Completely green about this and dont want to make a mistake. The fleetwood garland we are going to have a look at has a weight ex works of 814kg and design weight of 1100kg. Is the desigh weight the max towing weight or is there still an allowance to add to that. I can not match it to our zafira deisel 1.9 2003 as the fleetwood garland 148.4 is not listed. Can some one advise. its so confusing. Thankyou
confused about what weight is the max towing?
- Thread starter robert_374417101
- Start date
Just to add- I know our car's kerb weight is 1448kgs with 85% being 1231 if that helps. 1100 seems very close to 1231
Hello Robert
The figures you should be looking for are quoted as MTPLM in Kg. This is the maximum your whole caravan can technically weigh, whether this equates to your quoted design weight of 1100 is not absolutely clear, but in the absence of any other data it does seem reasonable. This will give you a pay load of 286Kg.
Don't forget that the pay load has to includes every thing that was not in the caravan when it left the factory so this means all the pots and pans, gas bottles and the battery as well as your personal effects and food, deck chairs, etc, so the allowance can be swallowed up quite quickly.
From the information I do have available, your Zaffira (Details for the 2002 model) seems to have a max trailer capacity of about 1220Kg, so your proposed combination is technically ok, but as ever never trust information from a web site like this as the databases we use are not always accurate. Always check your technical information with the handbook/registration documents for the vehicles or with the main dealers or the manufacturer.
Unfortunately I know that Fleetwood no longer exist so some options are not going to be so easy for you.
To be legal you must keep the caravan within their respective MTPLM's and the cars' Max Train Mass (Gross Train weight).
It is always wise to load the caravan as light as possible especially if you are new to towing. And it is of as much importance to be careful about where you put things in the caravan, as excessive mass at the ends of the caravan can lead to early onset of instability.
Pay attention to your nose weight allowance of the cars towball. You need to load the caravan to create enough nose load to maintain towing stability, but you must not exceed the limit of the tow ball or the limit of the caravans hitch..
There are other web sites and magazine articles that offer good advice about load distribution.
The figures you should be looking for are quoted as MTPLM in Kg. This is the maximum your whole caravan can technically weigh, whether this equates to your quoted design weight of 1100 is not absolutely clear, but in the absence of any other data it does seem reasonable. This will give you a pay load of 286Kg.
Don't forget that the pay load has to includes every thing that was not in the caravan when it left the factory so this means all the pots and pans, gas bottles and the battery as well as your personal effects and food, deck chairs, etc, so the allowance can be swallowed up quite quickly.
From the information I do have available, your Zaffira (Details for the 2002 model) seems to have a max trailer capacity of about 1220Kg, so your proposed combination is technically ok, but as ever never trust information from a web site like this as the databases we use are not always accurate. Always check your technical information with the handbook/registration documents for the vehicles or with the main dealers or the manufacturer.
Unfortunately I know that Fleetwood no longer exist so some options are not going to be so easy for you.
To be legal you must keep the caravan within their respective MTPLM's and the cars' Max Train Mass (Gross Train weight).
It is always wise to load the caravan as light as possible especially if you are new to towing. And it is of as much importance to be careful about where you put things in the caravan, as excessive mass at the ends of the caravan can lead to early onset of instability.
Pay attention to your nose weight allowance of the cars towball. You need to load the caravan to create enough nose load to maintain towing stability, but you must not exceed the limit of the tow ball or the limit of the caravans hitch..
There are other web sites and magazine articles that offer good advice about load distribution.
John L, where did you get the information from that the maximum towload of the Zafira diesel (2002 model) is 1220kg? My data shows 1050kg for cars fitted with air conditioning and 1100kg for those without.
Robert, note that the towload that the car manufacturer specifies is NOT the total weight of the caravan, but only its axle load.
Robert, note that the towload that the car manufacturer specifies is NOT the total weight of the caravan, but only its axle load.
Ah That's annoying,
I took Roberts statement of a 1.9 diesel from 2003 as read and entered just the engine into my sources search engine.
My sources search engine has just changed, and it came back with three models. I did not check all the data properly, It seems it found the 2005 models, and it it only displayed the 85% figures. (1225 to 1250kg)
Having rechecked, It has no record of 1.9L petrol or diesel sold in 2003 but only shows 2005 model, and the full capacities are 1300to 1500Kg dependant on power output from the same 1.9 CDTi block.
This just goes to show my concerns and advice about third party databases is highly relevant.
Of course If Roberts vehicle is restricted to 1050kg then his caravan if fully loaded is over weight.
I took Roberts statement of a 1.9 diesel from 2003 as read and entered just the engine into my sources search engine.
My sources search engine has just changed, and it came back with three models. I did not check all the data properly, It seems it found the 2005 models, and it it only displayed the 85% figures. (1225 to 1250kg)
Having rechecked, It has no record of 1.9L petrol or diesel sold in 2003 but only shows 2005 model, and the full capacities are 1300to 1500Kg dependant on power output from the same 1.9 CDTi block.
This just goes to show my concerns and advice about third party databases is highly relevant.
Of course If Roberts vehicle is restricted to 1050kg then his caravan if fully loaded is over weight.
Yes, your data must have been the 85% figure.
The 2003 model was the old shape Zafira and that had the 2.0 DTI diesel engine. The 1.9 litre CDTI didn't come on to the market until the current model appeared in 2005.
Even so, if Robert's caravan weighs 1100kg fully laden and he sets the noseweight at the 75kg limit, then the towload will be 1025kg, which is below the 1050kg limit for the 2.0 DTI Zafira.
The 2003 model was the old shape Zafira and that had the 2.0 DTI diesel engine. The 1.9 litre CDTI didn't come on to the market until the current model appeared in 2005.
Even so, if Robert's caravan weighs 1100kg fully laden and he sets the noseweight at the 75kg limit, then the towload will be 1025kg, which is below the 1050kg limit for the 2.0 DTI Zafira.
Thankyou all. You have to admit its confusing with different figures published! I have looked up our zafira 2003 and yes its the 2.0ltr club so we have the kerb weight at 1448 kgs with 85% BEING 1231KGS. Therefore I assume that the difference between 1100 - 1231= 131 would still be available? Still don't understand about nose weights though. Ps Your help is very much appreciated.
Forget the 85% figure. In the case of the Zafira that you have, its maximum permissible towload is less than 85% of its kerbweight, so you MUST observe the manufacturer's specification and not go by the 85% as your limit.
Noseweight is relatively easy. The maximum permissible noseweight for the Zafira is 75kg and a keeping the noseweight as high as possible is good for stability of the outfit, so try to get as close as possible to 75kg without exceeding it.
Noseweight is relatively easy. The maximum permissible noseweight for the Zafira is 75kg and a keeping the noseweight as high as possible is good for stability of the outfit, so try to get as close as possible to 75kg without exceeding it.
Why does the 85% limit not apply to the zafira? Do I have to ring vauxhall up to find out the cars max towing weight then? The Abi marauder we also fancy seeing is 805kg ex works and 1050 kg surely we would be able to tow this, it seems quite a light van?
You will find the maximum permissible towload in the owner's handbook or on the car's VIN plate. You must not exceed this value, regardless of any 85% figure.
Dear Robert,
We are completely green too!
The man at the caravan dealers looked at the VIN plate of our car. {which was under the bonnet on left side of car} It tells you on there what weights your car can tow.
Our car for example can take a combined weight of 3550kg and the laden weight of the caravan is 1500kg.
So we would be ok with the caravan we are hoping to buy.
It is a very confusing business but made easier if you go to a reputable dealer!
Hope this helps
Susan
We are completely green too!
The man at the caravan dealers looked at the VIN plate of our car. {which was under the bonnet on left side of car} It tells you on there what weights your car can tow.
Our car for example can take a combined weight of 3550kg and the laden weight of the caravan is 1500kg.
So we would be ok with the caravan we are hoping to buy.
It is a very confusing business but made easier if you go to a reputable dealer!
Hope this helps
Susan
Hello Robert,
The 85% figure is often quoted because the UK caravan industry have decided that 85% is an ideal match. This figure is purely a guideline and was produced when car manufactures rarely quoted what their cars could tow. The figure has no technical evidence and is not part of any vehicle regulations which is why it is only a guideline, not a rule and certainly not LAW.
Unfortunately some people accept the figure as being a holy grail for towing, and use it without considering the technical evidence from the vehicle manufacturers, but 85% does not by its self guarantee that an outfit will be well matched or in some cases legal.
However the principal of keeping a trailer as light as possible compared to the weight of towing vehicle is very sensible, but there is no simple one figure fits all.
These days, the process car manufactures have to go through before they can sell a car in the EU is called Type Approval, and as part of that the manufacture has to specify the maximum towed weight their car can pull under certain test conditions. It should come as no surprise that the results vary widely between makes and models.
Through this system, some cars are deemed not suitable to tow anything, whilst others are approved to pull trailers considerably in excess of their own weight. The Mk1 Diesel Zafira was a particular case where the manufacturer rated it to tow less than its own kerb weight and in fact less than 85% whilst other engine variants had greater towing capacities.
The diesels restricted towing capacities for this model were reported to be due to difficulties in cooling the engine.
The 85% figure is often quoted because the UK caravan industry have decided that 85% is an ideal match. This figure is purely a guideline and was produced when car manufactures rarely quoted what their cars could tow. The figure has no technical evidence and is not part of any vehicle regulations which is why it is only a guideline, not a rule and certainly not LAW.
Unfortunately some people accept the figure as being a holy grail for towing, and use it without considering the technical evidence from the vehicle manufacturers, but 85% does not by its self guarantee that an outfit will be well matched or in some cases legal.
However the principal of keeping a trailer as light as possible compared to the weight of towing vehicle is very sensible, but there is no simple one figure fits all.
These days, the process car manufactures have to go through before they can sell a car in the EU is called Type Approval, and as part of that the manufacture has to specify the maximum towed weight their car can pull under certain test conditions. It should come as no surprise that the results vary widely between makes and models.
Through this system, some cars are deemed not suitable to tow anything, whilst others are approved to pull trailers considerably in excess of their own weight. The Mk1 Diesel Zafira was a particular case where the manufacturer rated it to tow less than its own kerb weight and in fact less than 85% whilst other engine variants had greater towing capacities.
The diesels restricted towing capacities for this model were reported to be due to difficulties in cooling the engine.
Thankyou all. I am just off to look at the vin plate. Can I just ask as well, when viewing a van it is normal and proper to ask to see everything working, eg gas, water electric etc isn't it, it would be mad not to, surely. Some people seem a bit put off by this but I would take that to mean there is something to hide. I just wonder if there is a viewing etiquette?
Damian
Moderator
Robert, definately ask to see every item working, gas and electric and water.
Ask for recent service details and check the age of the tyres by the number stamped on the tyre wall just after the DOT marking.(someting like 2609 would indicate week 26 of 2009)
Ask for recent service details and check the age of the tyres by the number stamped on the tyre wall just after the DOT marking.(someting like 2609 would indicate week 26 of 2009)
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