I have just been to the van on site and checked for damp throughout the van, the only bit I found was on the inside of the outside locker lid for a storage area, I checked if it had penetrated the floor and looks like its ok. I am wondering whether this will dry our naturally in the Summer or whether I need to replace the panel, looks like it is made of the same material as the walls of the van, if so does anyone know where I can purchase a panel board and realise I would probably need to cut one out and fit. The inside panel seems to be part of a plastic frame that is easily unscrewed so would not be a problem to replace. Expect the rubber seal is faulty so will need to think about replacing that. Many thanks.
Damp
- Thread starter Holidaysforever
- Start date
Firstly what make of van have you ,is the damp a front wet locker? Or does it give you access to under one of the front seats? Cant quite make out your description you are describing , sorry. but a bit more info will be helpful.
If it's a normal locker door as per say the battery box then it will have a mastic seal against the outer skin of the van, this may have broken down and will need removing and re-sealing, dont try and seal over the top of old mastic, this has to come off as the new will not stick to it.
If you find the source of the damp first then you may be able to dry out the inside over a period of time and may not have to do a repair
Have you a meter reading % of the damp you found?
Is there a window above the damp area, is the damp coming from there downwards.
If it's a normal locker door as per say the battery box then it will have a mastic seal against the outer skin of the van, this may have broken down and will need removing and re-sealing, dont try and seal over the top of old mastic, this has to come off as the new will not stick to it.
If you find the source of the damp first then you may be able to dry out the inside over a period of time and may not have to do a repair
Have you a meter reading % of the damp you found?
Is there a window above the damp area, is the damp coming from there downwards.
Hi, its an Avondale, this is an outside locker lid under the front seats which is a storage area. It has a rubber gasket around it so guessing the water is getting in past the rubber. Guess I may have to wait and see what happens when the warmer weather comes. Am very impressed with the quality of the floor, looks like it is plywood with a decent coat of paint on top. The board panel was very wet one end, was quite soft but only on the inside of the locker lid, obviously metal on the outside.
Hi HF, by lid I guess you mean locker door, makes sense now, sorry I don't have experience with a rubber seal only against the van, or are you talking about the seal on the actual door? If so I dont suppose it would be that expensive to replace so i would change it and then monitor it for a while. good luck.
Cannot remember whether the gasket is actually fitted to the van or the door. so you think that the panel may well dry out come the Summer maybe, perhaps wait and see what happens. Thanks.
Holidaysforever said:
Hi HF, as I said in my first reply you will need to find and fix the leak first and monitor from there.
Hi , you appear to be saying that the dampness is in the wall board on the back of the exterior locker door ??
if so Like gagakev I would suspect the rubber seal around the locker door ,But it could also be the sealant around the locker door frame. what I would do is use gaffer tape along the top of the door frame as a temporary measure so that you can identify whether its the rubber door seal or the sealant around the frame that is causing the problem. what I have done in the past is to use the damp meter prongs to pierce the vinyl board in a pattern of every 1-2 inches over the area of dampness this allows the damp to escape & the board to dry out & as the inside of the door is under the bed any marks would not be seen.
you could also try treating the rubber seal with silicone spray or olive oil
if so Like gagakev I would suspect the rubber seal around the locker door ,But it could also be the sealant around the locker door frame. what I would do is use gaffer tape along the top of the door frame as a temporary measure so that you can identify whether its the rubber door seal or the sealant around the frame that is causing the problem. what I have done in the past is to use the damp meter prongs to pierce the vinyl board in a pattern of every 1-2 inches over the area of dampness this allows the damp to escape & the board to dry out & as the inside of the door is under the bed any marks would not be seen.
you could also try treating the rubber seal with silicone spray or olive oil
I had this exact issue once. The panel is usually cut from the piece cut out of the main wall for the locker. When I examined the locker door, I saw that in its closed position, the channel section design allows no way out for any water that gets in, resulting in the wood inner panel rotting out. When you dismantle for your repair, drill some holes in the lower edge only wherever you think water might collect.
My Luner Clubman SB is 1 year old within 7 months, front window cracked, window stays would not support open window, cupboard door catch mis aligned, and window catches so loose would not prevent drafts coming into van. This was dealt with on warrenty. Just had first service reported wet locker box cracked, and damp along the total near side at ground level ranging between 27% and 55%. Around the high marker light 60%. The dealer assures the repair will sort out the problems but so busy it could be June before he can do it. This delay is due to paperwork getting permission of Luner and then ordering parts. So busy dealing with damp caravans hence the delay.
One wonders what to do, being very disappointed, angry at the delay, and feeling helpless to expedite repairs. I suspect 'leaking Luner' has earned this tag.
One wonders what to do, being very disappointed, angry at the delay, and feeling helpless to expedite repairs. I suspect 'leaking Luner' has earned this tag.
Wildenb said:
Where? I had a new front abs panel put on my Lunar last year because of a 2 inch crack radiating from the pivot bolt at the bottom of the gas strut supporting the locker door. The pivot bolt had rusted because non-rust products were used and as the hole was tight the extra diameter due to rust split the hole. The van was nearly 4 year old but the work was done under warranty. :cheer: Yes, it did take a long time for Lunar's approval, then 2 or 3 months for the parts to arrive.
It also had a new rear end panel fitted at the same time due to a crack and grp delamination high up.
Wildenb said:
If the caravan has failed and is not the result of damaged, then clearly it is not of merchantable quality and must have had inherent faults from the outset. The fact the faults have been accepted by the dealer whom I guess is your seller opens the door to having these issues sorted out under your statutory rights which in your case come under the Consumer Rights Act.
I suggest you google Consumer rights act on the (Which?) consumer rights web site to see what your rights are and how to access them.
Crucially your right to a repair with minimum inconvenience is not dependant on the manufacturers agreement. It is the legal responsibility of your seller.
Thank you for replies, I have been in contact with Trading Standards who say the because of the time in ownership and the dealer has offered to repair it, then if the repair proves unsatisfactory then I can reject the caravan. I tried yesterday to get the dealer to make a provisional booking, which they refused. Seems they sub-contract these repairs have to wait for the report on the repair/ damage then write to Luner for permission to repair, then order parts which can take six weeks. Of course they are booked up to April so far. I have written to Lunar expressing my concerns I await a reply (if it comes). At the level of damp I suspect it's a fault in building but obviously how do you prove it.
I don't know how to further approach them as it appears their administrative processes are set in stone. I would value your advice because as the van is subject to the UK weather it can only get worse if I am forced to wait till possibly June
I don't know how to further approach them as it appears their administrative processes are set in stone. I would value your advice because as the van is subject to the UK weather it can only get worse if I am forced to wait till possibly June
I should have said the Trading Standards said I have to give the dealer the opportunity to repair in the first instance
Hello Wildenb,
Trading standards have given you the correct information. But I think you have not understood the implications of the differences between a manufacturer's warranty and your statutory rights enshrined in the CRA.
These two processes may seem similar on the face of it but they are legally entirely separate, and crucially the law says a manufacturer's warranty cannot (must not) affect your statutory rights. Sadly the buying public are all too often kept in the dark about their rights, as this tends to suit the seller. Under the CRA it is the seller that is always responsible for the goods they sell, and they are liable if the goods are faulty or fail unreasonably.
What most dealers fail to do when a customer reports faulty goods, is to ask if you want the remedy to be done under the Manufacturer's warranty or the CRA, becasue if its the CRA, the dealers profit margin is in jeopardy where as if the work is done under the manufacturers warranty the cost of parts and the majority of the labour costs are covered by the manufacturer. so the dealer will naturally prefer to push you down the manufacturers warranty route.
You may think this is only fair, but the seller has failed a legal duty by selling faulty goods. If they want to avoid after sales costs they should ensure the goods the sell are defect free in the first place.
Critically when you reported the faults to the seller did you specify how you wanted them to be handled? If you just said they're warranty faults the dealer may have assumed you meant having them sorted under the manufacturer's warranty. The consequence of this is that the seller has to wait for authority to carry out repairs under the terms of the manufacturer's warranty terms and conditions. The down side to this from your point of view is the work is now scheduled by the manufacturer and their time scale.
If you make it clear you hold the seller responsible under the CRA, then manufacturers opinion holds no sway, and the dealer is required to proceed with repairs as soon as is reasonably possible to inconvenience the customer as little as possible. This include the cost of transporting the faulty items to and from the place of repair.
The CRA does not seek to give an unfair advantage to either party, but the product you have purchased has failed either because of poor design, materials or manufacture, and that is breach of the CRA. The seller has therefore failed in their duty, and must expect to be held accountable for their failing. How the seller reclaims the costs from the manufacture if of no concern to you and it should not prevent or affect the remedy.
Trading standards have given you the correct information. But I think you have not understood the implications of the differences between a manufacturer's warranty and your statutory rights enshrined in the CRA.
These two processes may seem similar on the face of it but they are legally entirely separate, and crucially the law says a manufacturer's warranty cannot (must not) affect your statutory rights. Sadly the buying public are all too often kept in the dark about their rights, as this tends to suit the seller. Under the CRA it is the seller that is always responsible for the goods they sell, and they are liable if the goods are faulty or fail unreasonably.
What most dealers fail to do when a customer reports faulty goods, is to ask if you want the remedy to be done under the Manufacturer's warranty or the CRA, becasue if its the CRA, the dealers profit margin is in jeopardy where as if the work is done under the manufacturers warranty the cost of parts and the majority of the labour costs are covered by the manufacturer. so the dealer will naturally prefer to push you down the manufacturers warranty route.
You may think this is only fair, but the seller has failed a legal duty by selling faulty goods. If they want to avoid after sales costs they should ensure the goods the sell are defect free in the first place.
Critically when you reported the faults to the seller did you specify how you wanted them to be handled? If you just said they're warranty faults the dealer may have assumed you meant having them sorted under the manufacturer's warranty. The consequence of this is that the seller has to wait for authority to carry out repairs under the terms of the manufacturer's warranty terms and conditions. The down side to this from your point of view is the work is now scheduled by the manufacturer and their time scale.
If you make it clear you hold the seller responsible under the CRA, then manufacturers opinion holds no sway, and the dealer is required to proceed with repairs as soon as is reasonably possible to inconvenience the customer as little as possible. This include the cost of transporting the faulty items to and from the place of repair.
The CRA does not seek to give an unfair advantage to either party, but the product you have purchased has failed either because of poor design, materials or manufacture, and that is breach of the CRA. The seller has therefore failed in their duty, and must expect to be held accountable for their failing. How the seller reclaims the costs from the manufacture if of no concern to you and it should not prevent or affect the remedy.
Wildenb said:
You don't have to prove anything regarding the damp. If there is damp then the fault is with the caravan manufacturer unless the user has caused the fault, which in your case would seem very unlikely. Damp should not occur and as Prof has said the Seller is responsible under UK consumer law.
Thank you both for your concise advice. I had no idea there was a problem when it went for service. The amount of damp shocked me and the assessment etc and potential warrenty issue was put to me, certainly no choice was offered. If it's not to late I shall send registered letter tomorrow insisting on CRA repair, knowing the potential delay will make things worse. I have enough ammunition in your King responses and will let you know how I get on.
Wildenb said:
Damp is a caravaners worst nightmare. I too felt absolutely gutted when my first caravan went in for service and was shown to have damp. Although it was second hand it was covered by a good insurance warranty and the repair was faultless. If it's any consolation every caravan that I have had has shown damp. After a brand new Series 5 Bailey had to have its front and end panels replaced in years 2 and 3 I have always had the vans checked for damp every 6 months in addition to my own visual checks. Caught early it's not such a problem, and I am sorry to say that eventually you get used to it! Good luck
Hello Wildenb,
I am pleased you are considering exercising your statutory rights. I hope it does produce a faster response, but please do not expect the impossible. Remember that for a major job such as your the parts may still need to come from the manufacturer, and there may still be a delay if they are not in stock.
Do review the information about your rights on sites like Which? and the Money Saving Expert. These sites also provide example form letters.
Another lever may be, that if you used a finance package to purchase the caravan, under section 75 of the consumer credit act, the finance house shares the responsibility with the seller for the quality of the product purchased. Even if you just used a credit card to cover the deposit the credit company shares the responsibility. If you are still paying for the caravan, then contact the lender and ask them to intervene.
As others have pointed out, Damp in caravans is an owners nightmare, and the fact that damp has been discovered can feel like a kick in the stomach. Yes it is serious, but in many cases it's not the end of the world. A newish caravan with a successful damp repair will certainly be as good a caravan for your use, and if the repair has been done properly, there may even be no cosmetic evidence left. - but if you are asked if the caravan has suffered damp you must tell the truth.
Fortunately if the first repair fails to cure the problem, you now have the right to a full market value refund for the caravan. Bear in mind that you have had some use of the caravan, and as such its full market value is not what you paid for it. - As I wrote previously the CRA is not a charter to get more than you are entitled to its about being fair.
I am pleased you are considering exercising your statutory rights. I hope it does produce a faster response, but please do not expect the impossible. Remember that for a major job such as your the parts may still need to come from the manufacturer, and there may still be a delay if they are not in stock.
Do review the information about your rights on sites like Which? and the Money Saving Expert. These sites also provide example form letters.
Another lever may be, that if you used a finance package to purchase the caravan, under section 75 of the consumer credit act, the finance house shares the responsibility with the seller for the quality of the product purchased. Even if you just used a credit card to cover the deposit the credit company shares the responsibility. If you are still paying for the caravan, then contact the lender and ask them to intervene.
As others have pointed out, Damp in caravans is an owners nightmare, and the fact that damp has been discovered can feel like a kick in the stomach. Yes it is serious, but in many cases it's not the end of the world. A newish caravan with a successful damp repair will certainly be as good a caravan for your use, and if the repair has been done properly, there may even be no cosmetic evidence left. - but if you are asked if the caravan has suffered damp you must tell the truth.
Fortunately if the first repair fails to cure the problem, you now have the right to a full market value refund for the caravan. Bear in mind that you have had some use of the caravan, and as such its full market value is not what you paid for it. - As I wrote previously the CRA is not a charter to get more than you are entitled to its about being fair.
Thank you to those who responded, the advice and support proved invaluable. I have now resolved the issues. As you know I could not face the caravan standing out in the weather until June at least before repairs began. After writing to the dealers they offered to take the van back at a market value. Offered a deal which I was happy about and upgraded to a 2017 new van. They also agreed to swop the mover over for free, and refunded £100 of my very recent service. I shall pay more attention to damp issues getting the new van tested six monthly. Many thanks again.
Wildenb said:
Well done and thank you for the feedback. Its great when the advice we give proves to be useful. Its also good to see a positive outcome from what was obviously a very difficult position you were in. It shows how the legislation does actually work. Spread the word and dont be afraid to use it remember it applies to all retail purchases including second hand.
Don't forget there is a button at the bottom of comments where you can record your vote of thanks.
A very good result, which shows that the Consumer Protection system does work. Although some companies take more persuasion than others. After problems with my daughter's top spec Sony tv which was only one month out of its 2 year warranty a well known high street retailer wasn't interested. Even wanted something like £90 to examine it and then told me that the money wasn't refundable in any event. So we got our own report at £60 and together with a letter spelling out our proposed actions under Consumer Law they eventually offered a 2/3rds refund as the tv was deemed non repairable. This was accepted, but since then all of our electrical purchases for the family have been from John Lewis, who have an excellent reputation if things go wrong. But the pressure from the teenies who were tv-less for 3 weeks was immense!!
Yes the experience taught me a great deal. Especially not accepting what I am told by dealers. Also importantly as was pointed out clearly that warrants are a issue between the dealer and manufacturer. Not as we may assume our protection from problems which may occur in goods purchased. I am grateful for the advice I was given it helped a great deal.
Wildenb said:
Hi wildenb,
From your comment above is sense you still haven't understood the details of the interactions.
The CRA is very clear that it only act within the contract that you have with your 'seller'. This description is chosen over 'dealer' becasue with more expensive items you may choose to use a finance package, in which case under the Consumer Credit Act, the financier is jointly the seller as you are paying them.
If the seller undertakes to repair a product, but they cant do it themselves, they will sub contract the work to another organization, even if its the manufacturer, they are still the seller's subcontractor.
Under contract law the main contractor is responsible for all the actions of their subcontractors, and if you have a problem with a subcontractor as you have no contract with them, your route to remedy is to the Main contractor.
With the CRA the seller is your contractor which is why the manufactures view is irrelevant.
The Manufacturers warranty is also a contract, between you and the manufacturer. Technically the dealer is not involved as they are not the party to the contract. The dealer will be a subcontractor to the manufacturer, which is why the manufacturer has to verify the warranty claim. It could be argued the dealer is an agent of the manufacturer which may allow them some autonomy in the warranty decision process, but fundamentally it is still the manufacturer who calls the shots.
Its a wake up call to all customers to consider how they get problems sorted out.
Obviously I have not understood the legalities or terminology, however I have a result. I retract of course my previous comment but still remain grateful for mall the support. I will keep your coments for future reference should I ever get into [problems again.
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