Disappointing visit to the NEC

[Ogre]

Went up to the NEC Exhibition on Wednesday. Loads of extremely expensive Motorhomes (which we aren't interested in at all), and lots of shiny new caravans and accessories. All very nice until we started to look at the caravans.

What a disappointment next years (2008) models are. Virtually all of them had the entry door straight into the main seating area, meaning that privacy is not good in the summer months, and draughty in the winter. Bedrooms right next to cookers, HUGE showers taking up almost a sixth of the van, radios hidden in cupboards, no clocks, cheap tacky fittings, and all the rest of it.

We said to one of the salesmen up there that there was only one van we'd have swapped our existing van (an Elddis Avante) for in the whole show, and that was a Fleetwood Heritage....but at over £21000....

Caravan Designers, what have you been doing this past twelve months? Why have kitchens for example gone all fake marble and stainless steel. After all, you're hardly likely to want to do Masterchef in a caravan?

And plugs? Virtually every kitchen had only ONE 3 pin plug, even on the very expensive models.

Nice exhibition, but I reckon the manufacturers want to start talking to the owners of caravans. Preferably before they start building them.

So here's my question?

What's important to YOU in a caravan which should be fitted as standard, and what could you live without? Our bugbear is the shower. We NEVER use it, as we don't believe in introducing water into a caravan, having had one damp nightmare with this exact situation. So we always use the site showers.

 

[Tram]

An interesting post Ogre, we haven't been to the show but all other reports, including those in the media, seem to think it is wonderful. We're with you on the shower, never use ours (it has never worked from new, too long a pipe run from the external pump)but what's the point when there is a superior one nearby, so we are pleased that our shower/washroom is small.

What would we like in a new caravan?

bigger bunk beds instead of a large shower room.

My wife would like an adapter tube for the blown air heating so when there is no electric hook she can dry her hair.

The oven is redundant, a grill is fine for us.

Reliable gas appliances, unless I've been unlucky.

Better tyres so a higher MTPLM can be granted then a larger payload can be carried if and when required. (yes i know the towcar limits it but that's a choice you make).

Will that do for a start?

 

[Lee.C]

Hi All

Must say what gets my back up is when people complain about various layouts if you want a smaller shower then buy a van with one. We have a van with a bigger shower and it suits us. Ok Ogre you dont seem to like THE bigger shower but what about people wo use a cl they may prefer one. With most showers being in a sealed cubicle whats the problem with water in the van. Then radios hidden in cupboards was more of a security thing which I think does looks neater as well. No clocks, in the day of mobile phones do we really need a clock , our kids used to take the battery out every night as they could not stand the ticiking! Caravans are not just made for one particular perrson so you either like them or you don't.I do agree though about the lack of sockets in most van but thats probably due to being on low amps on most sites

 

[RichardS1]

While I would always agree that peoples opinions will always be different I think caravan design has progressed well over the last few years. Especially when you bear in mind that in a confined space they will always be something that will have to be a compromise.

 

[Ogre]

Only our opinion of course, but based on our actual experience of a leaking shower which caused terminal structural damage to our last caravan.

 

[Colinn]

Reading this shows what a diverse lot we are. Ogre doesn't want a shower - we wouldn't be without one (we don't share facilities at home, so why when we're in the van?)! Tram doesn't want an oven - we do (we cook great meals at home, and being away in the van doesn't change that).

In truth, there is an incredible range of options out there and if you are prepared to look, everyone can find something to suit their needs. We, for example, have just found a used bargain that suits us perfectly (yes Ogre, a Heritage!)

But why limit yourself to buying new? Someone has to, of course, but if it must be you, it limits your choice - and costs far more in up-front price and back-door depreciation...!

 

[CarolineSimon]

We have just returned from the show and agree it was a real disappointment.

Far too many very expensive Motorhomes and it seemed less vans than last year?

I also noticed the lack of accessory stands which after speaking to various stand owners seemed to be down to the huge charges per stand that the NEC/Show were charging.

ALCO stand was useful, they are starting to fit the ATC trailer system as an after market fit from November this year at their factory in Warwickshire. We were quoted

 

[Pat_374304630]

View the same topic on the data website for more views

 

[jennifer_374227268]

Just back from show at weekend, this was the first caravan show we had been to so it was all new and exciting for us, although we had a great day looking at all the models the only one we would consider changing our caravan for was the Fendt, as soon as we walked into it we fell in love with the layout and space, only problem is its the 650 model and at 8' wide its not legal, even though the sales man reasurred us that it was not a problem we didn't buy, would like to check it out abit further for ourselves.

Did anyone esle look inside the fendt? what did you think?

 

[Joyce_5063910]

Hi Jennifer

We have a Fendt caravan and this is one of many Don and I have had.

We find them much better than the English caravans but would buy British if we could find a caravan build as well.

We bought ours in Germany but we are pleased that they are now been shown at the shows here in the UK. Joyce

 

[Moth_5041363]

We went on Saturday/Sunday, this was our first time at the show, we were looking to buy the classic layout 5 berth double at front and back with a side wash room,with the shower seperate to he loo, but there was not much to choose from,a lot of the vans were fixed bed.we did find the van we wanted and were quite happy with the deals. I was very diserpointed with the lack of accessorie stall's,and the one's that were there were not cheap at all. some stalls had nothing to do with caravanning/motorhomeing at all. you would think that it would be a good time to buy bbq's and awning's ect

 

[vernon]

Manufacturers will never hear what the public want as their only contact with us is via the salesman who is only interested in making a sale.

I had a conversation on the Avondale stand concerning the new Dart.

Me, "Why do you still fit the hot water switch up at the front under the double bed!"

Salesman, "Because it is near the water heater!"

Me "It is very difficult to switch off when the double bed is made up!"

Salesman "Leave the heater switched on then!"

Me, "You can't always do that in France when you are on a 6 amp supply!"

Salesman, "Well, if you will go to France!"

With that he walked off.

 

[Joyce_5063910]

Hi Moth

It is very expensive to have a stand at the NEC and that is why many small accesssory companies have found that they cannot justify being there.

When you are paying thousands for the stands and on top of that you have to allow for enough itmes to sell during the week it is very very expensive.

We did have a stand selling BBQs next to us and because of lack of sales he is not attending again, so that is one more down.

Joyce

 

[BRIAN_374324359]

We went on Saturday/Sunday, this was our first time at the show, we were looking to buy the classic layout 5 berth double at front and back with a side wash room,with the shower seperate to he loo, but there was not much to choose from,a lot of the vans were fixed bed.we did find the van we wanted and were quite happy with the deals. I was very diserpointed with the lack of accessorie stall's,and the one's that were there were not cheap at all. some stalls had nothing to do with caravanning/motorhomeing at all. you would think that it would be a good time to buy bbq's and awning's ect

I would be very interested in the one you chose because we are looking for something similar. However we would want the shower to be in a pod so that it is completely water proof. The maintenace people at our carvan sales sight say they our constanly replacing shower boothe because of leakge prolems.

Brian J

 

[Moth_5041363]

Hi Moth

It is very expensive to have a stand at the NEC and that is why many small accesssory companies have found that they cannot justify being there.

When you are paying thousands for the stands and on top of that you have to allow for enough itmes to sell during the week it is very very expensive.

We did have a stand selling BBQs next to us and because of lack of sales he is not attending again, so that is one more down.

Joyce

Thats a great shame that everthing has to be priced so high, that the small companys cannot complete.

 

[Moth_5041363]

We went on Saturday/Sunday, this was our first time at the show, we were looking to buy the classic layout 5 berth double at front and back with a side wash room,with the shower seperate to he loo, but there was not much to choose from,a lot of the vans were fixed bed.we did find the van we wanted and were quite happy with the deals. I was very diserpointed with the lack of accessorie stall's,and the one's that were there were not cheap at all. some stalls had nothing to do with caravanning/motorhomeing at all. you would think that it would be a good time to buy bbq's and awning's ect

we went for a ace jubilie viceroy and the shower is seperate and it has proper lined walls, not wallpaper

 

[Ogre]

After speaking to the sales guys on the various stands, the message was always the same.

Question: Can you build me a van with an extra cupboard instead of the shower?

Answer: Not really, because we don't make them that way.

Now I don't accept that. It's still basically the manufacturers telling us what we're going to have, rather than us suggesting to them what we want and like. I mean, how difficult would it be to build a number of vans with a shower, and a number without a shower, and extra storage space?

I would suggest that it's as easy as building some with bunks, and some with fixed beds, as happens now.

Come on you manufacturers. LISTEN to your customers, and give us what we want, rather than trying to force feed us products that we don't like.

End result was that none of you sold us a van. Had just one of you been able to fit cupboards instead of a shower,(in exactly the same space), you'd have sold us a van.

Not everybody wants a shower in a caravan, but in the case of the larger vans, which ours is, you don't get any choice about it. You are stuck with it whether you like it or not.

We're now going to have ours converted. Shower out, and two wardrobes and four cupboards with a branch from the blown air heating in to keep clothes aired.

 

[Ogre]

Hi Moth

It is very expensive to have a stand at the NEC and that is why many small accesssory companies have found that they cannot justify being there.

When you are paying thousands for the stands and on top of that you have to allow for enough itmes to sell during the week it is very very expensive.

We did have a stand selling BBQs next to us and because of lack of sales he is not attending again, so that is one more down.

Joyce

It's the same reason that the trade interest in most of the bigger Shows of all types has declined in years.

Stand prices are just crazy for smaller manufacturers. Maybe the idea is to keep the stands for the "Big boys" only?

Pity though, because the smaller stands were full of interesting and innovative ideas, and we usually spent some dosh, and brought a few things back with us.

Surely it's better to have a full exhibition with lots of exhibitors, than acres of empty halls, resounding to the sound of Joe Public walking out without buying anything.

 

[Jimbob1]

Hi Ogre,

I note that you say that you are coverting your shower are and putting in shelves and 2 wardrobes shorely this is going to play havoc with your noseweight!!!

 

[Ogre]

Hi Ogre,

I note that you say that you are coverting your shower are and putting in shelves and 2 wardrobes shorely this is going to play havoc with your noseweight!!!

Not according to the coachbuilding firm who are doing the conversion for us.

Basically, the shower, shower-tray and taps etc will be taken out, along with all relevant pipework, supports, duckboard etc.

Weight of all this will then be checked, and the new units built in to exactly the same weight using suitable matching timber and panelling.

From a noseweight point of view it shouldn't make much difference.

We aren't planning on towing it with full cupboards anyway. It's mainly to provide extra storage space.

 

[Pelyma1]

We went to Earls Court a couple of years ago and asked every manufactuerer if they could do a van with alde heating, 2 bunks at the rear as well as a side dinette, decent shower and toilet and an overall good quality feel. Vanmaster thought I couldn't afford it - their loss and everyone else said no, except for Fleetwood. We sat down with them in a Heritage 640ES lost the rear fixed bed added the bunks and side dinette and voila IMO the perfect van for us. Sure it cost more than the standard van and it took a bit longer to get it but 18 months down the line we are still pleased as punch. We mainly use CLs so cookers, showers etc are important and some manufactuerers do listen!

 

[Brum1]

Ogre

Not sure why you assume that your needs coinside with those of all caravan buyers.

Many of us enjoy the convenience of a large shower.

I ordered a Fleetwood Heritage 640 CB at the show last February and took delivery in May. It suits the needs of the entire family. There is ample storage so why anyone would want yet another large cupboard instead of a shower is totally beyond me but I respect your views but really take exeption to your belief that everyone wants what you do.

Brum

 

[Geoff_5120515]

Perhaps if the caravan designers, instead of putting their efforts in coming up with fancy 'new' designs and layouts for each and every year, that they took a year off from this activity and tried to make their designs more 'modular' so that you could specify what you wanted in the spaces available and offered these as Customer options. Much like the optional seating arrangements at the front end of the van. I was looking at the 2008 version of our current van (Lunar Lexon EW) and the most glaring ommission was no booze cabinet!! Also why make the front seats/beds unequal lengths? My wife and I are both 6 foot tall and this is only going to lead to arguments was to who has the 'longer' side - sorry - why should I always have the short one!

 

[Ogre]

Brum: I'm not assuming that our needs are what everybody else wants. I've never stated or implied that.

I'm just saying that it would be nice to have more choice from the manufacturers. You can get a van with bunks, so why not one with no shower? I honestly think that if some of these manufacturers actually went out and stayed in their own caravans, they would change their designs quite substantially.

I think the industry is 'in denial' that there's anything wrong with it. A dangerous thing to do. Look what's happened to the Motor and Motorcycle industries in the UK, who thought (wrongly) that they were invincible, and that their product's were the bees knees!! They ignored Joe Public, who now buys Japanese, French, Korean and German cars.

Just like we can buy more and more foreign caravans!!! The ball is very definitely in their court, but they are hiding it under the turf. No good. No good at all.

Salesmen can shrug it off all they like (as they did at the NEC), but at the end of the day, the CUSTOMER is King, and always has been. The cheque book stayed in the pocket, and the pen never got used. THAT is the crux of it.

As I pointed out earlier in the post, our reluctance to have another van with a shower, is due to our last van having suffered terminal damage due to leaking water. This totally destroyed the flooring and wall, and went undiscovered for many many months, despire regular servicing. It wrecked the van. No way will we risk having or using a shower in a van again.

If you disagree about showers, that's fine, it doesn't bother me, and I accept that YOU may want one in your caravan, as may many others. We don't, but try buying or being able to order a large van (ours is a twin axle 5 berth) without one. You can't.

To us, the space is better used for utility. After all, we have showers on every site we stay on. Invariably, much better, hotter, and more powerful showers too. It's part of the site fee, so we use them. More to the point, I don't want 1/6 of the caravan taken up with a great big shower that we'll never use.

It's down to choice. Choice that the industry aren't giving us.

 

[Brum1]

Ogre

One man's meat as they say and I respect your views but my family could never do without an on board shower.

We regually rally on fields that only have a tap for fresh water and an open man-hole for "the other" and love every minute of it.

Our shower is enclosed within a fully enclosed cubicle therefore (I hope) that we will not suffer any leakage.

Another point for the record is that when we have stayed on large sites with full facilities we have found that the showers have seldom met the standards or convenience of that in our own van.

Brum