we came back from a wknd away 13 sept 09 parked in my spot quite easily as there where no caravan,s either side ,when back up last tuesday off nyts 6.08am to take my battery off to charge didn,t notice the damage then but when i took the battery back up i noticed the damage ! the van next to me had come back and where his front leg winders were directly opposite the damage was on my van ,went to the site owner they said because they havent got it on cctv and he didn,t report any accidentle damage or when they contact him he doesn,t admit to any damage then they cant do anything !!!! to which i,m not happy with i pay £250 per year i dont expect it to get damaged in storage i might aswell leave it on the street..... any advice welcome thanks tj
damage to caravan while in a gold cossoa site
- Thread starter tj1
- Start date
Sorry to hear about your van I hope it is not too serious.
However, you cannot state exactly when the damage occurred and as you did not see it happen, you cannot be 100% sure it was the van next to you. I agree it is probable, but unless you have a witness{pipe delimiter}?????????
Similarly even if the site did have CCTV it is unlikely it would be looking exactly at your van. They are tending to look for intruders, not close range damage. I am sure the owners do walk around the site frequently, but probably do not examine every van, unless it is something like a broken window for example.
I would suggest having a go at the owner next door, the site will give you his name and see if he will at least admit he did it. Otherwise it is an insurance job depending on the cost to repair. By the way do not decide to 'get your own back' with a slippery wrench, as sure as Hell, you will be seen.
Cars get scratched in car parks and doors can get dented, but if the perpetrator has no integrity, it is difficult, but certainly very annoying.
However, you cannot state exactly when the damage occurred and as you did not see it happen, you cannot be 100% sure it was the van next to you. I agree it is probable, but unless you have a witness{pipe delimiter}?????????
Similarly even if the site did have CCTV it is unlikely it would be looking exactly at your van. They are tending to look for intruders, not close range damage. I am sure the owners do walk around the site frequently, but probably do not examine every van, unless it is something like a broken window for example.
I would suggest having a go at the owner next door, the site will give you his name and see if he will at least admit he did it. Otherwise it is an insurance job depending on the cost to repair. By the way do not decide to 'get your own back' with a slippery wrench, as sure as Hell, you will be seen.
Cars get scratched in car parks and doors can get dented, but if the perpetrator has no integrity, it is difficult, but certainly very annoying.
thanks scotch lad my van wasn,t damaged when i came back to the site as i said the van next to me was not there and i was well within my lines he however was more to my side , i got the site owner to come and have a look at my van to show him the damage i then got my wheel brace to show him how the damage was done , but as i said they haven,t got nothing on cctv so i,m waiting to hear ..... and no i wouldn,t damage his van back !!!! BUT if i see him in the compound then ??????????????? tj
If you see him in the compound then............you will approach him in a civilised manner, explain the situation and ask him if he can offer any explanation. If he is a real a.....e then you will probably achieve nothing, but if he has any integrity at all then at the very least you will get a very red face. If he knows, you know, than he will be a little worried about his van. By the way, are we talking serious body damage or minor dents here?
If you have no witness's what can you do,if he says he didnt do it you will feel more wound up by him not admitting the truth.
If you upset him by accusing him what other damage could he do when you are not around?
If you upset him by accusing him what other damage could he do when you are not around?
minor dents !!! but as dean said even so they wasn,t there before he parked next to me , i just dont understand why he didn,t leave a note or something ?? as we use the van nearly every fornight ( rallying ) i know that the damage was NOT there when we brought the van home . what,s the point of paying
Hello tj
I totally sympathise with you.
I believe any storage yard that claims to offer security, and that controls who has access to their yard, is effectively deciding who and who cannot have access. That decision means that if the site owner believes that a person is going to steal or damage property they would refuse them entry, conversely it also means that anyone they authorise access to is believed to be safe.
If a person who is given access and then does steal or damage property, then the site owner is implicated as they deemed them as safe to enter.
The big problem for you though is how to prove the damage to your caravan was inflicted in the storage yard.
I totally sympathise with you.
I believe any storage yard that claims to offer security, and that controls who has access to their yard, is effectively deciding who and who cannot have access. That decision means that if the site owner believes that a person is going to steal or damage property they would refuse them entry, conversely it also means that anyone they authorise access to is believed to be safe.
If a person who is given access and then does steal or damage property, then the site owner is implicated as they deemed them as safe to enter.
The big problem for you though is how to prove the damage to your caravan was inflicted in the storage yard.
thanks for your comments, john my van was damaged in the compound when i took it back on the 13sept there were NO dents by the battery box ,the van next door was not there then he brought his back on the 22nd sept they have that on cctv my van or his van hav not movd since then.... directly opposite his front doorside leg steady are the dents on my van which the site owner has seen hopeing to hear from them by sat tj
Hello tj,
Simply repeating your version of events is not proof. It requires some agreed evidence that cannot be refuted.
Can you prove the damage was not present when your placed the caravan in storage? Was the caravan inspected by the site owner when stored?
Can you prove that you did not inflict the damage yourself? (I am not suggesting that you did, but it may be that some might be trying an insurance scam)
I honestly believe that these super storage sites will have to introduce two important features to protect customer property.
Firstly caravans will only be moved in and out of the storage compound by a site employee, to avoid the possibility that a customer may damage other customers property.
and Secondly, that all sides and roof of the caravan will be photographed and recorded for obvious damage to enable the condition of the caravan be compared when it is retrieved from storage.
Simply repeating your version of events is not proof. It requires some agreed evidence that cannot be refuted.
Can you prove the damage was not present when your placed the caravan in storage? Was the caravan inspected by the site owner when stored?
Can you prove that you did not inflict the damage yourself? (I am not suggesting that you did, but it may be that some might be trying an insurance scam)
I honestly believe that these super storage sites will have to introduce two important features to protect customer property.
Firstly caravans will only be moved in and out of the storage compound by a site employee, to avoid the possibility that a customer may damage other customers property.
and Secondly, that all sides and roof of the caravan will be photographed and recorded for obvious damage to enable the condition of the caravan be compared when it is retrieved from storage.
Tj,
As John has mentioned, just repeating your version is not going to achieve anything. Ideally the other owner will admit liability and pay for the repairs, however as he has obviously not volunteered to do that then you have the very difficult job of trying to prove his negligence. Without a witness who can state he actually saw the damage being caused, I am afraid you haven't a leg to stand on and will either need to pay the repairs yourself, or claim on your insurance. You have no claim against the owners of the site but of course, you can move your van to another site if you wish. You are in the same position as someone who has their van on their drive at home, and it is damaged while they are either at the back of the house, or out. Unless you have actual legal evidence, then sorry, it is a tough world.
To try an answer John's other points regarding CASSOA sites as someone who has used one for the last 5 years, with I may add, no problems whatsoever.
It is impractical to have a site employee to move vans in and out as many owners wish to arrive and depart outside opening hours, especially in the winter months when it is uneconomic to have someone available all day. In my site, if you wish to arrive/depart outside working hours, a key is given on submission of your site identity card and if it is not returned you are charged for the replacement, and do not get that concession outside hours again. Also as the site I am on has over 350 vans it would be congested in the summer months at weekends when sometimes 10 or more owners are moving in and out at the same time. To achieve that objective would mean a significant increase in site fees in terms of labour costs and equipment. I cannot see people sitting waiting for up to an hour just to get their van. Just think of the time it would take to go to your spot, lift the legs, hitch the van and then drive it back to the front gate. Then multiply that many times, and you are back of the queue??
Photographing a van every time you entered the site would be again impractical. Someone could be sitting clicking away all day at peak times. I suspect most owners would eventually decide it was just too much hassle. The downside would be many sites would close. John may feel that is no bad thing if in his opinion they are not doing what he feels is correct, but then the facility would likely be withdrawn from the market, and many owners are already finding problems with getting a place in the first instance.
Damage on sites can happen, and not just CASSOA sites. Even the local farmyard, or as mentioned your own driveway may not mean the van is immune to passing scratches. But the very fact that vans in storage sites are usually only going in, or out and are static the majority of the time usually means the chances of damage are very much lower.
At the end of the day where you store your van is your choice, unless like me you have no alternative but to use a storage site.
As John has mentioned, just repeating your version is not going to achieve anything. Ideally the other owner will admit liability and pay for the repairs, however as he has obviously not volunteered to do that then you have the very difficult job of trying to prove his negligence. Without a witness who can state he actually saw the damage being caused, I am afraid you haven't a leg to stand on and will either need to pay the repairs yourself, or claim on your insurance. You have no claim against the owners of the site but of course, you can move your van to another site if you wish. You are in the same position as someone who has their van on their drive at home, and it is damaged while they are either at the back of the house, or out. Unless you have actual legal evidence, then sorry, it is a tough world.
To try an answer John's other points regarding CASSOA sites as someone who has used one for the last 5 years, with I may add, no problems whatsoever.
It is impractical to have a site employee to move vans in and out as many owners wish to arrive and depart outside opening hours, especially in the winter months when it is uneconomic to have someone available all day. In my site, if you wish to arrive/depart outside working hours, a key is given on submission of your site identity card and if it is not returned you are charged for the replacement, and do not get that concession outside hours again. Also as the site I am on has over 350 vans it would be congested in the summer months at weekends when sometimes 10 or more owners are moving in and out at the same time. To achieve that objective would mean a significant increase in site fees in terms of labour costs and equipment. I cannot see people sitting waiting for up to an hour just to get their van. Just think of the time it would take to go to your spot, lift the legs, hitch the van and then drive it back to the front gate. Then multiply that many times, and you are back of the queue??
Photographing a van every time you entered the site would be again impractical. Someone could be sitting clicking away all day at peak times. I suspect most owners would eventually decide it was just too much hassle. The downside would be many sites would close. John may feel that is no bad thing if in his opinion they are not doing what he feels is correct, but then the facility would likely be withdrawn from the market, and many owners are already finding problems with getting a place in the first instance.
Damage on sites can happen, and not just CASSOA sites. Even the local farmyard, or as mentioned your own driveway may not mean the van is immune to passing scratches. But the very fact that vans in storage sites are usually only going in, or out and are static the majority of the time usually means the chances of damage are very much lower.
At the end of the day where you store your van is your choice, unless like me you have no alternative but to use a storage site.
The other point I forgot to add, is what if you wish to do a small job on your van? Possibly adding bedding etc. Then you would have to get the van brought out, take it away, do your task, and then return it. Or does someone have to escort you to the stowing spot and sit there while you work away, just in case you damage another van? I think not.
People have to accept responsibility for their actions. Those that do not are a pain in the a..e, but we have to live with it.
People have to accept responsibility for their actions. Those that do not are a pain in the a..e, but we have to live with it.
thanks for all the comments i,ve been at this site for the last 6 years no trouble at all . i have been offered to be moved to another pitch , which i might take thanks again ... PS lucky we didn,t buy a new van in sept my mrs would have throttled the man . tj
Hello Scotch lad,
You are quite right that this issue is not just a matter for CaSSOA sites, but anywhere where customer property is stored in so called secure facilities.
It is perfectly possible for a site owner to restrict access times or to make it by appointment only. A small tractor or Mr Shifta type unit could be used to move the caravans in and out.
There would have to be a marshalling yard outside the compound, and small jobs could be done in that.
As for photographing, digital or even video cameras are now so cheap that they could be mounted on the gates to the compound, and activated to record as the caravan passed by.
Pie in the sky? - No - there are car parks that operate on this principal already - and I am sure that UK storage sites owners will take this seriously if customers stood up for their rights.
As for no claim against the site owner, if the customer can prove beyond reasonable doubt that the damaged occurred whist the caravan was in the compound under the care and security of the site owner, then the owner is liable for failing to protect customer property even if it is caused by another customer or person in the compound.
The problem is that most customer believe the false statement that property is stored at the owners risk. - That has been shown to be an unsustainable position where one of the key elements of a storage specification is security.
You are quite right that this issue is not just a matter for CaSSOA sites, but anywhere where customer property is stored in so called secure facilities.
It is perfectly possible for a site owner to restrict access times or to make it by appointment only. A small tractor or Mr Shifta type unit could be used to move the caravans in and out.
There would have to be a marshalling yard outside the compound, and small jobs could be done in that.
As for photographing, digital or even video cameras are now so cheap that they could be mounted on the gates to the compound, and activated to record as the caravan passed by.
Pie in the sky? - No - there are car parks that operate on this principal already - and I am sure that UK storage sites owners will take this seriously if customers stood up for their rights.
As for no claim against the site owner, if the customer can prove beyond reasonable doubt that the damaged occurred whist the caravan was in the compound under the care and security of the site owner, then the owner is liable for failing to protect customer property even if it is caused by another customer or person in the compound.
The problem is that most customer believe the false statement that property is stored at the owners risk. - That has been shown to be an unsustainable position where one of the key elements of a storage specification is security.
I was under the impression that Gold CaSSOA sites generally pull the vans out to a collection yard, to avoid this type of issue, if this is not the case at the moment on the site you are on perhaps it is something for you to suggest to the site owners, as it should stop this type of thing happening.
You must be joking, the gold site I'm on does absolutely nothing for their money, in fact, I can't remember the last time I saw a member of staff. The only reason most of the people who store there do so,is because we can't find anywhere else.
Steve W
Steve W
the site i am on is also a caravan park aswell . you can go in and out whenever you want it has a barrier and electric gates to which we have a electronic keyfob for, it also has water & elec .i choose this one because of the extra security (gold approved last year ) but there two others within a mile of each other which are not approved cassoa sites thanks for all the replys tj
What you must not forget is that CaSSOA is a trade organisation. It is set up, run and paid for by the site operators. It is not consumer champion, and it has no teeth if you have a problem with a site.
Some CaSSOA sites are certified by various insurance companies, but yet again it offerers no guarantee of the level of service or procreation your property will receive.
Some CaSSOA sites are certified by various insurance companies, but yet again it offerers no guarantee of the level of service or procreation your property will receive.
OOPS
Aren't spell checks wonderful! Please read 'protection' in the last line of my post, but its really up to you.
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