control into their own control panels. It had nothing to do with the electric element which always had entirely separate wiring and control.

The symptom you are describing suggests that both your old burner control module and the later one are both faulty. You may be lucky and find a replacement on Ebay, or there are companies that do offer refurbishment.

I believe Arc Systems were offering such a service.

Incidentally there was company that made a copy of the Cascade called Henry. Most parts are interchangeable.

 

[Dr_Greg]

Hi John.
I wonder is it the ctrl panel inside the caravan, the one with the switch and 3 leds?
The 1998 burner was sparking well before it was taking away from friends caravan.
I may contac Henry (is it Henry in Arc?) to come up with fix or solution for the above. It is very annoying, having water heater without the hot water on the taps, especialky when camping away from the camp sites.
Thank you John.

 

[ProfJohnL]

The switch panel on the pre 1988 model would not cause the symptoms you have described. The green only shows that power is connected and turned on, The red is controlled from the Burner control module. The yellow does have some voltage sensing circuitry and if it illuminates it prevents the Burner control module from even opening the gas valve, As a result of you telling me the heater is stone cold, if the gas valve opens but there is no ignition spark it means the burner control module is faulty.

 

[Dr_Greg]

Thank you John.
I will contact Gary in the Arcsystems tomorrow, hopefully he can help.