Damp help

[redjeff1980]

Owner of Abi Ace Globetrotter 1992
Hello,
New to this. Little bit about myself.... I have been caravanning a lot back in my youth due to my parents being hooked, though apart from the odd static caravan holiday, not in my adult years so it's safe to say I know a little bit but not a lot.
We are having a new addition to our family and so I have been looking for a budget caravan (very budget) for cheap holidays. As caravans are generally quite an outlay, we had pretty much given up until a friend of our offered us a caravan for the price of a tyre...obviously I jumped at it.
There is a reason for this cheap caravan which is, it is riddled with damp. At this point I should mention that my profession is carpentry so I was aware of the work required.

A brief detail of the extent of damp.
The wall panels by the front widows are attached to framework which is attached to the outside skin, this is so rotten that the framework is pulling the outside skin in thus creating a large void where the windows close onto....lots of rain will get in there!
There are some water marks around some other rear windows though all the window seals are perished so this maybe just a seal replacement?
The shower tray has a split in it which isn't awful but can a repair be done?
The floor seems a little spongy though the span between the galvanised chassis underneath is substantial so I don't know if this is normal?

I am aware to make the caravan watertight is to remove all awning rails and reseal, new window seals and obviously to refix the framework to the front windows.
What I am aware of and the reason for this post, is this really worth repairing? I do not want to pay out more than what the caravan is worth, while also having to work hard repairing it. I am unsure of the construction and the cost of those parts.

What would you experienced caravanners do? If it's a repair, are there any cheap suppliers? I habe just found some window seal which equate to £200 for all the windows....already a large amount.

Lorne

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello Lorne,

Welcome to the forum.and I am sure you will find lots of useful information if you ask and dig a bit.

1992 Van equates to 22 years old. Some caravans soldier on for 25 even 30 years if well looked after, so it may be worth repairing your own van, but What I cant tell you is how much it will cost or what it will be worth at the end of the repair.

In you favour are your skills as a carpenter, which is good because your caravan is essentially a wooden frame with skins attached. However the structural strength of the caravan is derived from the fact the skins are pinned to the frames which creates a stressed skin box construction. Another integral part of the strength is derived from some of the internal fittings, so don't be tempted to change the layout.

Only use rot proof treated wood to replace or rebuild, to avoid future problems. Just as in house construction, if you find a section of rot infested wood, you must make sure you remove all of the affected material to prevent re-infestation.

With regards the floor, it depends on its construction, but I would expect at 1992 it to be a foam sandwich. It may simply started to delaminate, in which case there are well known remedies. If its beam and board constructions then you will be well placed to decide the best course of action - Either way it makes sense to sort it so it doesn't niggle you latter on.

Search this forum for threads on delamination, and I pretty sure you can find kits at a number of caravan dealers if you need one.

 

[redjeff1980]

What a fantastic reply. Thank you!

 

[colin-yorkshire]

What a fantastic reply. Thank you!

hi redjeff1980 , it is only what one would expect from our Prof.
if I may expand a little, I have done many such repairs over the years, and they are well worth doing. should be a breeze for a carpenter, with all the tools, as John said make sure all the old rotten wood is removed, and replaced with new treated timber, you can use rough cut it's cheaper and buried inside the wall so no one will see it.
you can also add strengtheners in the area of the sagging walls with biscuit joints but dont go overboard as this adds weight. to the van.
you ask how much the van is worth, well at present a spare tyre, how much when it is done probably a grand or so for a damp free van, but that is not the point, repaired it will give you many years of service and that is priceless.
that window seal seems a bit Ott to me my local van shop sells it by the meter.
and as for the shower tray depends how picky you are if it is GRP and that is likely on a 1992 van it can be repaired with glass mat and resin it wont look pretty but will make it water tight otherwise it is a new tray or second hand one if the breakers have one.
good luck with the repair let us know how it goes.

 

[JamesH]

I have a Swift 1991 van and have found this company has come up trumps when all else has failed. They may have a shower tray , you never know.
http://www.caravanbreakers.net/

 

[redjeff1980]

You guys are great on here.
Thanks James for that link, I will have a look later!
Colin and ProfJohn:: Just to expand a little on the construction. Am I right in thinking that the framework which the wallboards are attached to do not actually fix to the outer skin? I assumed that they may of been stuck with mastic or an epoxy type glue?
The window seals I found were online and price per meter, they were aprox £11 including the screw cover strip.
The wallboards seem extremely expensive, im struggling to find any below £50 inc delivery.
This is my concern really, if the materials were cheap enough I'd be more that happy to do it, , after all its a nice project.
Thanks again
Lorne

 

[RogerL]

Ace changed to sandwich construction in '81/82 - the foam core is pressure bonded to the aluminium on the outside and the wallboard on the inside - the floor foam core is pressure bonded to plywood both sides. There was some wood framing within the bonded sections but this has been reduced over time.

No repair to the walls can replicate the original pressure bonding, so each part of outer skin, foam and wallboard will need separating (if it isn't already!) and then replacing and glueing into place.

 

[redjeff1980]

Thanks Roger.
The construction that I can see by a brief look to the front window, was the outer skin which looks like either plastic or fiberglass with a wooden framework and then the 3mm wallboard. I can't see any foam, so would this mean there has already been an attempted repair?

Lorne

 

[colin-yorkshire]

Thanks Roger.
The construction that I can see by a brief look to the front window, was the outer skin which looks like either plastic or fiberglass with a wooden framework and then the 3mm wallboard. I can't see any foam, so would this mean there has already been an attempted repair?

Lorne

hi lorne, not really could just mean the van is of an earlier construction good news for you as the repair could be far more straight forwards. but you will not know until you bite the bullet and remove the inner wallboards. look for signs of water marks this will tell you where the water is getting in.
regarding your remarks about the cost of wall boards, well when I did a similar repair a few years ago proper wall boards were not available so I use thin ply instead and after treating covered these with vinyl wallpaper and could not tell the difference

 

[RogerL]

Thanks Roger.
The construction that I can see by a brief look to the front window, was the outer skin which looks like either plastic or fiberglass with a wooden framework and then the 3mm wallboard. I can't see any foam, so would this mean there has already been an attempted repair?

Lorne

Not necessarily - ABI used wood framing in the window apertures - so if you lift the plastic/rubber edge trim you will be likely to see wood.

O'Leary Motorhomes are a good source of spares and repair materials, including wallboard http://www.olearymotorhomes.co.uk/

 

[Damian]

All the windows, doors and roof vents will have a wood surround to provide rigidity when fixing them.

 

[Gagakev]

You guys are great on here.
Thanks James for that link, I will have a look later!
Colin and ProfJohn:: Just to expand a little on the construction. Am I right in thinking that the framework which [/color]the wallboards are attached to do not actually fix to the outer skin? I assumed that they may of been stuck with mastic or an epoxy type glue?
The window seals I found were online and price per meter, they were aprox £11 including the screw cover strip.
The wallboards seem extremely expensive, im struggling to find any below £50 inc delivery.
This is my concern really, if the materials were cheap enough I'd be more that happy to do it, , after all its a nice project.
Thanks again
Lorne

Hi lorne, when I did my damp repair on a 1995 Abbey the outer skin was stapled to the frame work ) around the edges only) and I also used sikaflex to bond them together, Damp Repair
Also go with RogerL advice check out Olearys they have every theing you need, contact them and ask for sample wall board so you can match yours up.

 

[redjeff1980]

Thanks very much for all your help so far guys.
It's hard to get some time to have a good look at it with work commitments but I did have a few minutes today.
The extent of the rot is worse than I thought. The main area is the front, the way Abi constructed the caravan is a bit odd, instead of the front section wrapping itself around the side covering the join to the side, the side is just butted up and then sealed with the awning rail...recipe for damp.
Anyway the sides at the front have become detached from the inside batten so water would of been streaming in, unfortunately the water has also got to the floor and rotted it through, this is the same both sides. I had a closer look at the other part of the floor where it felt spongy and I can see that underneath is rot free, though because of the span of the chassis and where the floor is joined, this seems to be the spongy feeling. My opinion is to leave it as it doesn't seem rotten.
How easy would the floor be to replace, and where could I source the parts for it?

lorne

 

[colin-yorkshire]

Thanks very much for all your help so far guys.
It's hard to get some time to have a good look at it with work commitments but I did have a few minutes today.
The extent of the rot is worse than I thought. The main area is the front, the way Abi constructed the caravan is a bit odd, instead of the front section wrapping itself around the side covering the join to the side, the side is just butted up and then sealed with the awning rail...recipe for damp.
Anyway the sides at the front have become detached from the inside batten so water would of been streaming in, unfortunately the water has also got to the floor and rotted it through, this is the same both sides. I had a closer look at the other part of the floor where it felt spongy and I can see that underneath is rot free, though because of the span of the chassis and where the floor is joined, this seems to be the spongy feeling. My opinion is to leave it as it doesn't seem rotten.
How easy would the floor be to replace, and where could I source the parts for it?

lorne

hi, from your description it seems the damage is quite extensive however all is not lost.
quick question!! if the floor of a house you were working on had dry rot in the corner of an upstairs room. how would you cure it!!!!!. well the same goes for a rotten caravan floor. the only difference is the position of the corner steadies, some are supported by the chassis at the corners and some are bolted to the floor.
if your type is the former you can just cut out the affected area, and replace with new flooring,
if it is the latter then you can do the same after unbolting the steadies, but the floor corners would need supporting. one way of doing this is to replace the affected part and then using some 1in marine ply a foot bigger than the repair, glued and screwed from underside before replacing the steadies.
a similar fix could be used on the springy joint from underneath.
of course this would add weight to the van but the repair would be stronger than the original.
we still don't know the type of sandwich used because until you get the internal boards off the full extent will not be known. however it seems similar to the construction on the fleetwood i repaired some years ago. after removing the boards and cutting out the insulation I was left with a flimsy rotten frame where the joint was, after carefully taking out the internal wood frame and section of awning rail from the outside, cleaning the joint from the inside I sealed it with flashband then eased in the new spars over the joint (this is used to screw the awning rail to) and after replacing the insulation [if this breaks up] wikes do a thin insulation board that can be used instead, and glued to the outside skin finally bonding the wall board to the repaired area, In my case this was thin 3ply. finished off with vinyl wallpaper.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello again Lorne,

I'm sorry your investigation has apparently shown the extent of damage is greater than you hoped.

As I wrote earlier if you have issues with the floor it makes a lot of sense to deal with them now rather than later. If you don't sort it now, firstly it will niggle you every time you feel it give, and secondly what you feel now will most likely get worse as the cause may still be present and active, making the job bigger and annoying even more that you have for a second time got to dismantle parts of the caravan to get to it.

There is a third reason, The majority of caravans constructions do not use the best quality of wood, and the repeated removal and re insertion of screws, nails etc in the same place usually means the strength of the fixing is weakened, leading to rattles, creaks and in the worst scenario parts coming apart.

I'm a great believer in doing it right first time, it can save a lot of hassle and future expense. ( I only wish the caravan manufactures used the adage when building their products).