In most cases it would be very difficult, if not impossible on normal roads, to ever overtake without exceeding the limit. And I doubt if anyone on this thread has never done so.
Best regards,
George
Best regards,
George
George
Of course you are quite right and I for one cannot say I haven't. However the IAM as a public body cannot and will not endorse breaking the speed limit.
Of course we could split hairs and argue that to overtake a vehicle doing 69 will take forever if you don't exceed 70. So do you need to overtake at all?
But then I guess rules are rules and in the old saying it's your licence not mine.
Of course you are quite right and I for one cannot say I haven't. However the IAM as a public body cannot and will not endorse breaking the speed limit.
Of course we could split hairs and argue that to overtake a vehicle doing 69 will take forever if you don't exceed 70. So do you need to overtake at all?
Damian
Moderator
Quote "In most cases it would be very difficult, if not impossible on normal roads, to ever overtake without exceeding the limit"
So what you are saying then is that the other traffic is going as fast as it can within the limits,and due to the roads or hazards, it is unsafe to overtake without breaking the limit,but because you "think" they are not going fast enough, you are entitled to overtake anyway?.
This brings you back to the Highway Code and Only overtake where it is SAFE and LEGAL to do so.
So what you are saying then is that the other traffic is going as fast as it can within the limits,and due to the roads or hazards, it is unsafe to overtake without breaking the limit,but because you "think" they are not going fast enough, you are entitled to overtake anyway?.
This brings you back to the Highway Code and Only overtake where it is SAFE and LEGAL to do so.
'I placed a direct question to the IAM and they responded. The IAM not instruct or condone any of their ordinary members to exceed the speed limits at any time, Speeding is illegal. They further said that if the name of the Instructor were know they would follow it up.'
Ros and I WERE both IAM members. What the IAM say publicly and what they practice can and does differ area to area, group to group. We held both car and motorcycle passes and I was a motor cycle observer for a while, I've driven and ridden with numerous observers and retired and serving police examiners for the IAM, if you care to believe what the IAM say to an open question I'm sorry to say you're some what gullible.
I discontinued IAM membership as I needed a clean license and riding out after the monthly meeting was done at speed and the often noted ' I AM ' attitude of some IAM members gets to be a real pain. Diffferent attitudes and instruction between IAM areas was also another issue. What Dusty says about the advanced test is correct, but I can assure you that I have no doubt that some IAM people including very senior police condone that breaking the speed limit can at times be the best option.
You may also find like we did that an embarassing number of the ' I AM ' preacher IAM members have more than a fair number of points on their licences and a not too hot accident an insurance record. I've still advised numerous drivers and riders to do the IAM courses and tests, but you need to keep an open mind to what they preach and what they actually do on the road
Ros and I WERE both IAM members. What the IAM say publicly and what they practice can and does differ area to area, group to group. We held both car and motorcycle passes and I was a motor cycle observer for a while, I've driven and ridden with numerous observers and retired and serving police examiners for the IAM, if you care to believe what the IAM say to an open question I'm sorry to say you're some what gullible.
I discontinued IAM membership as I needed a clean license and riding out after the monthly meeting was done at speed and the often noted ' I AM ' attitude of some IAM members gets to be a real pain. Diffferent attitudes and instruction between IAM areas was also another issue. What Dusty says about the advanced test is correct, but I can assure you that I have no doubt that some IAM people including very senior police condone that breaking the speed limit can at times be the best option.
You may also find like we did that an embarassing number of the ' I AM ' preacher IAM members have more than a fair number of points on their licences and a not too hot accident an insurance record. I've still advised numerous drivers and riders to do the IAM courses and tests, but you need to keep an open mind to what they preach and what they actually do on the road
oh dear, any post regarding speeding, speed limits, cameras always deteriorates into the usual " i want to drive as fast as i can, where i can , when i can because i am so experienced". Well if you break the speed limit even overtaking you can and will be prosecuted. The one thing in common posted by those who want to drive as fast as they feel is that they believe they are safe. WHAT ABOUT THE OTHER ROAD USERS ? CYCLISTS, WALKERS, OTHER VEHICLES AND PEDESTRIANS. Stick within the speed limits and you will not have to complain.
Omon Wheelz. So i take that becoming an IAM memeber led to having points for speeding.
I
There's some bullshite spouted on this forum.I can smell it from here.
I
There's some bullshite spouted on this forum.I can smell it from here.
Excuse me, but did you bother to read the post's here Phil? Because it doesn't look like it
I've been riding and driving for over 41 years and with a clean license for all of that time
I don't approve of breaking speed limits, but nor do I claim that I never have as I doubt that anyone if they are truthful could use UK roads today without the odd transgression. What I do know and witnessed is that being an IAM member and passing the advanced tests does not make all the members saints and some are quite happy to use their advanced skills for speedier progress and there are instances where senior instructors and examiners who are often police turn a blind eye and condone it.Will they admit that in Public, like h they will
.
I've been riding and driving for over 41 years and with a clean license for all of that time
I don't approve of breaking speed limits, but nor do I claim that I never have as I doubt that anyone if they are truthful could use UK roads today without the odd transgression. What I do know and witnessed is that being an IAM member and passing the advanced tests does not make all the members saints and some are quite happy to use their advanced skills for speedier progress and there are instances where senior instructors and examiners who are often police turn a blind eye and condone it.Will they admit that in Public, like h they will
This say's it all. I too have been an IAM member and found that quite a few members thought they were above their station and the badge on the car gave them license to "drive on the limit" rather than safely with the traffic flow. I also concurr that the rule book and tests do fail drivers for needless speed. But there is case in certain circumstances where exceeding the designated speed limit for a short burst constitutes executing a safer manouver.OmOnWeelz said:'I placed a direct question to the IAM and they responded. The IAM not instruct or condone any of their ordinary members to exceed the speed limits at any time, Speeding is illegal. They further said that if the name of the Instructor were know they would follow it up.'
Ros and I WERE both IAM members. What the IAM say publicly and what they practice can and does differ area to area, group to group. We held both car and motorcycle passes and I was a motor cycle observer for a while, I've driven and ridden with numerous observers and retired and serving police examiners for the IAM, if you care to believe what the IAM say to an open question I'm sorry to say you're some what gullible.
I discontinued IAM membership as I needed a clean license and riding out after the monthly meeting was done at speed and the often noted ' I AM ' attitude of some IAM members gets to be a real pain. Diffferent attitudes and instruction between IAM areas was also another issue. What Dusty says about the advanced test is correct, but I can assure you that I have no doubt that some IAM people including very senior police condone that breaking the speed limit can at times be the best option.
You may also find like we did that an embarassing number of the ' I AM ' preacher IAM members have more than a fair number of points on their licences and a not too hot accident an insurance record. I've still advised numerous drivers and riders to do the IAM courses and tests, but you need to keep an open mind to what they preach and what they actually do on the road
I also hold the oppinion that nobody can say they are perfect and have not unwhitingly exceeded a speed limit, but they are potentially the most dangerous catagory they do it without thought or a pre-planned manouver.
Om , i did read the post, and you clearly stated " left the IAM because i needed a clean driving licence" the inference being that joing the IAM leads to getting points for speeding.
What i cant understand is why you left , if your driving a vehicle then its your responsibilty to drive safely and within the boundary of the law including speed limits. Just because someone else in your group was speeding does not mean that you have to follow.
Sheeples
What i cant understand is why you left , if your driving a vehicle then its your responsibilty to drive safely and within the boundary of the law including speed limits. Just because someone else in your group was speeding does not mean that you have to follow.
Sheeples
I rode and raced bikes as a youngster, if you ride in a group on the road it is far too easy to slip in to the groups flow and speed.
If you give up time each month to do the IAM training and then take the advanced tests, hopefully you have learnt how to read the road and sittuations on the road better and hopefuly you've become a better and safer driver or rider
The idea of 'riding out' is that you are part of a 'group', if most of that group are then hooning around on the roads and off in to the distance you're no longer part of the group. When you get to the destination meeting point (often a pub) talking BS and legitimising your Speed as you are 'IAM trained and safe' whilst supping a pint or two before a similar style homebound ride doesn't fit with IAM guidelines as far as I'm concerned. Also slagging off other road users for there positioning or behaviour that has hindered your speed gets a little weary.
You either keep up or you're not part of a group, I've always followed the idea that the only safe drink drive rule is for drivers and riders not to drink at all before using roads. I left as I didn't want to ride and risk my license so I wasn't part of the riding group and holding IAM advanced passes doesn't make you a perfect road user or give you the right to talk BS to legitimise your own driving or to pick every other road user to bits. I had better things to do with my afternoons than annalyze nearly every other or driver seen on the roads and use the IAM training to hoon on around country roads.
Some of my former IAM friends thought I was tee total ,when they found out that I did enjoy a drink I was then told that at about 20 stone a couple of pints wasn't going to be a problem for me and was asked what was wrong with me by a senior police officer and one of his work colleagues who was also part of the IAM group
. I took that as my signal to leave and spend a Sunday afternoon gardening with my wife
and gave up motorcycling.
If you give up time each month to do the IAM training and then take the advanced tests, hopefully you have learnt how to read the road and sittuations on the road better and hopefuly you've become a better and safer driver or rider
The idea of 'riding out' is that you are part of a 'group', if most of that group are then hooning around on the roads and off in to the distance you're no longer part of the group. When you get to the destination meeting point (often a pub) talking BS and legitimising your Speed as you are 'IAM trained and safe' whilst supping a pint or two before a similar style homebound ride doesn't fit with IAM guidelines as far as I'm concerned. Also slagging off other road users for there positioning or behaviour that has hindered your speed gets a little weary.
You either keep up or you're not part of a group, I've always followed the idea that the only safe drink drive rule is for drivers and riders not to drink at all before using roads. I left as I didn't want to ride and risk my license so I wasn't part of the riding group and holding IAM advanced passes doesn't make you a perfect road user or give you the right to talk BS to legitimise your own driving or to pick every other road user to bits. I had better things to do with my afternoons than annalyze nearly every other or driver seen on the roads and use the IAM training to hoon on around country roads.
Some of my former IAM friends thought I was tee total ,when they found out that I did enjoy a drink I was then told that at about 20 stone a couple of pints wasn't going to be a problem for me and was asked what was wrong with me by a senior police officer and one of his work colleagues who was also part of the IAM group
Unfortunately there are a lot of people who take gaining a recognised additional driving achievement as opportunity to drive to the limit of their capability for a thrill. What they don't understand is that the prime desire of the road safety training organisations is to promote safety and not develope lead footed inconsiderate drivers who forget about the wider picture on the roads.
Got a classic example just down the road from us this weekend. a youngster has borrowed mums Corsa, lost control of the car on a bend that is easily negotiated at 60 Mph. He has crossed the road, mounted the grass verge, took off and landed over the otherside of the hedge and literally stood the car on it's nose against the hedge. A crane will be needed to get the car out without further damage.
So now I expect there will be more signs put up, perhaps a 50Mph speed limit, nice yellow sand grip put on the road surface. But I doubt the actual cause of the accident will be addressed. IE the driver who lost control because they were not paying attention to how they drove and lost regard for safe motoring.
Got a classic example just down the road from us this weekend. a youngster has borrowed mums Corsa, lost control of the car on a bend that is easily negotiated at 60 Mph. He has crossed the road, mounted the grass verge, took off and landed over the otherside of the hedge and literally stood the car on it's nose against the hedge. A crane will be needed to get the car out without further damage.
So now I expect there will be more signs put up, perhaps a 50Mph speed limit, nice yellow sand grip put on the road surface. But I doubt the actual cause of the accident will be addressed. IE the driver who lost control because they were not paying attention to how they drove and lost regard for safe motoring.
The Community Speed Watch initiative would not be necessary if all drivers obeyed the speed limits.
It seems to have become endemic for some drivers to habitually disregard speed limits, and other road regulations such as not using hand held communication devices overtaking on solid white lines (and undertaking), cutting in to lanes of traffic without leaving an adequate safety gap and wearing seat belts. etc
These failings have all too often been undetected, which feeds the notion that it is alright to disregard the regulations, and I know some people who deliberately plan their longer journeys times with the principal they can and do travel at up to 90mph on the motorways. I avoid travelling with them.
Sadly it is all too often the case that these law breakers are the ones who shout and complain the loudest when they are caught. But ultimately it is their choice whether to break these rules or not.
Like them or not, speed limits are there and it is an indictment of our society that so many people are prepared to deliberately ignore them.
I support the idea of CSW's but if as has been reported some CSW's are not following their training and are misusing the detectors then that must be addressed by retraining and monitoring their activity.
With the local nature of these CSW's there is a danger that a local law breaker may choose to vent their anger on individuala if they know who they are and where they live, so perhaps trading localities is a good idea.
With regard to the proximity of speed detectors to the boundary of a speed change, Where you are entering a lower speed limit area, there is a notion that suggests you have deceleration zone within the lower speed area. This is not so. The speed limit applies from the point where the signage is located, and any change to a lower speed should be made before you reach the lower speed zone. In an area not far from me the speed limit changes from 50 to 30mph. There is a Gatso about 100yds of the speed change.
Conversely when leaving a lower speed zone, you should not increase your speed until you are in the higher speed zone.
It seems to have become endemic for some drivers to habitually disregard speed limits, and other road regulations such as not using hand held communication devices overtaking on solid white lines (and undertaking), cutting in to lanes of traffic without leaving an adequate safety gap and wearing seat belts. etc
These failings have all too often been undetected, which feeds the notion that it is alright to disregard the regulations, and I know some people who deliberately plan their longer journeys times with the principal they can and do travel at up to 90mph on the motorways. I avoid travelling with them.
Sadly it is all too often the case that these law breakers are the ones who shout and complain the loudest when they are caught. But ultimately it is their choice whether to break these rules or not.
Like them or not, speed limits are there and it is an indictment of our society that so many people are prepared to deliberately ignore them.
I support the idea of CSW's but if as has been reported some CSW's are not following their training and are misusing the detectors then that must be addressed by retraining and monitoring their activity.
With the local nature of these CSW's there is a danger that a local law breaker may choose to vent their anger on individuala if they know who they are and where they live, so perhaps trading localities is a good idea.
With regard to the proximity of speed detectors to the boundary of a speed change, Where you are entering a lower speed limit area, there is a notion that suggests you have deceleration zone within the lower speed area. This is not so. The speed limit applies from the point where the signage is located, and any change to a lower speed should be made before you reach the lower speed zone. In an area not far from me the speed limit changes from 50 to 30mph. There is a Gatso about 100yds of the speed change.
Conversely when leaving a lower speed zone, you should not increase your speed until you are in the higher speed zone.
"It seems to have become endemic for some drivers to habitually disregard speed limits, and other road regulations such as not using hand held communication devices overtaking on solid white lines (and undertaking), cutting in to lanes of traffic without leaving an adequate safety gap and wearing seat belts. etc"
Nonsense. You show me a driver who does not fall foul to one of the discribs above, or other similar ones, and i will call them a liar.
I include myself in that list, as it is humanly impossible to drive day in day out in what can only be described as a perfect manner, as taught to you in your lesson. because as humans we are not perfect, non of us are, so therefore non of us can drive in a perfect legal responsible manor all of the time, giving 100% observation to our driving and also checking both our mirrors every 15 odd seconds, or when changing gear,or whilst larger vehicles pass by in the opposite direction ect ect ect.
All we can do is try to do our best.
So you see regardless of what ones thoughts are on the community speed watch itself, it is simple impossible for even the most diligent of drivers to get everything right every single time.day in day out
Nonsense. You show me a driver who does not fall foul to one of the discribs above, or other similar ones, and i will call them a liar.
I include myself in that list, as it is humanly impossible to drive day in day out in what can only be described as a perfect manner, as taught to you in your lesson. because as humans we are not perfect, non of us are, so therefore non of us can drive in a perfect legal responsible manor all of the time, giving 100% observation to our driving and also checking both our mirrors every 15 odd seconds, or when changing gear,or whilst larger vehicles pass by in the opposite direction ect ect ect.
All we can do is try to do our best.
So you see regardless of what ones thoughts are on the community speed watch itself, it is simple impossible for even the most diligent of drivers to get everything right every single time.day in day out
It’s true that due to a lack of concentration many drivers may slip over the speed limit occasionally. However, it’s pretty difficult to “accidentally” make a phone call, not wear a seat belt, overtake on solid lines etc. It probably is nigh on impossible to be the perfect driver but I try to get as close to it as I can.
Hello John
Please read the first line of the paragraph because I used the word 'SOME' not' all' Further I limited my comment to those who DO habitually speed etc.
There is a significant difference in the mind set between drivers who drift over speed limits unintentionally and those who try to drive as fast as they can regardless of the speed limits. Both sets of drivers are of course open to prosecution if they are detected.
But the biggest problem is that for too long speeders have been able to get away with it, where as if there had been more intensive policing and detection in the past, there would be less inclination to speed now.
I have spent time in Canada, and I have marvelled at how well behaved the drivers are even in the sticks, It might be something to do with the number of patrol cars and fines that can be levied for transgressions.
No one is perfect, but it is something we should strive for.
Please read the first line of the paragraph because I used the word 'SOME' not' all' Further I limited my comment to those who DO habitually speed etc.
There is a significant difference in the mind set between drivers who drift over speed limits unintentionally and those who try to drive as fast as they can regardless of the speed limits. Both sets of drivers are of course open to prosecution if they are detected.
But the biggest problem is that for too long speeders have been able to get away with it, where as if there had been more intensive policing and detection in the past, there would be less inclination to speed now.
I have spent time in Canada, and I have marvelled at how well behaved the drivers are even in the sticks, It might be something to do with the number of patrol cars and fines that can be levied for transgressions.
No one is perfect, but it is something we should strive for.
i do agree that everybody has exceeded a speed limit at some time, but being brutally honest, it is the ones who "drift over a limit" who scare me. They are the ones who are not paying attention and are also the most likely cause of an accident.
That I can totally agree with Prof, and I welcome the idea of more policing, but by the police. Its not a dig at the police force but those that do not give the police forces the funds, resources to do what is after all their job not ours.Prof John L said:
Hello again John,
I loose patients with newspapers who publish headlines like, 'bomb kills 12 people die as police fail to evacuate area in time. Its not the polices fault - they did not set the bomb, its the bombers fault. like wise its not the polices fault that people speed, its the speeders themselves.
Nobody would doubt the duty of members of the public to report suspicious looking packages and like wise the use of CSW's to detct speeders is just an extension of the public's duty to report law breakers. But of equal importance is the role that CSW's may play in deterring speeding. In so many walks of life prevention is better than cure, and likewise with speeding. The fines levied do not cover the cost of the prosecution, so surely both for safety and cost effectiveness CSW's assist the police with that duty and releases them for other more appropriate duties.
Detection of speeding is only necessary because people speed, if they didn't speed,there would be no need for CSW's!
I loose patients with newspapers who publish headlines like, 'bomb kills 12 people die as police fail to evacuate area in time. Its not the polices fault - they did not set the bomb, its the bombers fault. like wise its not the polices fault that people speed, its the speeders themselves.
Nobody would doubt the duty of members of the public to report suspicious looking packages and like wise the use of CSW's to detct speeders is just an extension of the public's duty to report law breakers. But of equal importance is the role that CSW's may play in deterring speeding. In so many walks of life prevention is better than cure, and likewise with speeding. The fines levied do not cover the cost of the prosecution, so surely both for safety and cost effectiveness CSW's assist the police with that duty and releases them for other more appropriate duties.
Detection of speeding is only necessary because people speed, if they didn't speed,there would be no need for CSW's!
Here we go again Yawn yawn yawn boring same old rubbish from one simple question to a load of how experienced am I . Give it a rest.
Moderator Note:
Post edited to remove unnecessary abuse.
Moderator Note:
Post edited to remove unnecessary abuse.
"Detection of speeding is only necessary because people speed, if they didn't speed,there would be no need for CSW's! "
The powers that be dictate that speeding is a motoring offence, that therefore dictates it is a matter for the law and the police are there to make sure the law is upheld. not CSW's
The powers that be dictate that speeding is a motoring offence, that therefore dictates it is a matter for the law and the police are there to make sure the law is upheld. not CSW's
Unfortunately Jonny we as a nation can no longer afford the luxury of police officers to previous levels hence the introduction of CSWs.
I guess if our taxes and rates were increased then maybe more police could be employed . BUT who would want to pay more than we do now?
I guess if our taxes and rates were increased then maybe more police could be employed . BUT who would want to pay more than we do now?
Unfortunately Jonny we as a nation can no longer afford the luxury of police officers to previous levels hence the introduction of CSWs.
I guess if our taxes and rates were increased then maybe more police could be employed . BUT who would want to pay more than we do now?
....I have just (two days ago) driven past two yellow smack ladies in Long Marston, I was looking for a particular place so crawling anyway.
These people cannot be civilians if the police are instructing them and allowing use of their equipment surely.......
Had I been going faster and above the 30mph even if it was only 1 mile plus I would certainly stop, get out and challenge these people and get their details.....as legally you can get the police ID No in any situ, I think after that I would dial 999.
I have been told police cannot procecute. I know anyone can inform police of any driving offense.
I assume that these people who are volunteer of logging speeders with police equipment and what looked like police smack macs are issured by police should they ever have a mad mad attack them LOL
As for the rates we pay we already pay £2300 and its going up again this year.......
You will always get speeders YOU WILL ALWAYS GET STUPID IDIOTIC DRIVERS.
Especially, people in villages ( whare I also live) you drive in no entry road just because its quite, quicker, better excess, and I don't look at signs,,,,,, constantly take the roundabout wrong..... curb crawl and then are abusive to other motorist because they are terrified on the road and can't drive anyway!!! Not to mention the ones who drive in the middle of the lanes because they can't judge their vehicle from the curb.....
but its only the speeders who are bad....
Should we have a survey What do you class a speeder as???????
Driver deliberately 1mph above limit or 5 or 20 or 15 or lapse of conscentration..........
by the same point what do you class a crwawler as
Deliberately driving 1mph under the limit or 5 or 20 or 15 ....or lapse of conscentration?
Just curious ,, had my rant now it does good to rant sometimes..... OB what a rant. LOL
I guess if our taxes and rates were increased then maybe more police could be employed . BUT who would want to pay more than we do now?
....I have just (two days ago) driven past two yellow smack ladies in Long Marston, I was looking for a particular place so crawling anyway.
These people cannot be civilians if the police are instructing them and allowing use of their equipment surely.......
Had I been going faster and above the 30mph even if it was only 1 mile plus I would certainly stop, get out and challenge these people and get their details.....as legally you can get the police ID No in any situ, I think after that I would dial 999.
I have been told police cannot procecute. I know anyone can inform police of any driving offense.
I assume that these people who are volunteer of logging speeders with police equipment and what looked like police smack macs are issured by police should they ever have a mad mad attack them LOL
As for the rates we pay we already pay £2300 and its going up again this year.......
You will always get speeders YOU WILL ALWAYS GET STUPID IDIOTIC DRIVERS.
Especially, people in villages ( whare I also live) you drive in no entry road just because its quite, quicker, better excess, and I don't look at signs,,,,,, constantly take the roundabout wrong..... curb crawl and then are abusive to other motorist because they are terrified on the road and can't drive anyway!!! Not to mention the ones who drive in the middle of the lanes because they can't judge their vehicle from the curb.....
but its only the speeders who are bad....
Should we have a survey What do you class a speeder as???????
Driver deliberately 1mph above limit or 5 or 20 or 15 or lapse of conscentration..........
by the same point what do you class a crwawler as
Deliberately driving 1mph under the limit or 5 or 20 or 15 ....or lapse of conscentration?
Just curious ,, had my rant now it does good to rant sometimes..... OB what a rant. LOL
In our little town of 5000 I understand 12 people so far have volunteered to fire the gun.
These people mean business and seem determined to catch the speedsters.
I wonder how they will feel when they catch their neighbours?
These people mean business and seem determined to catch the speedsters.
I wonder how they will feel when they catch their neighbours?
I wonder how they will cope with the lectures and abuse they are likely to get from their fellow locals. That's what has a happened near here. One person was reported for having a kong used and illegal personal number plate and others who drive have come under close scrutiny of neighbours.
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