Cost of Diesel

[Dave_5040135]

Can anybody explain to me why the cost of diesel in GB is more expensive than petrol and in your deliberations take into account the comparative costs in Europe?

Having just read the recent edition of the Caravan Club Magazine (p.36 August 2005) I am appalled that yet again we appear to be penalised in comparison with our European partners. For the cost of a litre of diesel in Europe read, France _0.984; Germany _0.95; Italy _1.116; Netherlands _0.94; Spain (Mainland) _0.885 (Prices correct at 24 June 2005 - source Caravan Club Magazine August 2005). Whereas, depending where you live the typical price locally (North West) ranges from £0.899p/litre to £0.939p/litre. Meanwhile, petrol continues to out price Diesel in these countries whereas Diesel is some 3p/litre more expensive over here.

Considering that the £ and the _ have yet to achieve parity it makes fuel on the continent very cheap indeed in comparison.

Excuse my cynicism but has the Chancellor calculated the cost of diesel in return through mpg thereby striking and equitable tax benefit to the chancery for both diesel and petrol, along with taking a healthy wedge as the price of crude continues to rise.

Yours in caravanning,

A disgruntled Dave

 

[Lutz]

I can only speak for Germany but maybe the same holds true for some of the other countries, too. Here, the tax on diesel fuel is (only!) 0.61 Eurocents per litre whereas for petrol it's 0.81 for regular and 0.82 for super grade. On the other hand, road tax for diesel vehicles is considerably higher, so the breakeven point is roughly 10000km but this can vary quite a lot depending on engine size, exhaust emissions rating and, of course, relative fuel consumption.

 

[Lutz]

I can only speak for Germany but maybe the same holds true for some of the other countries, too. Here, the tax on diesel fuel is (only!) 0.61 Eurocents per litre whereas for petrol it's 0.81 for regular and 0.82 for super grade. On the other hand, road tax for diesel vehicles is considerably higher, so the breakeven point is roughly 10000km but this can vary quite a lot depending on engine size, exhaust emissions rating and, of course, relative fuel consumption.

Should of course have been Euros, not Eurocents

 

[Dusty1]

Blame Gordon Brown.

 

[emmitdb]

Dave,

Ive just spent the last twenty minutes trawling the net to try to get the figures but the best I could up with is 2003. For what its worth here it is.

The tax on a litre of derv(diesel) in 2003 was 51.82p and the tax on unleaded petrol was 48.82p so you would think it "fair" that diesel was more expensive,HOWEVER at 99.99%(recurring) of filling stations in this country, the only diesel you can get is Ultra Low Sulphur diesel. The tax on that kind of fuel is,45.82p per litre. In other words, the tax on the commonly obtainable derv is 3p per litre CHEAPER than petrol. Why is it then that us diesel users pay more. I'll tell you what my thoughts are. We are being ripped off. I have still to get a common sense answer to my question which is: Why does every supermarket in the land sell "City" Diesel when not every supermarket is in a City. My nearest Tesco, which is at Launceston in Cornwall only sells "City" Diesel when the nearest city is Plymouth 25miles away.

As stated at the beginning of this diatribe, the figures I have are for 2003 and were ontained from a fuel oil Company website. Just try to get the info from a Government website. Its more than difficult

 

[rob_jax]

Guys,

I live near Oxford, work in Rotterdam, and one of my part time jobs is to represent the UK in Europe at CEN TC19 (motor vehicle fuel standards - LPG, petrol, diesel and bio-fuels)

Today here in Rotterdam, the current litre price of petrol is around 1,30 Euro - about 89 pence, and diesel is around 0,99 Euro - about 68 pence.

Just like in Germany, the annual motor vehicle duty on a diesel car is considerably higher than a petrol powered car. The break even point in Holland is around 15,000 to 20,000km per year.

So yes, diesel is cheaper in Europe but the annual car tax is way more expensive. So over the whole year, a Dutch driver pays roughly the same as a UK driver.

Why is diesel more expensive pre-tax? The main reason is that in every litre of crude oil, around 27% is gasoline (petrol), and 13% is diesel. So without further (expensive) processing, the refinery produces about twice as much petrol per barrel as it does diesel. In simple terms, this means that diesel is twice the cost of petrol.

The Dutch government took the view that it is better to have low to medium mileage drivers use petrol and high mileage drivers use diesel, and they adjusted the duty / licensing accordingly.

Supermarkets decided to call Ultra Low Sulfur Diesel "City Diesel" because the lower sulfur content produces much less

smoke and particulate matter, and is much preferred for the environment. It doesn't mean you should only use it in cities.

Robert

 

[Lutz]

Guys,

I live near Oxford, work in Rotterdam, and one of my part time jobs is to represent the UK in Europe at CEN TC19 (motor vehicle fuel standards - LPG, petrol, diesel and bio-fuels)

Today here in Rotterdam, the current litre price of petrol is around 1,30 Euro - about 89 pence, and diesel is around 0,99 Euro - about 68 pence.

Just like in Germany, the annual motor vehicle duty on a diesel car is considerably higher than a petrol powered car. The break even point in Holland is around 15,000 to 20,000km per year.

So yes, diesel is cheaper in Europe but the annual car tax is way more expensive. So over the whole year, a Dutch driver pays roughly the same as a UK driver.

Why is diesel more expensive pre-tax? The main reason is that in every litre of crude oil, around 27% is gasoline (petrol), and 13% is diesel. So without further (expensive) processing, the refinery produces about twice as much petrol per barrel as it does diesel. In simple terms, this means that diesel is twice the cost of petrol.

The Dutch government took the view that it is better to have low to medium mileage drivers use petrol and high mileage drivers use diesel, and they adjusted the duty / licensing accordingly.

Supermarkets decided to call Ultra Low Sulfur Diesel "City Diesel" because the lower sulfur content produces much less

smoke and particulate matter, and is much preferred for the environment. It doesn't mean you should only use it in cities.

Robert

Yes, the breakeven point in Germany is also around 15000-20000km. 10000 was a misprint on my part. From what I've heard, the price is slightly lower in Germany than in the Netherlands but among the lucky motorists living closer to border than I do, there is a lot of 'fuel fillup' tourism to Luxembourg, Austria and the Czech Republic.

 

[rob_jax]

Yes, the breakeven point in Germany is also around 15000-20000km. 10000 was a misprint on my part. From what I've heard, the price is slightly lower in Germany than in the Netherlands but among the lucky motorists living closer to border than I do, there is a lot of 'fuel fillup' tourism to Luxembourg, Austria and the Czech Republic.

Lutz,

If I'm going that way I always try to fill the car at that first tank station in Luxembourg - I've never seen a bigger tank station than that place, it's just enormous.

The trick is to make sure you have enough fuel in the car to make it to that station, nearly every tank station within 50km has closed on this side of the border.

Robert

 

[Ron2]

We have only ourselves to blame for the cost of fuel, truck drivers and farmers put themselves out to try to reduce the cost of fuel but the general public did not support them as they should have done, it's a case of I'm alright Jack. A friend of mine works in a petrol station, at the time of the protest he had one chap in to put fuel into his car and all he could get in was .47 pence worth of fuel this was when you could only have

 

[Daventura]

Absolutely right Ron, the French or Americans would not allow their governments to rip them off. It needs everyone to use public transport for a month to test their seriousness in getting us out of our cars and using the bus/train etc. Its all one big con.

 

[Ron2]

Absolutely right Ron, the French or Americans would not allow their governments to rip them off. It needs everyone to use public transport for a month to test their seriousness in getting us out of our cars and using the bus/train etc. Its all one big con.

Just a point on that, I have just come back from the USA the cost of a GALLON of petrol out there is about

 

[Lutz]

Maybe it's of small comfort to you but even though fuel is slightly cheaper here in Germany than in the UK, the issues are the same and the motoring public is just as disgruntled. On the other hand we've got to face up to the fact that the Earth's oil resources are not limitless and we can't carry on using it up at current rates. I fear the Americans are not a particularly good example here.

 

[rob_jax]

Guys,

If you want to pick one price and complain because somewhere else you can buy the same goods at a lower price, you are missing the point.

The annual cost of running a car is the sum of fuel pricing, road fund license, insurance, depreciation, servicing and a load of other costs.

Petrol in the UK and Holland is almost the same price

Diesel in the UK is around 20 pence a litre more expensive than Holland

Diesel car road fund licence in the UK is a maximum of

 

[Lutz]

Just to add to Bob's facts about the cost of motoring in the Netherlands, here some details about road tax in Germany:

For a petrol engined car, the tax is between ₤4.69 per 100cc engine size for a car that meets EURO 4 exhaust emissions spec and a maximum of ₤17.64 per 100cc without any emissions control. For a diesel the equivalent rates are ₤10.74 per 100cc for EURO 4 and ₤26,14 per 100cc without any emissions control. There are further intermediate categories for EURO 1,2,3 etc. Vehicles over 2500kg GVW are rated 1 category worse than their actual emissions rating (for example, a heavy 4x4 which meets EURO 3 would be treated as a EURO 2 vehicle for tax purposes).

By the way, VAT in Germany is currently 16%. There is talk about raising it to 19% though.

 

[Barney2]

Guys,

If you want to pick one price and complain because somewhere else you can buy the same goods at a lower price, you are missing the point.

The annual cost of running a car is the sum of fuel pricing, road fund license, insurance, depreciation, servicing and a load of other costs.

Petrol in the UK and Holland is almost the same price

Diesel in the UK is around 20 pence a litre more expensive than Holland

Diesel car road fund licence in the UK is a maximum of

 

[rob_jax]

Just to add to Bob's facts about the cost of motoring in the Netherlands, here some details about road tax in Germany:

For a petrol engined car, the tax is between ₤4.69 per 100cc engine size for a car that meets EURO 4 exhaust emissions spec and a maximum of ₤17.64 per 100cc without any emissions control. For a diesel the equivalent rates are ₤10.74 per 100cc for EURO 4 and ₤26,14 per 100cc without any emissions control. There are further intermediate categories for EURO 1,2,3 etc. Vehicles over 2500kg GVW are rated 1 category worse than their actual emissions rating (for example, a heavy 4x4 which meets EURO 3 would be treated as a EURO 2 vehicle for tax purposes).

By the way, VAT in Germany is currently 16%. There is talk about raising it to 19% though.

Lutz,

Funny story - the Dutch government raised VAT (BTW) in Holland to 19.5% because they had heard that Germany was also raising VAT to the same level.

My Dutch friends raised the tax just a little bit early (one year ago) it seems.

Robert

 

[Steve L]

Ron's got it right about back bone.

Everytime the french want change they all get together and blockade the ports, blackade the auto routes etc and bring the counrty to it's knees.

If we all stopped buying fuel for a week and walked instead (not catch the bus or get a taxi)and the lorry drivers did the same as the french. I don't think you'd see Friday before there was a u turn on the taxation of the fuel which is crippling us the citizen, and also the fuel companies would be ashamed to admit to the Billions of pounds profit they make.

Another thing to remember is that the haulage firms are still working on rates ten years old and only make money when they travel loaded and today every kilo counts.

It's all about greed and us poor motorist's are the mice in the trap.

 

[RogerL_5041474]

Differences in tax structure account for some of the difference but the economic law of supply and demand accounts for the rest. Only in a communist country, and not all of them, does the selling price of an item bear a direct relationship to the production cost.

Essentially, it's because we're all prepared to pay such high prices. We winge about it a lot but carry on paying ever increasing prices.

 

[Award1]

Guys,

If you want to pick one price and complain because somewhere else you can buy the same goods at a lower price, you are missing the point.

The annual cost of running a car is the sum of fuel pricing, road fund license, insurance, depreciation, servicing and a load of other costs.

Petrol in the UK and Holland is almost the same price

Diesel in the UK is around 20 pence a litre more expensive than Holland

Diesel car road fund licence in the UK is a maximum of

 

[Ron2]

Differences in tax structure account for some of the difference but the economic law of supply and demand accounts for the rest. Only in a communist country, and not all of them, does the selling price of an item bear a direct relationship to the production cost.

Essentially, it's because we're all prepared to pay such high prices. We winge about it a lot but carry on paying ever increasing prices.

Hi

We just go back to my point that this country has no back bone, if we ALL stick together then and only then will we get anything done no matter what the issue, we in this country are being ripped off every day by big business and the politicians another prime example the exchange rate. The Euro every time you change a pound into a euro and then back the banks are at it big time but until we stand up and be counted then it's SHUT UP AND SIT IN THE CORNER while MR Brown takes the P--s even more, it's only very recently that he realised what the cost of fuel was then increased the price.

Enough from me.

 

[Ron2]

Guys,

If you want to pick one price and complain because somewhere else you can buy the same goods at a lower price, you are missing the point.

The annual cost of running a car is the sum of fuel pricing, road fund license, insurance, depreciation, servicing and a load of other costs.

Petrol in the UK and Holland is almost the same price

Diesel in the UK is around 20 pence a litre more expensive than Holland

Diesel car road fund licence in the UK is a maximum of

 

[rob_jax]

Agreed, the price of a barrel of crude oil is based on supply and demand. And cheap oil has given us the greatest economic party in history, and we don't want it to end.

In 2003, global demand grew by 2.5%

In 2004, by 3.4%

So far in 2005, growth in demand is 2.7%

Depletion of oil reserves and production is running at 5% each year

Supply is decreasing and demand is increasing, guess what's going to continue to happen to crude oil prices.

Robert

 

[rob_5060847]

All you diesel drivers could of course use veg oil, even if you pay the duty it's still not as expensive as diesel. It's also environmentally friendly as you're not depleting the earths oil reserves, in fact the only downside to using it that I can see is that the exhaust of your car ends up smelling like McDonalds

 

[Surfer]

And the duty on veggie oil is rather high anyway which goes to show that the government is not interested in a cleaner environment!