CL overcrowded !!!

[charlie_374349329]

Just had a lovely 4 days up in the Yorkshire Dales at a lovely CL....spotless toilets...grass nice and short and lovely views.

However as we all know, 5 vans is the limit on CL's....ok I know some owners stretch it a bit to 6 or 7 but the CL we were on had 13 vans on for the whole four days, 4 of which were 'semi-permanent'

Whilst this number of vans is well over the top, it did not make the visit any less pleasant and we enjoyed our stay very much

Just wondered what others views were on this matter????

 

[Ancientcaravanner]

I understand that the legal limit is 5 and there are good reasons for this. That said I have some sympathy for the CL owner who has laid on electricity and sometimes showers and wants to get his investment back. I personaaly feel that as long as the site isn't overcrowded its okay - what I object to is CLs with only just room for 5 vans having six or seven. One we visited in the peak district was so overloaded that we had to leave our car in the farmyard.

 

[Rioja]

Interesting post as I have just written to the CC magazine asking for the club/s view on my moral dilemma...do I keep quiet or do I report them if I find a breach of rule.

Is it just being vengeful and spiteful, envious even, that they are apparently making so much money or am I protecting the network from a threat to it's existance!

From a caravanners point of view, you try and book a week at a club site at short notice and you can't because although there are spaces during the week they are full at the weekends. Most CL breaches are probably at the weekends too but be grateful you found a site..

On the other hand if I am expecting a haven of peace and tranquility is it fair to find you are crammed into a sardine can of 'vans ?

According to the club magazine, it's the 50th anniversary of an Act of Parliament allowing CL's to come into being. 50 years ago the demand and numbers of caravans was nothing like it is today but there again, neither were the available sites.

Should CL's, where appropriate, be allowed to take an higher maximum number,say 10, but only when passed as suitable by the CC. The maximum number should clearly be marked on the entry gate. The Caravan Club would have to lobby Parliament to amend the current regulations.Is this a possible solution or merely upping the barrier to a new level of overcrowding ?

 

[Parksy]

As a frequent user of C&CC certified sites one thing that I've often noticed is that a site will be advertised as being 'certified' so you arrive expecting a maximum of five units.

In reality sometimes a small area of a larger site has been set aside as being 'certified' which enables a site to be advertised in club magazines and on their websites.

Personally I've nothing against staying on larger sites and like others I don't begrudge the site owner for recouping their investment but it would be much better if these sites made it clear when their certified area is part of a larger site.

 

[Soozeeg]

There do seem to be ways that owners have of getting round the regulations. One CL we stayed at in Somerset a couple of years ago had a CL for 5 vans, a CS for 5 vans, and a small private site with around 15 pitches - all in their own separate, but adjacent, areas! It was a really nice site though, beautifully kept and with lovely owners. Another one we stayed on in Norfolk last year also had 2 separate pitching areas, one taking 5 or 6 vans, the other 8 or 9. Again, there was more than enough space so we weren't bothered.

I personally have no objections to CL/CS owners taking more than 5 vans, so long as they are not crammed in and there is plenty of room for everyone. I do, however, agree with the suggestion above that it should be clearly advertised how many vans the owners can/will take, so you don't get an unpleasant surprise when you turn up expecting just 5 vans.

It does seem like a change in regulations is required.

 

[Philspadders]

if the CL did not accept more units it would probably close or become more commercial , charge more and you would lose you CL.

its up to you, but do you really want someone to lose what may be a valuable source of income for them and at the same time cause everyone else to lose a very pleasant little site.

if you feel that your moral values are more important then make a complaint but there are always consequences for someone.

 

[donb]

If there are over 5 vans, motor homes count as movable dwellings then the site should be licensed under a caravan site license from the Local authority. The CC and C&CC and other exempted organizations five van licenses are exemptions issued to avoid having to have planning permission and applying for a site license under the 1960 Caravan Site and control of development Act and having to adhere to stricter standards than the clubs apply.Even as a LA site licensing officer I tend to agree with providing they are not overcrowded then the risk is fairly low although I draw the line at ones with semi permanent units left on site taking up spaces during the peak season.28 days should be adhered to in my opinion.

 

[Dustydog]

One of favourites in North Devon also "cheats".

Five in the top field which is the CL bit. The bottom field is actually the farmhouse garden.

I and three others have been pitched there using individual hook ups run from the house.

People running CLs and CCs need every penny they can so why not forget the "rules" and live and let live, turn the proverbial blind eye.

Cheers

Dustydog

 

[Philspadders]

the other way to look at it is... the next you you go over the speed limit why not pop down to your local and hand yourself in.

Gotta be white than white to take a moral stance on this.

 

[Rioja]

Quote :- if the CL did not accept more units it would probably close or become more commercial , charge more and you would lose you CL.

its up to you, but do you really want someone to lose what may be a valuable source of income for them and at the same time cause everyone else to lose a very pleasant little site.

if you feel that your moral values are more important then make a complaint but there are always consequences for someone.

Reply !

Couple of points to add here

1) Become more commercial ? Probably not that easy. How do you advertise a 10 or 15 van site cost effectively ? You can't.Let the big organisations do it for you.

2) Will they close if they only get 5 vans per night ? Many operate within the rules so they think it's viable.

Food for thought, not a judgement !

 

[B4bill]

Good/popular CL's do not need to advertise, the fact that some CL's have more than 5 vans on the property would indicate some kind of popularity.

The fact that some owners can operate two CL's or CS's or a combination of both means the rules are being manipulated by the Clubs.

Unfortunately there will always be members who will complain because the "Rules are being broken" by those owners who allow more than 5 vans, yet look at this and other forums and the numbers of members who write of their indignation about being refused a pitch because the site was full.

THe fact that the Clubs are celebrating 50 years of CL's and the rules remain the same as when the act was passed speaks volumes.

Ownership of caravans must have increased 100 fold since 1960.

 

[Rioja]

Good/popular CL's do not need to advertise, the fact that some CL's have more than 5 vans on the property would indicate some kind of popularity.

The fact that some owners can operate two CL's or CS's or a combination of both means the rules are being manipulated by the Clubs.

Unfortunately there will always be members who will complain because the "Rules are being broken" by those owners who allow more than 5 vans, yet look at this and other forums and the numbers of members who write of their indignation about being refused a pitch because the site was full.

THe fact that the Clubs are celebrating 50 years of CL's and the rules remain the same as when the act was passed speaks volumes.

Ownership of caravans must have increased 100 fold since 1960.

Quote :-

Good/popular CL's do not need to advertise, the fact that some CL's have more than 5 vans on the property would indicate some kind of popularity.

Get real on this one please. If it wasn't for a line in the CC handbook/website where would people find out about these places in the first place ????

 

[marlot]

The CSMA are also allowed to licence sites, so someone could have 3x5-van fields quite legally

 

[Dustydog]

Gotta be white than white to take a moral stance on this.

I don't think this is a moral issue. If it was you would have said "blacker than black" LOL.

Let's not be Jobsworths. Who are we mere tuggers to tell an owner of a CL / CS they are bending the rules?

Cheers

Dustydog

 

[Rioja]

We might be mere tuggers but we have expectations of what a site might be like. If we don't like what we find we could turn around or leave early but that's not fair either.

If you read in the brochure that you are pitching in a 3/4 acre field with 4 other vans that's what you expect, and clearly not to be packed in and have to have a van within feet of your own.

It shouldn't be necessary for us to get involved, it shouldn't even happen.

Clear descriptions of what you are getting, whether it be a reserved corner of a huge caravan site or someones garden should be available to read. The Club area managers are surely responsible for maintaining an eye on their CL/CS networks and making sure they deliver as that is their part of the deal. In return they are getting direct access to huge memberships that means they don't need to spend money on costly advertising.

They can withdraw from the network and go it alone if they so wish. They would still be available for us to use so there is no loss of pitches, in fact there will be more if they accept higher numbers than 5 but of course they need to get the necessary planning permission.

.

 

[David.O]

I have followed this thread with interest as a CL owner. At this time we have 5 vans on site which is the CL and 2 friends staying in the field nearby. The problem as I see it is the clubs loose money for every outfit staying on a CL/CS and not thier sites. so the rules re these will never change. It is the pressure from club members that keep these CL sites open.We have looked at setting up a CS but the costs did not add up.One last piont CLs are as liable to no shows as club sites. We also have outfits turn up late at night and leave early next morning without paying. Thats life

 

[Dustydog]

David

You hit the nail on the head.

Your CL field currently has its maximum of 5 units.

Your personal , private, field has two more. I expect these are friends / family and I see no reason why you can't have them an a short stay vacation.Nudge nudge etc.

I agree long term lets may be a different discussion.

Cheers

Dustydog

 

[Soozeeg]

I have followed this thread with interest as a CL owner. At this time we have 5 vans on site which is the CL and 2 friends staying in the field nearby. The problem as I see it is the clubs loose money for every outfit staying on a CL/CS and not thier sites. so the rules re these will never change. It is the pressure from club members that keep these CL sites open.We have looked at setting up a CS but the costs did not add up.One last piont CLs are as liable to no shows as club sites. We also have outfits turn up late at night and leave early next morning without paying. Thats life

The fact that people would turn up late, pitch up and use your facilities overnight, then sneak off early the next morning without paying is despicable. How can anybody do that? It's not like CLs cost a fortune.

 

[Rioja]

We have just paid for our next 7 day CL stay, they asked for a deposit and sent a booking form and SAE. I returned the form with the full amount paid in advance. I would operate my business that way too so I don't mind sending a deposit to secure my booking.

If I hadn't booked I take a chance on there being a vacancy, but I would not expect the CL to squeeze me in as an over the limit booking because if they did why would I ever send money in advance.

Possibly the problem with some CL's and their no shows is that too many don't ask for a deposit.Maybe some CL operators think that bending the rules is only fair as some members have done so in not turning up !

 

[Dustydog]

What comes over loud and clear to me from this thread; no CL has more than 5 units on the allocated field, BUT on other fields they fit people in.

If I pay a deposit I expect to be on the "approved" field. What goes on elsewhere is of no concern to me.

Cheers

Dustydog

 

[Rioja]

Quote Dustydog :- What comes over loud and clear to me from this thread; no CL has more than 5 units on the allocated field, BUT on other fields they fit people in.

Wrong. The CL I was referring to in an earlier post had 10 vans on the part we stayed on as a CL and 6 on another field across the road. Either way he was bending the rules

 

[Parksy]

The site which is advertised on the C&CC website as being a certified site where we have arranged to stay for a short break has at least 28 pitches.

I know this because when I contacted them and said that if they didn't have a spare ehu it wouldn't matter to us the owner replied that I would have an ehu because they have 28.

This doesn't bother me in the slightest but it proves that there is some ducking and diving around planning laws by some sites.

Of course if questions were asked the CS owner would be able to reply with a straight face that 5 ehu's were for caravans and the remainder were for tents ;0)

 

[Dustydog]

Rioja

Sorry missed that one! I agree 10 is too much. Did they all have EHU's?

Cheers

Dustydog

 

[Rioja]

Quote Sorry missed that one! I agree 10 is too much. Did they all have EHU's?

I can't tell you the answer because I didn't look that closely.The CL we stayed on did actually have 10 EHUs but only a maximum of 4 vans during our stay.

The more I think about it the more I feel as a customer that I am entitled to receive what's on the label. The label should be clearly written and that's what you should get.

CL/CS owners should ensure that descriptions that are available on the web or in the book are accurate, as should club officials themselves.

 

[Dustydog]

The CL we stayed on did actually have 10 EHUs but only a maximum of 4 vans during our stay.

It makes you wonder if it was truly a CL??

CheerS

Dustydog