I would be interested to hear of anyone who has had this problem with their caravan, particularly if they have an explorer group caravan. Also have they been given the excuse that they must have kerbed it or dropped it down a pothole. Many thanks.
Creasing of outer panel and cupboards coming away from the roof
- Thread starter Huw_374475043
- Start date
heard this many times about this type of van the change of name is a clue.i know off a dealer who checks the said vans before they unload them and its said they have rejectid over 60 per cent off new vans for damp and build quality not my own theory
creasing of exterior panels is a definite clear indication that the caravan has been subjected to an impact greater than that of which the caravan is designed to take. in my 17yrs experience of repairing caravans this is normally assigned to a term loosely called kerbing which accounts for potholes, or even speed bumps at speed. basically an impact sends a shock up through the side of the caravan and results in exterior panel creases, furniture movement and in some cases furniture facia panels splitting.
I have seen an older caravan develop creases and wrinkles in the outer skin, and it was associated with rotting structural timbers in the wall sandwich - a very expensive rebuild
Hi thanks for your comments. However the caravan has not been kerbed or potholed and this happened as a progression from cupboards starting to come away from the roof at the start of the 2 week holiday to cupboards moving up to 4mm by second week and then finally on the last day on return trip on French autoroute the creasing and cracking occured. I have owned for the last 15 years a Knaus twin axle and before that A Sterkeman twin axle and they showed no evidence of this. The Knaus did countless journeys to the Alps over rutted snow and to the gravel roads of Finland. I still have it and it is in perfect condition. Are these British built vans that you have worked on?
I would suggest that IF kerbing or a road pothole caused this sort of damage then the van was not built suitable for its purpose,& if as said by the OP this is not the case & the manufacturer cannot find such evidence to prove it was the cause Ie. damaged wheel rim,distorted chassis ect then the OP's claim of "unfit for purpose" should be upheld.
A check on the chassis section bolt torque would be in order as this is not an unknown cause of this sort of problem.
you only have to watch Bailey's pegasus road test video to see what sort of conditions they expect a van to be subject to in NORMAL use.
A check on the chassis section bolt torque would be in order as this is not an unknown cause of this sort of problem.
you only have to watch Bailey's pegasus road test video to see what sort of conditions they expect a van to be subject to in NORMAL use.
I agree. When we took our caravan to Iceland we covered several hundred miles on rough unsurfaced roads and it didn't develop any structural problems involving creases, etc. The only thing that did happen was that the washroom door came adrift from one of its hinges.
I have watched the Bailey video and agree with you comments. According to my sources from within the British caravan industry this is their standard get me out of jail statement. I will check the chassis bolts. it doesn't give you much confidence in the manufacturers when the handbook displays the incorrect maximum nose weight of 100kgs and in fact it should be 150kgs, the tyre pressures show as 40 psi in the handbook but on delivery were 49psi and if you use the standard calculation they should be somewhere in the middle.
Thanks for comments. We are soon to take a trip to Iceland less the caravan. But last November we were driving on very very very rough Australian outback roads in the Great Dividing Range (southern section) and couldn't believe our eyes when coming in the opposite direction was a 4x4 towing a caravan and it was bouncing from side to side, pitching up and down. The road was rain washed, rutted, boulder strewn and had no surface dressing at all. They use a grader to level it and not very often.
I have seen people and on one time stopped a young man levelling a twin axle with the corner steadies,he said that he had always done it that way,I then showed him the effect it had on the sidewalls and rear panel,there were several creases and and splits in the corners,he was amazed at the damage he had done,his wheels on one side were of the ground.
Are you sure the noseweight should be 150kg max., Huw? Unless it's a really big twin axle, most caravan chassis have a 100kg limit.
Yes - it is a big twin axle 1950kgsMTPLM although the handbook says 1900kgs and the hitch maximum (when you remove the cover) is 150kgs. The noseweight empty is over 100kgs. Its a Buccaneer Caravel Purchased in March from Caravanland of Banbury
I too have seen this practice. However I use the more sensible and correct method of blocking the wheels on the low side.
This may be an entirely wrong thesis - but our caravan had a fault with the suspension/axle (ALKO chassis, brand new) which was noticed when one side of the caravan appeared lower than the other and the gap between tyre and caravan body was noticeably less. We hadn't towed the van anywhere other than home from the dealership and it was taken back to a more local agent. The fault was found to be the rubber 'triangle' inside one component of the axle, which had twisted and caused the body to drop on that side. The only noticeable furniture 'drop' was that the seal around the toilet pulled away from the wall, and the seal around the shower tray also broke away from the wall. The axle was sent back to Alko and replaced (with a second faulty one), and then replaced again after the van had been taken to the Alko workshop in the midlands on the back of a low loader.
There was no creasing to the body or other change, but it might just be worth having a look at whether the caravan body is sitting level on the chassis. We hadn't towed the van more than forty miles when we noticed the problem. But I would have thought that towing with this sort of axle/suspension problem could welllead to the cupboards pulling away from the wall on one side and eventually to the bodywork creasing on one side.
There was no creasing to the body or other change, but it might just be worth having a look at whether the caravan body is sitting level on the chassis. We hadn't towed the van more than forty miles when we noticed the problem. But I would have thought that towing with this sort of axle/suspension problem could welllead to the cupboards pulling away from the wall on one side and eventually to the bodywork creasing on one side.
Just to add, it appears yours was a newish van. This took place a few years ago, but we were informed by Alko that they had discovered a whole batch of faulty rubber insertions as a result of our problem, and a subsequent visit to the Alko factory by my OH.
You can see the three triangular rubber sections here on the Alko page http://www.al-ko.co.uk/edit/files/support/CaravanChassisBook.pdf on page 3 - and it does suggest that these take out the 'bump' when you go over obstacles.
Definitely worth checking up on.
You can see the three triangular rubber sections here on the Alko page http://www.al-ko.co.uk/edit/files/support/CaravanChassisBook.pdf on page 3 - and it does suggest that these take out the 'bump' when you go over obstacles.
Definitely worth checking up on.
Hello Huw,
I have already given my 5 penny worth about the headline problem, and by the sounds of it my suggestion does not apply here.
However in one of your further comments you make some quite surprising claims about weights and loads. It is not entirely clear from your postings what the situation is, but let me offer some general advice regarding the limits you can work to.
In the case of a caravan, the permissible limits for nose and MPTLM are set by the caravan manufacturer not the chassis manufacture. And those are the ones you should be adhering too. It may be necessary for a caravan manufacturer to use some components from an external supplier that are actually rated above the need for the caravan design. Any design is only as good as its weakest link, and if you ignore the caravan manufacturers figures you may well end up over stressing other aspects of the design.
The nose weight is not a fixed value, as it changes according to how you load the caravan, It is necessary in most caravans to deliberately change the nose weight by loading to bring into the permissible range. An empty caravan is an unnatural condition, so the empty nose load should not be assumed to be a legal one.
The MPTLM of a chassis may well be different to the designed limit for the whole caravan. In this case it is the caravan manufactures limit that must be used even if it differs from the chassis manufactures limit. The caravans plated limit is the one supplied by the caravan manufacture.
I have already given my 5 penny worth about the headline problem, and by the sounds of it my suggestion does not apply here.
However in one of your further comments you make some quite surprising claims about weights and loads. It is not entirely clear from your postings what the situation is, but let me offer some general advice regarding the limits you can work to.
In the case of a caravan, the permissible limits for nose and MPTLM are set by the caravan manufacturer not the chassis manufacture. And those are the ones you should be adhering too. It may be necessary for a caravan manufacturer to use some components from an external supplier that are actually rated above the need for the caravan design. Any design is only as good as its weakest link, and if you ignore the caravan manufacturers figures you may well end up over stressing other aspects of the design.
The nose weight is not a fixed value, as it changes according to how you load the caravan, It is necessary in most caravans to deliberately change the nose weight by loading to bring into the permissible range. An empty caravan is an unnatural condition, so the empty nose load should not be assumed to be a legal one.
The MPTLM of a chassis may well be different to the designed limit for the whole caravan. In this case it is the caravan manufactures limit that must be used even if it differs from the chassis manufactures limit. The caravans plated limit is the one supplied by the caravan manufacture.
i would say 80% British and 20% foreign. it is especially prone on twin axles with the entrance door in front of the axle.
it is a promotional video specific to the pegasus. no other uk built caravan currently goes through such a vigorous testing as the pegasus did
Hi,
we too have recent creasing on our caravan - 2007 model Coachman, but we wouldn't say that it has had anything other than normal use including potholes (unavoidable and frequent on British roads-unfortunately - and the dreaded speed bumps - but our caravans should be robust enough to cope with these?)
we too have recent creasing on our caravan - 2007 model Coachman, but we wouldn't say that it has had anything other than normal use including potholes (unavoidable and frequent on British roads-unfortunately - and the dreaded speed bumps - but our caravans should be robust enough to cope with these?)
Sorry for delay in responding. I see you have a similar problem without the wall creasing. Have your dealer used the same lame excuse of rough roads?
I am not in N Ireland but would love to visit one day
Many thanks for your comments and your observation. Our caravan is on a BPW chassis and the attitude of the body to chassis looks OK. I have measured the floor to wheel arch distances and although they are not equal they are within 1 cm of each other.
Thanks for your comments. This new Buccaneer Caravel is built on a BPW chassis which employs a similar system to the Alko but instead of using three rubber inserts it uses four and the tubes are four sided with a four sided insert. I am not sure if that would make the suspension stiffer or whether they compensate for more rubber inserts by using a softer rubber material.
Thanks for you information. The difficulty we have is establishing what are the correct values re MTPLM, MIRO and nose weight.
Handbook Promo info On caravan
Noseweight 100kgs 150kgs 150kgs
MTPLM 1900kgs 1900kgs 1950kgs
MIRO 1667kgs 1618kgs 1668kgs
If the hitch weight is 100kgs then when the Caravan was picked up from the dealer it's hitch weight will have been exceeded because they placed two gas bottles and the spare wheel in the front locker box taking the hitch weight to 130 kgs. They, the dealer, say the handbook has a misprint. I would say it was an authoring error.
The problem we have is ascertaining what are the correct figures. Do Explorer group even know?
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